Author |
Message |
Tfrasc Samba Member
Joined: February 27, 2020 Posts: 1
|
Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 1:46 pm Post subject: Are there Syncro's without 4WD? |
|
|
Recently talked to a seller who claims to have a '87 Syncro. They're saying that it has a manual 4-speed plus low gear (no locking rear or front).
I was under the impression that all Syncro's had 4WD, but they're saying there are different types of Syncro's. They said it used to have the Syncro sticker on it, and that it rides a little higher (almost looks like it has a lift) and that was exclusive to the Syncro. It's really nice and only has around 100,000, but it definitely has the price of a Syncro.
Are they mistaken or am I? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
mdub Samba Member
Joined: February 05, 2020 Posts: 48 Location: Bellingham, WA
|
Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 2:15 pm Post subject: Re: Are there Syncro's without 4WD? |
|
|
All syncros were full time AWD, not all came with locking differentials. Sounds like a non locker model is what you’re looking at. _________________ '86 Syncro / Reimo Poptop / EJ22 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
tjet Samba Member
Joined: June 10, 2014 Posts: 3533 Location: CA & NM
|
Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 2:16 pm Post subject: Re: Are there Syncro's without 4WD? |
|
|
All syncros are 4wd (or all wheel drive). An option for a syncro was a locking diff in the front & rear. This eliminated the "differential" feature of the front & rear diffs for mud, etc. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
MarkWard Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005 Posts: 17153 Location: Retired South Florida
|
Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 2:17 pm Post subject: Re: Are there Syncro's without 4WD? |
|
|
All Syncros were 4 wheel drive. In North America many had a rear differential that could lock. Slip between front and rear was handled by a Viscous Clutch in the front differential. They had a 4 speed transmission for the street and a granny or low gear so technically it was a 5 speed.
Now years later there are a lot of variations and plenty to read. No knob, 1 knob, 2 knobs, and even 3 knobs. _________________ ☮️ |
|
Back to top |
|
|
10degnorth Samba Member
Joined: March 07, 2018 Posts: 472 Location: Bend, Oregon
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
vanis13 Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2010 Posts: 3099 Location: ABQ NM USA.... Except when not
|
Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 2:22 pm Post subject: Re: Are there Syncro's without 4WD? |
|
|
Tfrasc wrote: |
Recently talked to a seller who claims to have a '87 Syncro. They're saying that it has a manual 4-speed plus low gear (no locking rear or front).
I was under the impression that all Syncro's had 4WD, but they're saying there are different types of Syncro's. They said it used to have the Syncro sticker on it, and that it rides a little higher (almost looks like it has a lift) and that was exclusive to the Syncro. It's really nice and only has around 100,000, but it definitely has the price of a Syncro.
Are they mistaken or am I? |
You mention sticker and height...how about drivetrain? is that 4wd? (and does it work as it should?)...also the rear fuel tank usually means syncro. _________________ 83.5 Westy with Subaru 2.5, 4 spd manual, center seat, COLD A/C on 134a!, Winter camp heated with an Espar B4 gasoline furnace
www.SuperVanagon.com - some stuff I make |
|
Back to top |
|
|
SyncroHead Samba Member
Joined: May 23, 2005 Posts: 1145 Location: Northern Nevada
|
Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 2:30 pm Post subject: Re: Are there Syncro's without 4WD? |
|
|
Sometimes people have been known to put a Syncro transmission into a 2WD van. This would give the van a low ("Granny") gear and potentially a locking rear differential if the transmission were equipped with that.
Jim Davis _________________ "A Vanagon? It's not a car or a van. It's a hobby!"
Check out:
www.VANAVATION.com
www.SyncroSafari.org and
www.Vanagons.org
sphet wrote: |
I have *no* idea what the previous owner carried in his Westy... angry donkeys? |
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Syncro Jael Samba Member
Joined: December 19, 2013 Posts: 2204 Location: Utah
|
Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 2:31 pm Post subject: Re: Are there Syncro's without 4WD? |
|
|
Mine came stock as a "Non-Locker" Syncro Westfalia built in 1987.
A couple bags of money and a bunch of labor and now it is a triple knob.
The only true 4WD Syncro's have the viscous coupler removed and a solid shaft in it's place. This takes away from the AWD capabilities of the van but has better off-road performance. I like the Sport VC that was installed. I can still use AWD when driving on paved roads in winter conditions.
A decoupler is added to "De-Couple" the front differential. This saves stress on the entire drivetrain and transaxle.
The most expensive component to replace on a Syncro is the transaxle. So if buying, be prepared! $$$ _________________ 1987 Syncro Westfalia Hightop - NAHT
Subaru EJ25 Forged Frankenmotor, Triple Knob.
Jael = (Mountain Goat) |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Wellington Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2004 Posts: 1889 Location: Montreal
|
Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 2:34 pm Post subject: Re: Are there Syncro's without 4WD? |
|
|
I think a while back, Rocky mountain westy offered a kit, changed the Syncro trans into a 2WD trans, and gave you the granny rear 2WD, and you could have a locker in that.
So factory Syncro was 4wd, but aftermarket let you put a granny in a 2wd |
|
Back to top |
|
|
D Clymer Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2005 Posts: 2978 Location: Issaquah, WA
|
Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 3:00 pm Post subject: Re: Are there Syncro's without 4WD? |
|
|
My first Syncro was a "rare" 2WD Syncro with granny gear and locker.
It had a viscous coupling where the silicone oil had leaked out, so it wasn't engaging the front wheels to any useful degree. Still had pretty good traction with the rear diff locked. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
RainierSyncro Samba Member
Joined: February 26, 2013 Posts: 809 Location: Seattle
|
Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 3:13 pm Post subject: Re: Are there Syncro's without 4WD? |
|
|
The big tell is you fill the gas tank at the rear of the van and not by the passenger door.
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
campism Samba Member
Joined: September 07, 2007 Posts: 4492 Location: Richmond VA
|
Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 6:58 pm Post subject: Re: Are there Syncro's without 4WD? |
|
|
Welcome! Look underneath (or have the seller send pix) and see if there's a driveshaft going forward from the rear transaxle to a front differential. Usually there will also be a framework of square tubing alongside to protect that driveline. It's possible that the driveshaft has been removed for some reason but if the front diff is there it's a Syncro or a conversion by someone. _________________ '87 Westy in Wolfram Grey Metallic |
|
Back to top |
|
|
4Gears4Tires Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2018 Posts: 3047 Location: MD
|
Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 10:05 am Post subject: Re: Are there Syncro's without 4WD? |
|
|
Syncro Jael wrote: |
The only true 4WD Syncro's have the viscous coupler removed and a solid shaft in it's place. This takes away from the AWD capabilities of the van but has better off-road performance. |
What? The only true 4wd? Hah. No way.
4wd, 4x4, awd.. etc are all marketing terms and they can be used interchangeably.
That said, I ascribe to the personal opinion that 4x4/4wd refers to solid axles with or without the ability to select 2wd or 4wd and awd refers to cv axles front and rear. Even this is a bit muddy since a lot of suvs have solid in the rear and cv in the front, generally I will still call those 4x4. I do this for clarity of speech among friends but in no way would say anyone is wrong for disagreeing.
But to say the only true 4wd.. that's quite the definitive statement for marketing terms that have no consensus behind them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-wheel_drive _________________ '87 Syncro
Ferric Oxyhydroxide Superleggera Edition |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Syncro Jael Samba Member
Joined: December 19, 2013 Posts: 2204 Location: Utah
|
Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 10:32 am Post subject: Re: Are there Syncro's without 4WD? |
|
|
4Gears4Tires wrote: |
Syncro Jael wrote: |
The only true 4WD Syncro's have the viscous coupler removed and a solid shaft in it's place. This takes away from the AWD capabilities of the van but has better off-road performance. |
What? The only true 4wd? Hah. No way.
4wd, 4x4, awd.. etc are all marketing terms and they can be used interchangeably.
That said, I ascribe to the personal opinion that 4x4/4wd refers to solid axles with or without the ability to select 2wd or 4wd and awd refers to cv axles front and rear. Even this is a bit muddy since a lot of suvs have solid in the rear and cv in the front, generally I will still call those 4x4. I do this for clarity of speech among friends but in no way would say anyone is wrong for disagreeing.
But to say the only true 4wd.. that's quite the definitive statement for marketing terms that have no consensus behind them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-wheel_drive |
I consider a "true" 4 wheel drive as one that each wheel will turn at exactly the same rate. 4x4.
Mine was a non-locker. AWD. This means one front and one rear wheel will always be pulling.
I added a de-coupler. De-coupled I am only 2WD with only one rear wheel having traction.
I added a rear locker. AWD. Both rear and one front wheel will always be pulling, but at different rates front to rear, due to the viscous coupler and decoupler engaged. Disengaged I am a locked 2WD.
Added a front locker. 4WD. Both front and both rear wheels will always be pulling but at different rates, due to the viscous coupler and decoupler engaged. Disengaged I am a locked 2WD.
Add a solid shaft and both lockers engaged "True 4WD or 4x4. All wheels will turn at the same rate all the time with the decoupler engaged.
Maybe I should have stated it differently?? I consider mine a 4WD even though I don't have a solid shaft. All 4 wheels have the ability to pull but at different rates due to the viscous coupler. I dunno... _________________ 1987 Syncro Westfalia Hightop - NAHT
Subaru EJ25 Forged Frankenmotor, Triple Knob.
Jael = (Mountain Goat) |
|
Back to top |
|
|
sanchius Samba Member
Joined: May 03, 2007 Posts: 1452 Location: IN
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
MsTaboo Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2006 Posts: 4095 Location: East Kootenay, British Columbia
|
Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 2:47 pm Post subject: Re: Are there Syncro's without 4WD? |
|
|
Syncro, it's not just a sticker. _________________ Currently:
'90 Syncro Westy 3 knob w/Zetec
The information age has morphed into the age of disinformation and willful ignorance. Agnotology!
Help the fight against Truth Decay.
Defend democracy, support Ukraine. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
0to60in6min Samba Member
Joined: November 27, 2006 Posts: 3416 Location: OR & CA (Oregon/California)
|
Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 4:47 pm Post subject: Re: Are there Syncro's without 4WD? |
|
|
Quote: |
Are there Syncro's without 4WD? |
yes... just remove the shaft and you have 2WD Syncro |
|
Back to top |
|
|
4Gears4Tires Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2018 Posts: 3047 Location: MD
|
Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 4:52 pm Post subject: Re: Are there Syncro's without 4WD? |
|
|
Syncro Jael wrote: |
I consider a "true" 4 wheel drive as one that each wheel will turn at exactly the same rate. 4x4. |
You can interpret that statement in 2 entirely different ways. Even fwd with an open diff turns all 4 wheels at exactly the same speed... in dry conditions in a straight line. Or a very small subset of vehicles that everyone else calls 4x4. A brand new F150 with 4x4 on the side won't turn all wheels exactly the same speed going through mud either. So if that's your definition, the amount of triple locked factory 4x4s is really really small. But again, that's just like your opinion, man. Just like my definition, not accurate, but useful.
In reality, 4x4/4wd/awd are interchangeable. _________________ '87 Syncro
Ferric Oxyhydroxide Superleggera Edition |
|
Back to top |
|
|
RainierSyncro Samba Member
Joined: February 26, 2013 Posts: 809 Location: Seattle
|
Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 2:38 am Post subject: Re: Are there Syncro's without 4WD? |
|
|
Hey, thanks for remembering my little Syncro sticker. It was a fun little thread until someone spun it out into the weeds and it eventually got locked. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
?Waldo? Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2006 Posts: 9752 Location: Where?
|
Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 9:12 am Post subject: Re: Are there Syncro's without 4WD? |
|
|
0to60in6min wrote: |
Quote: |
Are there Syncro's without 4WD? |
yes... just remove the shaft and you have 2WD Syncro |
A lot of them are 0WD and won't even move under their own power! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|