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CGriz Samba Member
Joined: April 02, 2011 Posts: 34 Location: Rochester, NY
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Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2020 5:17 pm Post subject: Air Bubbles in Overflow Tank |
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Ok I have lots of air bubbles or boiling, but it looks like bubbles, coming out of the coolant overflow tank. Background is I replaced the heads and gaskets 2 years and 17,000 miles ago. I’ve pressure tested the system and am not seeing any leaks and I have a brand new Blau cap on the expansion tank.
1) Do I have to replace my head gaskets again? I may be in denial because I feel like I just did this job. Tailpipe appears to be dry without any steam.
2) Dumb question and may be wishful thinking, but most of what I’ve seen states that air bubbles in the expansion tank = faulty head gaskets. Is it necessarily the same if I have air bubbles in the overflow tank? _________________ Sadie is an 86’
2.1 L, 115,000 Miles |
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DanHoug Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2016 Posts: 4800 Location: Bemidji, MN
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CGriz Samba Member
Joined: April 02, 2011 Posts: 34 Location: Rochester, NY
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Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2020 6:20 pm Post subject: Re: Air Bubbles in Overflow Tank |
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Yeah that's what I'm thinking I'll have to do next, maybe drop the push rod tube cover as well and see if I find anything suspicious _________________ Sadie is an 86’
2.1 L, 115,000 Miles |
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Ahwahnee Samba Member
Joined: June 05, 2010 Posts: 9810 Location: Mt Lemmon, AZ
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Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2020 6:44 pm Post subject: Re: Air Bubbles in Overflow Tank |
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Just to be clear... your expansion tank is full (no air pocket)?
I would expect the expansion tank to see 'air' first and then perhaps push it into the overflow. |
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CGriz Samba Member
Joined: April 02, 2011 Posts: 34 Location: Rochester, NY
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Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2020 6:59 pm Post subject: Re: Air Bubbles in Overflow Tank |
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Correct, expansion tank is full and I am not seeing any air pockets in it, but I am seeing significant air bubbles coming from the overflow tank, really enough that I feel like I should be seeing other issues. Should also note that the gowesty pressure tester (bicycle pump) appeared to loose about 1 psi over the course of a couple minutes, but I could not find a leak... _________________ Sadie is an 86’
2.1 L, 115,000 Miles |
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CGriz Samba Member
Joined: April 02, 2011 Posts: 34 Location: Rochester, NY
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Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2020 7:04 pm Post subject: Re: Air Bubbles in Overflow Tank |
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I haven’t checked the front heater core either, but suppose this is also a possibility and worth checking before tearing the engine apart _________________ Sadie is an 86’
2.1 L, 115,000 Miles |
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CGriz Samba Member
Joined: April 02, 2011 Posts: 34 Location: Rochester, NY
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Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2020 5:32 pm Post subject: Re: Air Bubbles in Overflow Tank |
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Update: I pulled the pushrod tube cover yesterday and the head gaskets still looked nice and clean. I decided to pressure test the system again. About 10 minute later I found another small leak coming from a hose clamp. Tightened up the hose clamp and the problem seems to be solved! No more bubbles in the overflow tank have appeared the past two days. Lesson is to proceed carefully and check twice and thoroughly before drawing conclusions. Very glad I pressure tested the system again, I will still monitor carefully but I believe the problem is solved. Of course, I’m still a little superstitious and hope I am not jinxing by posting my conclusion too early. _________________ Sadie is an 86’
2.1 L, 115,000 Miles |
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Ahwahnee Samba Member
Joined: June 05, 2010 Posts: 9810 Location: Mt Lemmon, AZ
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Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2020 6:45 pm Post subject: Re: Air Bubbles in Overflow Tank |
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CGriz wrote: |
...No more bubbles in the overflow tank have appeared the past two days... |
I do hope it's good, but I have seen engines where the combustion gases would only get into the coolant on an extended long hot drive. Makes the problem hard to recreate for diagnosis. |
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CGriz Samba Member
Joined: April 02, 2011 Posts: 34 Location: Rochester, NY
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Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2020 7:06 pm Post subject: Re: Air Bubbles in Overflow Tank |
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Yes, I’m still a little worried about that, but am back in the “monitoring closely” phase, which is what I’m always doing with this cooling system rather than considering another rebuild, gowesty engine, subie or just throwing in the towel. Fingers crossed. _________________ Sadie is an 86’
2.1 L, 115,000 Miles |
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CGriz Samba Member
Joined: April 02, 2011 Posts: 34 Location: Rochester, NY
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Posted: Tue May 11, 2021 4:36 am Post subject: Re: Air Bubbles in Overflow Tank |
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Just a reminder to pressure test your system for leaks annually folks. This is literally the life force of our vans we are talking about. After taking care of the above issue I pressure tested the system again yesterday after replacing the original automatic transmission cooler with an FAS heat sink cooler. I found small leaks coming from 4 hose clamps I kid you not. This is after I got the system completely leak free last year. It’s also just a reminder to do the work yourself or at least know how to get around your van if you can. I am the definition of an amateur and if it not for this forum would be totally lost - but I paid someone last spring to change a bunch of hoses and replace the coolant and they clearly didn't tighten up the new hoses well. The amount of air and dirt that has now been introduced to the system is extremely disturbing to think about and if I had the time I would replace all the coolant again right now. I also noticed that my less than 1 year old blau cap is no longer holding pressure....time for a new one. _________________ Sadie is an 86’
2.1 L, 115,000 Miles |
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4Gears4Tires Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2018 Posts: 3054 Location: MD
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Posted: Tue May 11, 2021 6:50 am Post subject: Re: Air Bubbles in Overflow Tank |
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It's a balancing act of tightening and why some people prefer the constant tension clamps. Too tight and you strip the clamp, too loose and it leaks. Good and tight when a hose is new is also not good and tight after the rubber deforms a bit. It's even worse with silicone hoses.
I like to go around and try to check tightness on clamps every so often (oil change?). It makes me feel like I know what I am doing and it's an easy win. _________________ '87 Syncro
Ferric Oxyhydroxide Superleggera Edition |
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dabaron Samba Member
Joined: June 21, 2018 Posts: 2562 Location: Philly, mang
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Posted: Tue May 11, 2021 7:44 am Post subject: Re: Air Bubbles in Overflow Tank |
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i was in traffic and got a whiff of coolant. turns out i had a very tiny leak from the tiny hose feeding the oil heat exchanger on my 2.1 - a few minutes later and it was fixed.
maybe i have a super sensitive nose, or maybe it was another car in traffic making the smell, but boy am i glad i gave the hoses a through examination.
there is much to be said for knowing how the systems work and where to look for trouble. i can't imagine owning a Vanagon and not wrenching on it myself. i would be lost if something were to happen on the road and i could not address it myself.
the cliche "VW, making mechanics for blah blah years" is true. and i find that a positive. _________________ 1991 Vanagon GL Camper
i had no idea i wanted to be a mechanic
"burnin oil and cookin coils" -- Destructo
BiWerks Design, LLC |
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MarkWard Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005 Posts: 17155 Location: Retired South Florida
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Posted: Tue May 11, 2021 8:05 am Post subject: Re: Air Bubbles in Overflow Tank |
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To be honest, I would not to expect to see much coolant exchange in your overflow tank. That could indicate that the cap is not able to control the pressure build up at temp or there is excessive pressure build up. Pressure could get excessive from the radiator fan coming on too late or a radiator that is not removing enough heat. Head gaskets should be the last option. _________________ ☮️ |
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jimf909 Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2014 Posts: 7480 Location: WA/ID
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Posted: Tue May 11, 2021 1:28 pm Post subject: Re: Air Bubbles in Overflow Tank |
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CGriz wrote: |
I am the definition of an amateur and if it not for this forum would be totally lost - but I paid someone last spring to change a bunch of hoses and replace the coolant and they clearly didn't tighten up the new hoses well. The amount of air and dirt that has now been introduced to the system is extremely disturbing to think about and if I had the time I would replace all the coolant again right now. I also noticed that my less than 1 year old blau cap is no longer holding pressure....time for a new one. |
As mentioned, tightening worm gear hose clamps on new hoses a few times in the first year is something to be expected. I wouldn't knock the installer for that. Maybe for not suggesting that you may need to do a lap and give the screws a twist.
I also wouldn't sweat the dirt that has entered the system: it would have to be tiny to squeeze in and in relatively small proportion to what was not cleaned out in the last flush.
Your point on the pressure test is spot on and it sounds like you're in fairly good shape. Except for maybe the oem tank...
Reports of failing blue caps and old plastic tanks is frequent enough to prompt some folks to replace the oem tank with an aluminum tank.
https://www.vancafe.com/025121403-AL-p/025121403-al.htm
_________________ - Jim
Abscate wrote: |
Do not get killed, do not kill others.
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Current: 1990 Westy Camper - Bostig RG4, 2wd, manual trans w/Peloquin, NAHT high-top, 280 ah LFP battery, 160 watts solar, Flash Silver, seam rust, bondo, etc., etc.
Past: 1985 Westy Camper - 1.9 wbx, 2wd, manual trans, Merian Brown, (sold after 17 years to Northwesty who converted it to a Syncro). |
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4Gears4Tires Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2018 Posts: 3054 Location: MD
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Posted: Tue May 11, 2021 7:49 pm Post subject: Re: Air Bubbles in Overflow Tank |
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Even though I really like my vancafe aluminum tank I wish it had the sight glass just for peace of mind. My coolant temp gauge will blink and let me know it's low but... sometimes it's nice to just know know, you know? _________________ '87 Syncro
Ferric Oxyhydroxide Superleggera Edition |
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jimf909 Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2014 Posts: 7480 Location: WA/ID
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Posted: Tue May 11, 2021 8:31 pm Post subject: Re: Air Bubbles in Overflow Tank |
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^^^ There are a few threads on adding assorted sight glasses or tubes. This is just a quick example, naturally it would need to handle 15 psi or so.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07RYR7Z58/ref=sspa_dk_d...NrPXRydWU= _________________ - Jim
Abscate wrote: |
Do not get killed, do not kill others.
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Current: 1990 Westy Camper - Bostig RG4, 2wd, manual trans w/Peloquin, NAHT high-top, 280 ah LFP battery, 160 watts solar, Flash Silver, seam rust, bondo, etc., etc.
Past: 1985 Westy Camper - 1.9 wbx, 2wd, manual trans, Merian Brown, (sold after 17 years to Northwesty who converted it to a Syncro). |
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Xevin Samba Member
Joined: January 08, 2014 Posts: 7635
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Posted: Tue May 11, 2021 9:41 pm Post subject: Re: Air Bubbles in Overflow Tank |
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4Gears4Tires wrote: |
Even though I really like my vancafe aluminum tank I wish it had the sight glass just for peace of mind. My coolant temp gauge will blink and let me know it's low but... sometimes it's nice to just know know, you know? |
_________________ Keep on Busin'
67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
Clatter wrote: |
Damn that Xevin... |
skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
I respect Xevin and he's a turd |
SGKent wrote: |
My God! Xevin and I 100% agree |
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djkeev Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007 Posts: 32638 Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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Posted: Wed May 12, 2021 3:14 am Post subject: Re: Air Bubbles in Overflow Tank |
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4Gears4Tires wrote: |
Even though I really like my vancafe aluminum tank I wish it had the sight glass just for peace of mind. My coolant temp gauge will blink and let me know it's low but... sometimes it's nice to just know know, you know? |
You know, when I first got my RMW tank not having a visual really bothered me!
I longed for a sight glass.
I got a second chance on the 90 and passed over GoWesty's tank with a sight glass in favor of making my own tank...... WITHOUT a sight glass!
My blinky light works.
I adapted.
A sight glass is simply another potential failure point in a system already brimming with potential failure points!
I also didn't like using the stock VW level sensor in the GoWesty tank. I already had one fail and leak!
Dave _________________ Stop Dead Photo Links how to post photos
Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473
Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537
Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert |
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4Gears4Tires Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2018 Posts: 3054 Location: MD
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Posted: Wed May 12, 2021 8:40 am Post subject: Re: Air Bubbles in Overflow Tank |
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The LED is also a potential failure point. Seeing as my coolant temp gauge does not work (and I rely on an aftermarket one in line right before the radiator) it is not a huge leap to assume that the LED could fail.
Everything will succumb to entropy eventually.
Maybe a video feed into the engine bay with this in view.
_________________ '87 Syncro
Ferric Oxyhydroxide Superleggera Edition |
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jimf909 Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2014 Posts: 7480 Location: WA/ID
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Posted: Thu May 13, 2021 7:56 pm Post subject: Re: Air Bubbles in Overflow Tank |
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^^^ A few wireless cameras in the engine bay (aimed at belts, coolant tanks, etc.) and temp sensors (trans, each wheel, maybe cv boots) transmitting to a phone is intriguing. Not intriguing enough to do something about it but intriguing nonetheless. _________________ - Jim
Abscate wrote: |
Do not get killed, do not kill others.
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Current: 1990 Westy Camper - Bostig RG4, 2wd, manual trans w/Peloquin, NAHT high-top, 280 ah LFP battery, 160 watts solar, Flash Silver, seam rust, bondo, etc., etc.
Past: 1985 Westy Camper - 1.9 wbx, 2wd, manual trans, Merian Brown, (sold after 17 years to Northwesty who converted it to a Syncro). |
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