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VW Addict 
Samba Salesman
Joined: January 09, 2003
Posts: 3920
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 Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2020 11:23 am Post subject: Themostat Question |
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Question about my thermostat...
Are my flaps open or closed? I am not sure if the spring in the photo with the rod, means the flaps are open, or closed?
I live in a very hot climate, want my flaps to be open all the time when the engine is hot, or cold, the spring on the rod doesn't move. Are they staying open, or closed? Thanks!
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timvw7476
Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2013
Posts: 2196
Location: seattle
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| Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2020 11:31 am Post subject: Re: Themostat Question |
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That flap system is 'open' for sure.
There is usually a small metal tab & screw threaded there above the
safety spring, into the blower housing.
The only thing I would tell you is check under your oil filler cap, if you
get condensation from short trips with cold oil white/yellow emulsified oil
clings to the bottom of that cap, meaning you are running waaay too cold.
That usually happens in winter with a full-open no thermostat system.
Good luck with it. |
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VW Addict
Samba Salesman
Joined: January 09, 2003
Posts: 3920
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| Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2020 11:52 am Post subject: Re: Themostat Question |
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| timvw7476 wrote: |
That flap system is 'open' for sure.
There is usually a small metal tab & screw threaded there above the
safety spring, into the blower housing.
The only thing I would tell you is check under your oil filler cap, if you
get condensation from short trips with cold oil white/yellow emulsified oil
clings to the bottom of that cap, meaning you are running waaay too cold.
That usually happens in winter with a full-open no thermostat system.
Good luck with it. |
Thank you. I thought so, just wanted to be sure. We live in a hot climate, so being open is fine with me. I just wanted to make sure flaps were open. It has been running VERY hot though... hot enough where I can't grab the dipstick, even after only traveling 20 minutes or so. I am going to adjust valves soon, but not sure what I can do to make it run cooler, or find out why it's running so hot.
Thank you! |
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SGKent
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2020 11:55 am Post subject: Re: Themostat Question |
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leaving them open all the time doesn't cool the engine anymore than a working thermostat does, but it is better than no flaps. The thermostat stabilizes the temperature so there is less metal fatigue from parts expanding and contracting as the engine heats and cools.
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“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50332
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| Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2020 2:39 pm Post subject: Re: Themostat Question |
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Do you have the heat shield over the muffler in place? What about the foam engine surround seal? Every part of the cooling system is important, but is very common to find that something is missing.
Don't know what your morning temperatures typically are but if you often drive at below 50°F or a working thermostat becomes important. By the time you get down to 30°F it's essential. Engines don't like being run too cold any more than they like being run too hot. |
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Ben Middleton
Samba Member
Joined: April 11, 2016
Posts: 219
Location: England, UK
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| Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2020 2:46 pm Post subject: Re: Themostat Question |
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| If you have drum brakes, just double check that they aren't boiling hot after a drive. That could indicate that they have an issue. If they're locking on then that will cause your engine to overheat. |
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busdaddy
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51113
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2020 3:03 pm Post subject: Re: Themostat Question |
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| VW Addict wrote: |
| It has been running VERY hot though... hot enough where I can't grab the dipstick, even after only traveling 20 minutes or so. |
A laser temp gun is much more accurate than your fingers, they used to be cheap before Covid came along, don't know what demand has done to the pricing lately though.
What weight oil are you running?
_________________
Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50332
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| Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2020 3:25 pm Post subject: Re: Themostat Question |
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What are you setting your timing at? It should be no more than 28° BTDC at 3800+ rpm, hoses removed and plugged. If your ambients are exceeding 40°C (105°F) you might back the timing off another degree or two. Don't run oil any thicker than you need to make 10psi per thousand rpm as thicker oil may cause the oil to bypass the cooler robbing you of cooling capacity.
Make sure all your heater parts and pieces are hooked up as you don't want to waste cooling air by just having it blow out hither and yon without having done anything on the way. Part of what the cooling air is supposed to do is cool the heat exchangers even when you don't need heat. |
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VW Addict
Samba Salesman
Joined: January 09, 2003
Posts: 3920
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| Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2020 5:06 pm Post subject: Re: Themostat Question |
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| Wildthings wrote: |
What are you setting your timing at? It should be no more than 28° BTDC at 3800+ rpm, hoses removed and plugged. If your ambients are exceeding 40°C (105°F) you might back the timing off another degree or two. Don't run oil any thicker than you need to make 10psi per thousand rpm as thicker oil may cause the oil to bypass the cooler robbing you of cooling capacity.
Make sure all your heater parts and pieces are hooked up as you don't want to waste cooling air by just having it blow out hither and yon without having done anything on the way. Part of what the cooling air is supposed to do is cool the heat exchangers even when you don't need heat. |
....How do I check timing at 3800RPMS.... |
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busdaddy
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51113
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2020 5:23 pm Post subject: Re: Themostat Question |
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| VW Addict wrote: |
| Wildthings wrote: |
What are you setting your timing at? It should be no more than 28° BTDC at 3800+ rpm, hoses removed and plugged. If your ambients are exceeding 40°C (105°F) you might back the timing off another degree or two. Don't run oil any thicker than you need to make 10psi per thousand rpm as thicker oil may cause the oil to bypass the cooler robbing you of cooling capacity.
Make sure all your heater parts and pieces are hooked up as you don't want to waste cooling air by just having it blow out hither and yon without having done anything on the way. Part of what the cooling air is supposed to do is cool the heat exchangers even when you don't need heat. |
....How do I check timing at 3800RPMS.... |
Read through this and see if it makes sense:
| busdaddy wrote: |
Here's the sermon 
First you need to determine exactly where TDC is on your pulley and then set the timing at speed like this: Here's my timing for noobs rundown (keep in mind this assumes you have a degree wheel, timing scale or dial advance timing light and know where TDC really is, if you don't understand the marks on your type 1 pulley read this: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=251672&highlight=stock+pulley+marks ). Or if type 4 see this: http://www.ratwell.com/technical/FindTimingMark.html
If you only have one hose attached to your distributor pull it off, you don't need to cap it (no need on single hose systems), if you have 2 pull them both off but plug the one that was connected to the nipple facing the distributor (retard {not you, that's what the hose does}). Now connect the timing light to the battery and the #1 plug wire according to the timing light instructions (and set it to zero if it's the type with adjustments). Now start the engine and shoot the timing light at the scale and pulley (hold the light in your right hand), see the mark on the pulley?, good. Now using your left hand slowly open the throttle on the side of the carb or throttle body (move it the same way the cable pulls it) and watch the timing mark VS: the scale, the mark on the pulley should start to move to the left, open the throttle a little more and continue until the mark no longer moves to the left any more (yes it's loud, isn't it?), give it a bit more throttle just to confirm the mark is staying put at wherever it stopped (hopefully 28 degrees) and then release the throttle. If it stopped at 28 move on to carb/FI adjustment, if it went past or didn't make it all the way loosen the distributor clamp a little and turn the distributor a few degrees one way or the other (you pick, if it's worse go the other way), repeat until you find the happy spot and don't forget to tighten the clamp when you are done (make sure the distributor is pushed down all the way into the case too). Avoid loose fitting clothing and long hair near spinning fans and belts too, no need for a trip to emergency. Now put the hose back on, pack up the timing light and move on to carb or FI adjustment. |
Still interested in what oil you are running........
_________________
Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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SGKent
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2020 5:28 pm Post subject: Re: Themostat Question |
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| Quote: |
| Don't run oil any thicker than you need to make 10psi per thousand rpm as thicker oil may cause the oil to bypass the cooler robbing you of cooling capacity. |
this I also agree with. Once you have 10 PSI per 1000 RPM when the engine is at the hottest it will be like a long freeway drive on a hot day, or a long grade climb, thicker oil will only make matters worse.
_________________
“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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VW Addict
Samba Salesman
Joined: January 09, 2003
Posts: 3920
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| Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2020 12:10 pm Post subject: Re: Themostat Question |
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| Penzoil 20/50 |
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