Beam bushing issues delrin AND urethane

[Dibaltic]

Delrin
I bought two sizes of Pacific customs Delrin bushings totalling over $120 per this sites recommendation of delrin over urethane. Both press fit into the beam yet clunked (by hand) on install with zero reaming. Total pain to remove and useless waste of unreturnable money.

Urethane
Bought JBugs kit listed as for 2" 0.120 wall tubing which my beam is, did not fit. Upon arrival notice packaging says 46 mm but 2" 0.120 is 44.704m. shaved about 1.3mm odd before these pieces of garbage fit. Had I bought the 45mm kit for aluminum beam (per their site) I'd of only had to shave off 0.3mm which I feel is very reasonable for aftermarket parts and aftermarket setups. Plus I'd of saved $10 on top.of the $120 in bushings alone I wasted with Pacific customs (plus $100 reamer)

After reaming

In the future I would recommend either the urethane bushings for aluminum beam (anywhere) plus reamer from Pacific customs (or better yet spiral reamer) but most preferably the beam getting machined for needle bearings post welding.

[dustymojave]

About 10 years ago, I had a customer who insisted that I replace his perfectly good stock needle bearings and micarta inner bushings in his ball joint beam and install delrin bushings. The delrin bushings he provided slipped very loosely into the beam tubes, yet at the same time were rattly loose on his arms. So I took them out and put the original bushings and bearings back in, at considerable effort to do without breaking the inner bushings or damaging the original bearings. Then after I told him I was not charging him for my time, he left in a huff because I had not installed the delrins.

Close measurements of the new are necessary BEFORE going to the effort of taking out old parts.
_________________
Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet.

[JBUGS.COM]

[JWHracing]

Sounds like a measurement issue on your end, not necessarily the seller's fault. I agree some of the descriptions on parts sites aren't great, but if you really want to get the right part, maybe you should pick up a phone and call and ask. The good shops where I'd want to spend my money I'm sure would be more than happy to help and tell you some measurements.

Usually when the beam bushings are installed into the beam, the bushing itself gets compressed and shrinks the ID of the bushing due to the press fit of the outside of the bushing inside the beam itself. This is what causes the need to ream the inner diameter after install.

I've also seen beam tubes that are ovalled instead of round due to warping after welding.
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65 Baja - Class 5 Unlimited Race Car

2021 STORR Pro Air Cooled Buggy Champion
2019 AZOP Unlimited Buggy Champion
2017 SADR 1300 Class Champion
2016 AZOP Limited Buggy Champion

Currently "retired" from racing

[dustymojave]

VERY good response JWH.
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Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet.

[kangaboy]

I don't really understand the issue here...did you remove previous bushing/bearing, clean up the beam, and then measure the ID of each beam opening, and then base your purchase on your measurements?
Like was said above, you want to purchase the bushings based on the ID of the beam, and then if/when they compress when installed, that is where the reamer comes into play, and you can just ream them to the OD of the trailing arms.
I guess I just wasn't able to understand the issue in the original post.
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-74 Standard - "CaliBug" 2084T, MS3X w/FI and Crank Fire
-76 Westy - "Gandalf"
-18 GTI SE

[jsturtlebuggy]

When I first saw this thread awhile back you had a video attach to it. From what I saw it look like the trailing arm was rocking back and forth in bushing.
What happen to the video?

One thing you are not showing is the trailing arms. Are they stock or aftermarket?
Have you measure the diameter of the arms? If so can you share your findings?
I have been using and fitted the blue, white and grey ones for many years now.
The white ones seems to be the best for cost verses wear. The gray ones are the best and wear like iron, though they are not cheap. And you need a real sharp reamer to fit them to size.
I buy mine from KarTek, they know off road and can give you answers that most other places, you are just dealing with a sales person that has no idea on what works.
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Joseph
Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA
Elrod Motorsports
Motion Tire Motorsports
Having fun with Dune Buggies since 1970
Into Volkswagens since 1960

[66 Shorty]

I just bought the Delrin bushings from Kartek myself. I'm waiting for their arrival... I have a ball joint beam that I'm using them in. They only had one size for them. I should be good I'm hoping... lol!

[dustymojave]

Hell, I'm still trying to figure out what Jaime Marrison of J-Bugs is talking about "an air-bag car"...
_________________
Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet.

[kangaboy]

[Matt Wilson]

I had excellent fit with these Delrin bushings on a stock beam:

http://nectarlabs.co/shop-2/delrin-beam-bushings-ball-joint-beam/

Not sure if those guys are around anymore.

Also had good luck with red EMPI urethane.

I tend to agree with the Jbugs folks a bit, that almost any aftermarket parts nowadays, are about 80% there; you have to do the extra effort to get it up to 100%.
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1972 Standard Beetle
1969 Baja Beetle

[66 Shorty]

[dustymojave]

I ought to add a little to this discussion.

This past summer, around the time this thread was created and active, I was replacing the urethane bushings in the front of my Baja Bug.

Ordering replacements turned into a headache. It used to be fairly simple. There weren't so many options, and the options were straight forward. A couple decades ago, I replaced the original roller bearings and micarta bushings due to wear. Those had finally started breaking at the outer ends. They had a couple hundred thousand miles on them. I simply called McKenzie's and ordered a set of Sway-A-Way brand long bushings for a factory link pin beam. No problemo dude. Got what I needed and put them in.

Now in 2020, there were options for some that were too damned short, I REALLY can't imagine why some are so short. There aren't arms with short shafts on them. And there are a few different ODs for various types of beams. Very confusing and conflicting listings. I had to do a LOT of research to find which ones were the right ID, OD and length. Nobody had them listed as fitting stock factory beam and trailing arm diameters.

Why NOT

I'm seeing why folks on here seem to have so much trouble with ordering bushings. What used to be so simple is now screwed up quite badly.

On top of the ordering issues, When they arrived, I found that they are made of a VERY soft rubbery urethane. VERY difficult to ream to size. And NOT what I want in my offroad beam. For 40 years, urethane beam bushings have been hard. Not as hard as delrin bushings, but hard enough that when you drop one on the work bench, it made a "clock" sound. These new ones dropped on the same bench make a plop sound like a way over-ripe banana that then wobble around like school cafeteria jello.

The ones sold by EMPI and most every one else are still made in the same facility in Orange County, CA where they have been for many decades. But they ain't the same stuff!!! VERY disappointing. NOT what I want in my offroad beam.
_________________
Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet.

[66 Shorty]

I agree Dusty!

The guy (Frank) at SACO, was great to deal with. So far the customer service has been really good. I called & talked to him about my problem, & he said to send these back to him (which actually cost be $14.00 to do! LOL! It was only 1 pound) & said he'd make new ones to whatever specs I want! THAT right THERE is GREAT Customer Service! So, I measured up all the Arms, stock bushings, Stock bearings, & sent him blueprints of exactly what I wanted. Only changing the ID's & OD's to leave extra material for me to custom fit all of them. Basically I had them add .020 on the ODS & the ID's. (.010 extra from stock) I will have roughly .005-.010 extra material to work with. That's plenty, & also not too much to have to remove to make them fit nice & tight in the beam, but also enough material to open them up to make my arms fit nice & snug with ease of rotational movement!

Now I'm hoping they'll cover the shipping back to me... It would be great if they paid for the return shipping to them seeing the parts were "defective".

If anyone is interested I'll keep you posted on the end results. (won't be for a few weeks at best)

And NO I would NEVER use the urethane bushings in my beam. I've seen how so many have split & crumbled away to nothing. Especially for the steering joint! Those are DANGEROUS!!!

[jps1145]

I found the same issue as Dusty with the red bushings a few years ago. They used to be stiff and somehow got soft (story of my life).
I started buying the white ones. I get them slightly oversized on OD and turn them down on a lathe to fit my beam. I size them so they are snug and only require a light tap with a rubber mallet to install. They are snug enough to fit with no play, but don't deform the ID so my arms move with just a little resistance.
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Tehachapi, CA
'69 Baja
Vintage Funco single seater
My Baja

[dustymojave]