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1,6TD - leaking injector hoses
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ZsZ
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2020 6:30 am    Post subject: Re: 1,6TD - leaking injector hoses Reply with quote

MarkWard wrote:
Id spend the $15 and get the correct hose. Your taper hose maybe be holding it off center slightly. Also, Ive never seen a nipple fail to seal. They are light weight and can be easily bent if not careful.


I agree!

Ed, you can crack a nipple on the bottom if you are not careful, but it is uncommon and you have to bend it aggressively to all directions to get a fatigue crack.

First eliminate the most obvious possible cause. Get the correct OD hose and try if it fixes your problem.
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epowell
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2020 6:38 am    Post subject: Re: 1,6TD - leaking injector hoses Reply with quote

Yeah I am now in contact with a local store that specializes in such things... they have 3.2mm X9mm but 9 is too big.

I think 8mm is the max.
Maybe they have 3mmX8mm ?? I won't sweat it too much - and just get the expensive stuff if I have to. [however I welcome the challenge to source stuff locally, and who knows what other great stuff they might have]
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2020 9:52 am    Post subject: Re: 1,6TD - leaking injector hoses Reply with quote

MarkWard wrote:
Id spend the $15 and get the correct hose. Your taper hose maybe be holding it off center slightly. Also, Ive never seen a nipple fail to seal. They are light weight and can be easily bent if not careful.


Yes, just get the right size hoses as a first step. Your jury rigged hoses don't seem to be fitting very well. Are you in Czech or Vancouver?
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epowell
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2020 1:34 pm    Post subject: Re: 1,6TD - leaking injector hoses Reply with quote

Czech...
Actually 7 out of 9 is not extremely bad. And we still don't know for sure it the leak is from the hoses.

But yes... I'll get proper size hoses first...

I can order VW stuff for $15, but generic profession stuff is $2 here locally... just gotta suss out the right size.
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valvecovergasket
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2020 2:20 pm    Post subject: Re: 1,6TD - leaking injector hoses Reply with quote

epowell wrote:
Czech...
Actually 7 out of 9 is not extremely bad. And we still don't know for sure it the leak is from the hoses.


based on what youve described its either a bent/broken nipple (i would say really unlikely since you havent dropped the injectors...) or an improperly fitting custom whittled hose - which seems extremely likely given the rarity of leaks on brand new hose installs.
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epowell
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2020 6:05 am    Post subject: Re: 1,6TD - leaking injector hoses Reply with quote

I ordered some 3mm ID X 7mm OD fuel hose...

IN the mean time I found such a 3x7 short piece, installed it and will now go for a test drive...

BUT it occured for me how maybe I damaged the metal nipple..... the way the nipple was situated in order to pull off the old hose which might have been on tight, the upwards pull of the hose put a sideways pressure on the nipple. So?

Anyhow, I'll make a test drive now with the new piece and that will tell me more.

We suddenly decided to take off for a trip on Sunday - so hopefully I can sort this out before then.
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Jeffrey Lee
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2020 7:07 am    Post subject: Re: 1,6TD - leaking injector hoses Reply with quote

If the nipple is indeed bent, it's unlikely it happened by pulling too hard on its hose, and more likely bent when the injector was removed or installed. Depending on the design of the socket used, the nipple can be damaged by the flutes inside a socket, hence the availability of this purpose-made IDI injector socket with a large cutaway to provide clearance for the nipples.

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I'm not saying that's the case here, and you should certainly pursue all possibilities, but it's a common occurrence and so a likely culprit.
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epowell
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2020 7:48 am    Post subject: Re: 1,6TD - leaking injector hoses Reply with quote

Thanks Jeff... who knows. Thing is that I installed those injectors 4 years ago and there has been to problem at all until now.

So I just got back from another test drive - with a fresh new 3mmx7mm hose on the questionable nipple. The result was that the leak is still there in exactly THAT and only THAT nipple > however this time it took a little longer for fuel to appear - I was driving for about 5 minutes at least before any leak appeared - and about 10 minutes full driving before the leak was obvious. So seems it is not leaking an enormous amount...

My guess is that this particular injector is older than the other 3 - as seen in pics I posted of all 4 injectors - So this one has probably had more handling than the others - and I suspect that just recently, the orientation of the nipple mean that pulling off the 'stuck' hose straight up put a strong sideways pressure on the nipple perhaps causing it to bend and form a microscopic crack/leak. This is my theory.

What to do?

Is it possible to put a bit of high-heat epoxy around the base of the nipple to seal it?

Should I remove the injector and have it repaired or inspected by a pro (I know a good one nearby)?

MOST IMPORTANTLY, we intend to make a 10 day local camping trip just around Czech - can I just tolerate this little leak for the time being since we won't be driving more than 2 or 3 hours per day?

MORE QUESTIONS:
Should I be thinking about buying a new set of injectors anyway? I will be rebuilding my new JX block with new KS head within the next 5 years anyway - maybe it is time to buy new injectors? I wonder about their future availability.

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MarkWard
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2020 11:34 am    Post subject: Re: 1,6TD - leaking injector hoses Reply with quote

I'm surprised you don't have spare injectors from all the diesel stuff you were pack rating. Too bad you aren't here. I've got a box of them for sale along with a TD block and a couple pumps for less than $100 in the classifieds. Shipping would be prohibitive.

They used that style injector in a lot of applications from that era. In other words you don't need to look for a vanagon specific one. Good luck.
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epowell
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2020 12:40 pm    Post subject: Re: 1,6TD - leaking injector hoses Reply with quote

MarkWard wrote:
I'm surprised you don't have spare injectors from all the diesel stuff you were pack rating. Too bad you aren't here. I've got a box of them for sale along with a TD block and a couple pumps for less than $100 in the classifieds. Shipping would be prohibitive.

They used that style injector in a lot of applications from that era. In other words you don't need to look for a vanagon specific one. Good luck.


Lots of stuff I still haven't got around to hording... like spare alternator, starter, injection pump, INJECTORS... etc etc My brother lives in Atlanta so maybe you could send stuff up there, or even drop off if by chance you might ever go there. My bro and I usually meet up in BC once a year.

So, sounds like those injectors won't be completely extinct any time really soon...

What's your opinion with just living with a tiny leak like that for a while? Bad idea? Cancel the trip?
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sphet
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2020 1:01 pm    Post subject: Re: 1,6TD - leaking injector hoses Reply with quote

When I bought our 1.6 van the previous owner drove across canada with this issue. I still struggle with it. Others may disagree perhaps but a short trip doesnt seem like a problem given that the PO got from the Maritimes to Vancouver okay.

I need to buy new hardlines to try and then new heat shields. My injectors were retuned by a shop so I dont want to replace those yet, if not needed. Besides, I am a bit worried about cracking the case given dire warnings of others.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2020 2:45 pm    Post subject: Re: 1,6TD - leaking injector hoses Reply with quote

'Boris and Ivan' in the Russian Tiaga would pull the injector, unscrew the bodies, and braze those nipple bases. cleaned and fluxed, the bronze would wick in nicely to the hard steel. while they are apart, true up the body halves by rubbing figure 8s on wet 800 grit sandpaper on a sheet of glass. this will slightly increase the pop pressure so beware of taking too much off if you have a balanced set.

do NOT make the mistake of using clear yellow Tygon fuel line for the returns, despite how cool it looks. BTDT and they softened, popped off and sprayed a holy mess while i was driving in not very many minutes.

every IDI diesel owner should strive to get a complete set of spare injectors... cleaned, pop pressure set, and pattern tested for quick swap out. it's part of the drill in running these old bangers. if you're really OCD, you'll blue them with gun blueing.

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ZsZ
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2020 10:42 pm    Post subject: Re: 1,6TD - leaking injector hoses Reply with quote

You can drive this but eventually diesel mist will cover the whole engine bay. It won rust at least Wink

I think you should loosen and re-tighten the hard line too. Maybe it is not seating properly
And while the hard line is loose, you can try tightening the bodies by turning the upper part
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Jeffrey Lee
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2020 7:34 am    Post subject: Re: 1,6TD - leaking injector hoses Reply with quote

ZsZ wrote:
You can drive this but eventually diesel mist will cover the whole engine bay.


Agreed. And diesel fuel is highly corrosive to almost anything made of EPDM rubber: hoses, belts, seals, etc..

If you do drive with a small and manageable leak, at least make some effort to contain it, such as a frequently changed absorbent rag, etc.. Course, this also introduces a potential flammability hazard, so proceed with caution ...
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