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Albertoprop17
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Joined: March 15, 2016
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Location: Valencia (Spain)
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 Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 3:45 am Post subject: Bolt on irs on beetle? |
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Hi, does anyone tried to put a bolt on irs bracket on a beetle pan? Does it fit?
It will be interesting if it fits, maybe the system will work with narrowed irs trailing arms...
I have this in mind because I would like to convert my oval to irs without cutting and welding the pan.
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runamoc 
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| Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 5:51 am Post subject: Re: Bolt on irs on beetle? |
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| Quote: |
| bolt on irs bracket on a beetle pan? |
They make those? I've only seen the weld on type
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Albertoprop17
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Joined: March 15, 2016
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Location: Valencia (Spain)
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| Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 5:59 am Post subject: Re: Bolt on irs on beetle? |
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| runamoc wrote: |
| Quote: |
| bolt on irs bracket on a beetle pan? |
They make those? I've only seen the weld on type |
Yes, they make them for split buses
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Lo Cash John
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| Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 6:06 am Post subject: Re: Bolt on irs on beetle? |
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There is no such thing as "bolt on" IRS for type 1 (Bug, Ghia, Thing) floor pan. If you want to convert to IRS there will be cutting and welding involved.
If you have an oval window bug on it's original pan I'd suggest leaving it swing axle rear suspension. If you want improved handling & cornering there are many things you can do. Look to the Porsche 356 crowd for these things.
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oprn
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Location: Western Canada
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| Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 6:31 am Post subject: Re: Bolt on irs on beetle? |
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^^This^^^
I almost posted "Give it to me and I will find you a '68 or newer Bug!". |
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Albertoprop17
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Location: Valencia (Spain)
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| Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 7:24 am Post subject: Re: Bolt on irs on beetle? |
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I know that the "bolt on kit" doesn't exist, i just want to know if the bolt on bus irs brackets will fit on beetle torsion bar tubes. If they fit, maybe a custom trailing arm will work
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Brian_e
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| Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 8:50 am Post subject: Re: Bolt on irs on beetle? |
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Bus torsion tubes are a much larger diameter. The bug will also need a bunch of clearancing to get the brackets to sit in the correct spot. The bus does not need the extra clearance work.
Brian
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Steve Arndt
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| Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 11:00 am Post subject: Re: Bolt on irs on beetle? |
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The iMore bolt on a arm rear conversion would be a bolt on IRS kit. Not sure if you thought of that. I'm not spelling it right.
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earthquake
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| Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 11:36 am Post subject: Re: Bolt on irs on beetle? |
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who says the bracket has to be at a angle to the torsion housing?
What if you made a bracket that bolts on the TH is parallel to the spring plate, then modify the inboard mount for a bushing that is at a right angle to the spring plate.
That way the arm movement would only be vertical, Would that affect the CV's?
Would it drive the tires into the fenders at full bounce?
eQ
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mark tucker
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| Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 12:34 pm Post subject: Re: Bolt on irs on beetle? |
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| eye wood doo the imore system for the bolt on. |
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74 Thing
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| Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 1:46 pm Post subject: Re: Bolt on irs on beetle? |
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| Any links to that iMore system? |
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Steve Arndt
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Vanapplebomb
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| Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 5:13 pm Post subject: Re: Bolt on irs on beetle? |
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| earthquake wrote: |
...What if you made a bracket that bolts on the TH is parallel to the spring plate, then modify the inboard mount for a bushing that is at a right angle to the spring plate.
That way the arm movement would only be vertical... |
The only thing that would change would be the rate at which the pivot bushings wear out. Probably fine for a street where you don’t see much travel, but off road with increased suspension movement, you would likely pay for that. All that would results is extra stress from twisting the inner pivot if set parallel. Your arm will still rotate around the axis between the spring plate and inner pivot points, which is what causes the camber and toe change as the suspension cycles.
FYI, this is how the bus was set up, so it wouldn’t be the first time, and it has been done many a time since.
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Rome
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Steve Arndt
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| Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:25 am Post subject: Re: Bolt on irs on beetle? |
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Interesting. That kit has parallel pivots. It should have no camber change through the suspension cycle. Look at the ridiculous amount of camber in this pic:
[img]http://imohr.com.br/system/php/wideimage/images.php?arquivo=filemanager/files/produtos_fotos_175_556_1540497179.jpg[/img]
https://imohr.com.br/system/php/wideimage/images.p...497179.jpg
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Vanapplebomb
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| Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2020 6:44 pm Post subject: Re: Bolt on irs on beetle? |
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| Steve Arndt wrote: |
Interesting. That kit has parallel pivots. It should have no camber change through the suspension cycle. Look at the ridiculous amount of camber in this pic:
[img]http://imohr.com.br/system/php/wideimage/images.php?arquivo=filemanager/files/produtos_fotos_175_556_1540497179.jpg[/img]
https://imohr.com.br/system/php/wideimage/images.p...497179.jpg |
Again, having a parallel pivot doesn’t change the geometry of the suspension cycling. It is still a semi trailing arm. All that changes when varying the angle of the pivot is how much the bushing must deflect to accommodate the misalignment that will occur as the suspension cycles.
The only way that the suspension could have no camber change is if the inner and outer pivot points are on an axis that is both perpendicular to the long axis of the car and parallel with the road, aka, a trailing arm. The set linked offers neither. Note the stock outer pivot location, which with the torsion tube eliminates the possibility of the pivots being on an axis perpendicular to the long axis of the car. Secondly, note that the inner pivot appears to be higher than usual, which would shoot down the possibility of the axis being parallel to the road.
Also, trailing arms are only really useful when extreme range of motion is required, which would otherwise result in excessive camber/toe change in a semi trailing arm setup. As such, you only really see them used for extreme off road applications. On the street, a trailing arm is all wrong. You want that camber change you get with a semi trailing arm as the suspension cycles when the body rolls. A trailing arm suspension has compromised cornering ability because the camber remains fixed relative to the car body. As a result, the tires end up being raked in the wrong direction as you go around a corner.
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74 Thing
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