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ConcreteAce Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2005 Posts: 856 Location: Spring, Texas
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Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:28 pm Post subject: 3 tab hood vs. 4 tab hood clarification |
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I have tried searching and all I have found is a ton of confusing information in various threads.
A little help clearing this up would be awesome.
This 3 tab hood with the three holes in the triangle like in this picture
Is it correct that it was used until 52?
And this 4 tab with two holes in the triangle like in this picture
Is it correct 53-55?
Picture credit from thesamba gallery _________________ Ethan Dunlap
Spring, Texas
'51 Deluxe
'61 Build
'68 Turbo Diesel Baja
'64 Ghia Vert
'61 Baja Build |
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glutamodo The Android
Joined: July 13, 2004 Posts: 26323 Location: Douglas, WY
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Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:06 pm Post subject: Re: 3 tab hood vs. 4 tab hood clarification |
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When VW dropped the 4-tab hood they sort of kept it but wrapped the outer emblem around a plastic insert that had three pins underneath it.
These three pins sat on a FLAT section of the hood just like before.
(now, I'm not sure if there was a reinforcement plate totally on the underside on earlier hoods, but as for 60-61, there was not)
Then in early model year 1963, the emblem was re-designed, the 3-pin pattern was slightly enlarged and the area of the hood was "punched up"
This is why the early 3-pin hood may be the rarest of the VW hoods, It lasted from midyear 1961, all of 62 and just a bit into 1963 production year. (same time as the Wolfsburg Crest was dropped)
My 62 did not have the original hood on it when I got the car, it was later and had the larger "punched up" emblem on it. After that hood got damaged, I turned back to my first VW, a later 61 with the correct hood. That is what is on it now and this is what it looks like for the emblem:
_________________ Andy T.
IMAGE NOTE: It has been noted that Chrome based browsers may have issues in displaying my vast image library, which use non-secure links and are on an FTP server. Images should still be viewable if the link is clicked though.
I do not know how to fix this. All I can say is it all works fine for me with what I use, Firefox. |
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finster Samba Member
Joined: May 26, 2012 Posts: 7951 Location: north o' the border
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Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 12:54 am Post subject: Re: 3 tab hood vs. 4 tab hood clarification |
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the three tab with the triangular gusset is pre oct 52. then changed to 4 tab with triangular gusset. can't remember when the triangle was omitted...but you are probably correct with 55 (april/may) _________________ "we're here on Earth to fart around" kurt vonnegut
nothing lasts, nothing is finished, and nothing is perfect...
Last edited by finster on Fri Jul 31, 2020 6:57 am; edited 1 time in total |
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rod_vw Samba Member
Joined: December 20, 2006 Posts: 416 Location: Shropshire, UK
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Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:39 am Post subject: Re: 3 tab hood vs. 4 tab hood clarification |
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glutamodo wrote: |
When VW dropped the 4-tab hood they sort of kept it but wrapped the outer emblem around a plastic insert that had three pins underneath it.
These three pins sat on a FLAT section of the hood just like before.
(now, I'm not sure if there was a reinforcement plate totally on the underside on earlier hoods, but as for 60-61, there was not)
Then in early model year 1963, the emblem was re-designed, the 3-pin pattern was slightly enlarged and the area of the hood was "punched up"
This is why the early 3-pin hood may be the rarest of the VW hoods, It lasted from midyear 1961, all of 62 and just a bit into 1963 production year. (same time as the Wolfsburg Crest was dropped)
My 62 did not have the original hood on it when I got the car, it was later and had the larger "punched up" emblem on it. After that hood got damaged, I turned back to my first VW, a later 61 with the correct hood. That is what is on it now and this is what it looks like for the emblem:
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You are referring to the type secured with grooved pins, the OP is talking about the early ones with split tabs that are bent to retain the badge. _________________ Rod,
Please visit http://www.historicvws.org.uk
https://www.facebook.com/historicvwclub/
1946 Beetle (Back on the road after over 50 years! Last major outing - Hessisch Oldendorf 2022)
2016 T6 Selfbuild Camper and a LWB MAN TGE in build. |
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glutamodo The Android
Joined: July 13, 2004 Posts: 26323 Location: Douglas, WY
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Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 6:17 am Post subject: Re: 3 tab hood vs. 4 tab hood clarification |
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Argh, bugger, you're totally right. I didn't notice I was in a Forum I seldom look at. I'm used to answering this question on the 58-67 Forum. _________________ Andy T.
IMAGE NOTE: It has been noted that Chrome based browsers may have issues in displaying my vast image library, which use non-secure links and are on an FTP server. Images should still be viewable if the link is clicked though.
I do not know how to fix this. All I can say is it all works fine for me with what I use, Firefox. |
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Splitdog Samba Split Personality
Joined: February 16, 2004 Posts: 4125 Location: Planet VW
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Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:38 pm Post subject: Re: 3 tab hood vs. 4 tab hood clarification |
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finster wrote: |
the three tab with the triangular gusset is pre oct 52. then changed to 4 tab with triangular gusset. can't remember when the triangle was omitted...but you are probably correct with 55 (april/may) |
Not sure about that. Zwitters had the 3 prong and early VW emblem well into '53. Even though PR says Oct. There is a thread around here on it somewhere..... _________________ CH³NO²
Z = z² + C
Der Blitzkrieg Kafers
#notacallooker |
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ZENVWDRIVER Samba Member
Joined: November 07, 2008 Posts: 3340 Location: N.E. Oklahoma
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Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 7:38 pm Post subject: Re: 3 tab hood vs. 4 tab hood clarification |
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finster wrote: |
the three tab with the triangular gusset is pre oct 52. then changed to 4 tab with triangular gusset. can't remember when the triangle was omitted...but you are probably correct with 55 (april/may) |
i'd say, finster is pretty close, if not correct - pre 10/52 used the solid emblem, had the triangular reinforcement with a 3 tab...
… then, changed to a 4 tab emblem with triangular reinforcement ( that reinforcement used until sometime in 1954) - I can look all this up in Garwood's, Car of the century, but want to spare all the crybabies, the exact details, for now - will look it all up if needed - z _________________ 5/50, pastel green 11G - SOLD
8/50, gray 11A Beetle
6/52, pastel green 11C - SOLD
11/4/52, black Zwitter - SOLD to my little bro.
1954 Porsche, pre A, with VW 36 horse- SOLD
1/54, black 11C Beetle - TRADED
2/55 Iceland green Beetle, on a 1965 pan
3/55 113 Beetle, stratos silver
1955 Messerschmitt KR175 - SOLD, sadly
1960 single cab
1962 SO33, with SO 42 interior
9/63 Pacific blue, Ghia
'87 Toyota MR2
'02 WestFORDia E-150, GAVE TO OUR SON
All super-heroes, wear a MASK |
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Splitdog Samba Split Personality
Joined: February 16, 2004 Posts: 4125 Location: Planet VW
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Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:30 pm Post subject: Re: 3 tab hood vs. 4 tab hood clarification |
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Like I said earlier , there is a thread here with zwitters that have three prong solid emblems stock. Up until Jan or feb.
"i sold my 11/4/52 Zwitter last year and it also had a solid VW emblem...the story i got was that emblem ended with the start of the Zwitter change and some left-over solid emblems made it onto some early 1952 Zwitters." - Zenvwdriver. _________________ CH³NO²
Z = z² + C
Der Blitzkrieg Kafers
#notacallooker |
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ZENVWDRIVER Samba Member
Joined: November 07, 2008 Posts: 3340 Location: N.E. Oklahoma
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Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:38 am Post subject: Re: 3 tab hood vs. 4 tab hood clarification |
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… must admit that a real-practical expert researcher - bwaz shows this 3 tab, solid emblem in his gallery - from when he restored his zwitter - note the indented horizontal line separating the V and the W - according to bwaz this was a zwitter-only solid, 3 tab, with that separation - without that separation, i'm gunna' say, that was an early KDF-dash style, early'52 solid, 3 tab …
… So, i'm gunna' change my opinion - now, gunna say, with a degree of certainty, that the 4 tab began with the 1954 model - will continue my research - having too much fun - z
_________________ 5/50, pastel green 11G - SOLD
8/50, gray 11A Beetle
6/52, pastel green 11C - SOLD
11/4/52, black Zwitter - SOLD to my little bro.
1954 Porsche, pre A, with VW 36 horse- SOLD
1/54, black 11C Beetle - TRADED
2/55 Iceland green Beetle, on a 1965 pan
3/55 113 Beetle, stratos silver
1955 Messerschmitt KR175 - SOLD, sadly
1960 single cab
1962 SO33, with SO 42 interior
9/63 Pacific blue, Ghia
'87 Toyota MR2
'02 WestFORDia E-150, GAVE TO OUR SON
All super-heroes, wear a MASK |
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Splitdog Samba Split Personality
Joined: February 16, 2004 Posts: 4125 Location: Planet VW
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Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2020 12:30 pm Post subject: Re: 3 tab hood vs. 4 tab hood clarification |
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You're welcome. _________________ CH³NO²
Z = z² + C
Der Blitzkrieg Kafers
#notacallooker |
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ZENVWDRIVER Samba Member
Joined: November 07, 2008 Posts: 3340 Location: N.E. Oklahoma
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Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2020 1:32 pm Post subject: Re: 3 tab hood vs. 4 tab hood clarification |
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Splitdog wrote: |
You're welcome. |
… Oh, thanks bwaz. _________________ 5/50, pastel green 11G - SOLD
8/50, gray 11A Beetle
6/52, pastel green 11C - SOLD
11/4/52, black Zwitter - SOLD to my little bro.
1954 Porsche, pre A, with VW 36 horse- SOLD
1/54, black 11C Beetle - TRADED
2/55 Iceland green Beetle, on a 1965 pan
3/55 113 Beetle, stratos silver
1955 Messerschmitt KR175 - SOLD, sadly
1960 single cab
1962 SO33, with SO 42 interior
9/63 Pacific blue, Ghia
'87 Toyota MR2
'02 WestFORDia E-150, GAVE TO OUR SON
All super-heroes, wear a MASK |
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Splitdog Samba Split Personality
Joined: February 16, 2004 Posts: 4125 Location: Planet VW
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Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2020 1:43 pm Post subject: Re: 3 tab hood vs. 4 tab hood clarification |
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You can bash me, but I'm here to help you. _________________ CH³NO²
Z = z² + C
Der Blitzkrieg Kafers
#notacallooker |
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ZENVWDRIVER Samba Member
Joined: November 07, 2008 Posts: 3340 Location: N.E. Oklahoma
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Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2020 1:56 pm Post subject: Re: 3 tab hood vs. 4 tab hood clarification |
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Splitdog wrote: |
You can bash me, but I'm here to help you. |
... thanks for your (usual) help, Splitdog - i'll keep your kindness in mind - z
... looked in Garwood's volume and (surprisingly) could find nothing about the change from the solid hood emblem to the 4 tab - so, I looked in the bug section at BUGHAUS.COM, where they list the 4 tab hood emblem application from 1953 to 1959 - i'll make that note in my copy of Car of the Century... _________________ 5/50, pastel green 11G - SOLD
8/50, gray 11A Beetle
6/52, pastel green 11C - SOLD
11/4/52, black Zwitter - SOLD to my little bro.
1954 Porsche, pre A, with VW 36 horse- SOLD
1/54, black 11C Beetle - TRADED
2/55 Iceland green Beetle, on a 1965 pan
3/55 113 Beetle, stratos silver
1955 Messerschmitt KR175 - SOLD, sadly
1960 single cab
1962 SO33, with SO 42 interior
9/63 Pacific blue, Ghia
'87 Toyota MR2
'02 WestFORDia E-150, GAVE TO OUR SON
All super-heroes, wear a MASK |
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Splitdog Samba Split Personality
Joined: February 16, 2004 Posts: 4125 Location: Planet VW
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Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2020 1:59 pm Post subject: Re: 3 tab hood vs. 4 tab hood clarification |
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ZENVWDRIVER wrote: |
BUGHAUS.COM, where they list the 4 tab hood emblem application from 1953 to 1959 - i'll make that note in my copy of Car of the Century... |
_________________ CH³NO²
Z = z² + C
Der Blitzkrieg Kafers
#notacallooker |
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ZENVWDRIVER Samba Member
Joined: November 07, 2008 Posts: 3340 Location: N.E. Oklahoma
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Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:35 pm Post subject: Re: 3 tab hood vs. 4 tab hood clarification |
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ZENVWDRIVER wrote: |
Splitdog wrote: |
You can bash me, but I'm here to help you. |
... thanks for your (usual) help, Splitdog - i'll keep your kindness in mind - z
... looked in Garwood's volume and (surprisingly) could find nothing about the change from the solid hood emblem to the 4 tab - so, I looked in the bug section at BUGHAUS.COM, where they list the 4 tab hood emblem application from 1953 to 1959 - i'll make that note in my copy of Car of the Century... |
... looked at 1953 type 1 for sale, in the classifieds and the perfect picture was shown on 55 SPLITTY's ad - 1/53 zwitter for sale , with a picture of the underside of the front hood - showing 4 tab holes and triangular reinforcement - good enough for me - 1952 zwitter showing a 3 tab emblem as in bwaz's pictures and others.
I'D SAY THE 4 TAB FRONT HOOD EMBLEM BEGAN 1/53 (I updated that info in my copy of Car of the Century) - z
_________________ 5/50, pastel green 11G - SOLD
8/50, gray 11A Beetle
6/52, pastel green 11C - SOLD
11/4/52, black Zwitter - SOLD to my little bro.
1954 Porsche, pre A, with VW 36 horse- SOLD
1/54, black 11C Beetle - TRADED
2/55 Iceland green Beetle, on a 1965 pan
3/55 113 Beetle, stratos silver
1955 Messerschmitt KR175 - SOLD, sadly
1960 single cab
1962 SO33, with SO 42 interior
9/63 Pacific blue, Ghia
'87 Toyota MR2
'02 WestFORDia E-150, GAVE TO OUR SON
All super-heroes, wear a MASK |
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sweden Samba Member
Joined: May 30, 2006 Posts: 227 Location: sweden
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Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2020 3:13 am Post subject: Re: 3 tab hood vs. 4 tab hood clarification |
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ZENVWDRIVER wrote: |
ZENVWDRIVER wrote: |
Splitdog wrote: |
You can bash me, but I'm here to help you. |
... thanks for your (usual) help, Splitdog - i'll keep your kindness in mind - z
... looked in Garwood's volume and (surprisingly) could find nothing about the change from the solid hood emblem to the 4 tab - so, I looked in the bug section at BUGHAUS.COM, where they list the 4 tab hood emblem application from 1953 to 1959 - i'll make that note in my copy of Car of the Century... |
... looked at 1953 type 1 for sale, in the classifieds and the perfect picture was shown on 55 SPLITTY's ad - 1/53 zwitter for sale , with a picture of the underside of the front hood - showing 4 tab holes and triangular reinforcement - good enough for me - 1952 zwitter showing a 3 tab emblem as in bwaz's pictures and others.
I'D SAY THE 4 TAB FRONT HOOD EMBLEM BEGAN 1/53 (I updated that info in my copy of Car of the Century) - z
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This front hood is 1954 and later. _________________ Me and my sons cars Typ1 -49 -50 -51 -52 -52 -53 -53 -54 -55 -55 -56 -56 -57 -58 cab -64 cab
T3 TriStar airride with Audi 1,8T engine and Porsche 996 gearbox. |
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ZENVWDRIVER Samba Member
Joined: November 07, 2008 Posts: 3340 Location: N.E. Oklahoma
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Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2020 10:56 am Post subject: Re: 3 tab hood vs. 4 tab hood clarification |
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sweden wrote: |
ZENVWDRIVER wrote: |
ZENVWDRIVER wrote: |
Splitdog wrote: |
You can bash me, but I'm here to help you. |
... thanks for your (usual) help, Splitdog - i'll keep your kindness in mind - z
... looked in Garwood's volume and (surprisingly) could find nothing about the change from the solid hood emblem to the 4 tab - so, I looked in the bug section at BUGHAUS.COM, where they list the 4 tab hood emblem application from 1953 to 1959 - i'll make that note in my copy of Car of the Century... |
... looked at 1953 type 1 for sale, in the classifieds and the perfect picture was shown on 55 SPLITTY's ad - 1/53 zwitter for sale , with a picture of the underside of the front hood - showing 4 tab holes and triangular reinforcement - good enough for me - 1952 zwitter showing a 3 tab emblem as in bwaz's pictures and others.
I'D SAY THE 4 TAB FRONT HOOD EMBLEM BEGAN 1/53 (I updated that info in my copy of Car of the Century) - z
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This front hood is 1954 and later. |
So, Sweden - you gunna' just leave me hangin'? - when did the solid, 3 tab type one hood emblem cease AND the 4 tab begin? What makes that a 1954 and not a 1953 front hood? How do you know|? many thanks - z _________________ 5/50, pastel green 11G - SOLD
8/50, gray 11A Beetle
6/52, pastel green 11C - SOLD
11/4/52, black Zwitter - SOLD to my little bro.
1954 Porsche, pre A, with VW 36 horse- SOLD
1/54, black 11C Beetle - TRADED
2/55 Iceland green Beetle, on a 1965 pan
3/55 113 Beetle, stratos silver
1955 Messerschmitt KR175 - SOLD, sadly
1960 single cab
1962 SO33, with SO 42 interior
9/63 Pacific blue, Ghia
'87 Toyota MR2
'02 WestFORDia E-150, GAVE TO OUR SON
All super-heroes, wear a MASK |
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sweden Samba Member
Joined: May 30, 2006 Posts: 227 Location: sweden
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Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2020 11:26 am Post subject: Re: 3 tab hood vs. 4 tab hood clarification |
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The triangular reinforcement say it all.
The one on our pictures only have two hole and both in same size.
1954 come the tab with 2 hole in same size.
If it would be a 1953 the tab shall have 3 hole in 2 diffrent sizes.
Pre 1953 it was 3 hole in same sizes.
Problem is only what month all the changes come. But soon i have the anwser. _________________ Me and my sons cars Typ1 -49 -50 -51 -52 -52 -53 -53 -54 -55 -55 -56 -56 -57 -58 cab -64 cab
T3 TriStar airride with Audi 1,8T engine and Porsche 996 gearbox.
Last edited by sweden on Mon Aug 03, 2020 2:29 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Suboval Samba Member
Joined: September 15, 2003 Posts: 794
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Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2020 3:36 pm Post subject: Re: 3 tab hood vs. 4 tab hood clarification |
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Maybe this will help:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/1717389.jpg _________________ It all works on paper.
There's two things we learn from history:
1.) History repeats itself.
2.) We don't learn from history. |
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Splitdog Samba Split Personality
Joined: February 16, 2004 Posts: 4125 Location: Planet VW
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Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2020 3:43 pm Post subject: Re: 3 tab hood vs. 4 tab hood clarification |
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That is waayy off. Restoring a car proper isn't so easy, eh? _________________ CH³NO²
Z = z² + C
Der Blitzkrieg Kafers
#notacallooker |
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