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1967 front seat belt labels
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harrymarlin
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 1:43 pm    Post subject: 1967 front seat belt labels Reply with quote

In my attempt to be *way* too nit-picky with my 1967 Beetle convertible, I started looking at my seat belts. I thought I would share a bit of information I have I have found during my investigation.

Seat belt webbing
I found out, because of regulations, all of the US seat belt webbing pretty much currently looks the same. I expanded out to other countries to find a similar webbing to original, and found some in the UK. A company called FDTS has a grey "ladder webbing" (code ZV), which was the closest I found to what I originally had. They also have a black "Pebbing webbing" (code Z1) which is very similar to the webbing used later (in Beetles and in Porsches, I believe), and in back seat belts. I was interested in this, as I have a rear lobster claw seat belts from a 1971 Beetle I was using in my rear seat.

Seat belt labels
I collected a few pictures of labels used in the correct seat belts (for those seat belts I could find still with labels!), and it appears as though they were manufactured in 1967 and 1966. The labels themselves were very similar to each other, but showed a different part number, and different modification number between convertibles (143 1509 061 KLIPPIN - MOD II) and sedans (111 857 706 KLIPPIN - MOD I). Klippin is a seat belt manufacturer. It is interesting that the convertible part number is a Ghia part number, perhaps because the shorter seat belt base was initially made for a Ghia?

1967 Sedan, manufactured in 1966:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


1967 Sedan (black webbing, rather than grey - from a Ghia?), manufactured in 1966. Courtesy of John Henshaw.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


1967 Convertible (same question as above), manufactured in 1966. This one is taped down, as it was barely holding on. Courtesy of John Henshaw.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


1967 Convertible, manufactured in 1967. Courtesy of Jos Hall, with measurement information.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Using that information, I had a new reproduction label designed and printed on original looking material (as close as I could find, courtesy of customcouturelabelco on Etsy), thanks to an Adobe Illustrator design from Studio 28B. Note, my convertible is from early 1966, so I made my label based on that (so, manufactured in 1966).
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I then had Safety Restore reweb my seat belts and put on the new labels, according to what I saw original (stitched under the fold over webbing, and then the bottom of the label itself folded over and stitched from underneath. Here is the final result:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I only needed two of these reproduction 1967 convertible Beetle front seat belt labels from 1966 (a fairly specific item), and, as I had to order a lot (50, in this case), I have a lot left. If anyone else is in need or would like so, please PM me with your address, and I'll see about sending a couple in the mail to you (no charge - I had to get them anyway!). If you would like the Adobe Illustrator file, I can send that as well (in case you want to change the part number and modification number to make your own for another 1967 Beetle - you may need a graphic designers help, though).

So, I just wanted to share my journey, and the results, in case anyone needs to do something similar in the future. Thanks for reading this far!
_________________
-Harry
--------------------------
1967 Ruby Red Convertible Beetle ("Becky")
ISO Albuquerque "Imported Motors" dealership paraphernalia


Last edited by harrymarlin on Sat Aug 15, 2020 4:34 am; edited 2 times in total
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harrymarlin
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 4:01 pm    Post subject: Re: 1967 front seat belt labels Reply with quote

BTW, for anyone who is interested, this font is similar to the font used on the engine tin stencils, DIN - a font developed by the Germans in 1931, and used in manufacturing/engineering applications: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DIN_1451?wprov=sfla1
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-Harry
--------------------------
1967 Ruby Red Convertible Beetle ("Becky")
ISO Albuquerque "Imported Motors" dealership paraphernalia
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old DKP driver
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 6:49 pm    Post subject: Re: 1967 front seat belt labels Reply with quote

Harry, that’s a great write up especially to something rarely thought of on
Any website forums.
Thanks for this!
Chris
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Adriel Rowley
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2020 11:39 am    Post subject: Re: 1967 front seat belt labels Reply with quote

harrymarlin wrote:
In my attempt to be *way* too nit-picky with my 1967 Beetle convertible, I started looking at my seat belts. I thought I would share a bit of information I have I have found during my investigation.


I don't see it as too much, simply what is needed.

harrymarlin wrote:
Seat belt webbing
I found out, because of regulations, all of the US seat belt webbing pretty much currently looks the same. I expanded out to other countries to find a similar webbing to original, and found some in the UK. A company called FDTS has a grey "ladder webbing" (code ZV), which was the closest I found to what I originally had. They also have a black "Pebbing webbing" (code Z1) which is very similar to the webbing used later (in Beetles and in Porsches, I believe), and in back seat belts. I was interested in this, as I have a rear lobster claw seat belts from a 1971 Beetle I was using in my rear seat.


I looked on FDTS's webpage, not finding webbing at all, how did you acquire it?

harrymarlin wrote:
So, I just wanted to share my journey, and the results, in case anyone needs to do something similar in the future. Thanks for reading this far!


I been wanting to replicate the original belts as part of what I remember about Dad's Beetle, soft unlike the slick and hard belts sold as replacements. I had yet to look into webbing, now thanks to you sharing this journey, I will not have to. I look forward to reading more.
_________________
Dad's 1964 Beetle purchased September 1968.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9252810#9252810

1971 Sunroof Squareback with Fuel Injection
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=219811&highlight=squareback+rejuvenation
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harrymarlin
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2020 12:14 pm    Post subject: Re: 1967 front seat belt labels Reply with quote

Adriel Rowley wrote:
I looked on FDTS's webpage, not finding webbing at all, how did you acquire it?


I been wanting to replicate the original belts as part of what I remember about Dad's Beetle, soft unlike the slick and hard belts sold as replacements. I had yet to look into webbing, now thanks to you sharing this journey, I will not have to. I look forward to reading more.


I was directed to FDTS from a guy on a Porsche forum (thanks, Jos!) who was selling webbing for Porsches, but didn't have what I wanted. I didn't look too closely at their website, although I think they have significantly updated it since I started looking, but here is the set of samples they sent me for review:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


They told me they don't normally sell just the webbing (they do restorations of seat belts) or do much business out of the UK, but they were willing to send webbing to me at a reasonable price when I asked. I don't think you are going to find the right looking webbing for sale in the US.
_________________
-Harry
--------------------------
1967 Ruby Red Convertible Beetle ("Becky")
ISO Albuquerque "Imported Motors" dealership paraphernalia
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Adriel Rowley
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2020 2:20 pm    Post subject: Re: 1967 front seat belt labels Reply with quote

harrymarlin wrote:
Adriel Rowley wrote:
I looked on FDTS's webpage, not finding webbing at all, how did you acquire it?


I been wanting to replicate the original belts as part of what I remember about Dad's Beetle, soft unlike the slick and hard belts sold as replacements. I had yet to look into webbing, now thanks to you sharing this journey, I will not have to. I look forward to reading more.


I was directed to FDTS from a guy on a Porsche forum (thanks, Jos!) who was selling webbing for Porsches, but didn't have what I wanted. I didn't look too closely at their website, although I think they have significantly updated it since I started looking, but here is the set of samples they sent me for review:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


They told me they don't normally sell just the webbing (they do restorations of seat belts) or do much business out of the UK, but they were willing to send webbing to me at a reasonable price when I asked. I don't think you are going to find the right looking webbing for sale in the US.


Harry, I am sorry I upset you, far from my intentions, was only trying to show appreciation; I would again however seems I shouldn't as only make it worse.
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Dad's 1964 Beetle purchased September 1968.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9252810#9252810

1971 Sunroof Squareback with Fuel Injection
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=219811&highlight=squareback+rejuvenation
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harrymarlin
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2020 3:08 pm    Post subject: Re: 1967 front seat belt labels Reply with quote

Adriel Rowley wrote:
Harry, I am sorry I upset you, far from my intentions, was only trying to show appreciation; I would again however seems I shouldn't as only make it worse.


I am certainly not upset by anything you said - I think you asked a valid question, so I hope the additional information I gave was helpful. I think FDTS has a very good option, and I think anyone who is looking for webbing closely matching original will need to look outside of the US (at places such as the UK).

Do you have any pictures of 1964 webbing to start looking for matches?
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-Harry
--------------------------
1967 Ruby Red Convertible Beetle ("Becky")
ISO Albuquerque "Imported Motors" dealership paraphernalia
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2020 10:25 pm    Post subject: Re: 1967 front seat belt labels Reply with quote

harrymarlin wrote:
Adriel Rowley wrote:
Harry, I am sorry I upset you, far from my intentions, was only trying to show appreciation; I would again however seems I shouldn't as only make it worse.


I am certainly not upset by anything you said - I think you asked a valid question, so I hope the additional information I gave was helpful. I think FDTS has a very good option, and I think anyone who is looking for webbing closely matching original will need to look outside of the US (at places such as the UK).

Do you have any pictures of 1964 webbing to start looking for matches?


Okay, good was just a misunderstanding. Yes, now know need to contact them for samples.

I have the original front belts, the driver's is so warn not sure I trust it. Might be ZFA or KA.

What I don't understand is why Dad's Sister walked off with the pair of belts Dad bought for putting in the rear (then bio "mother" left with us, not saying where she had gone). IIRC had close to the same weave despite being just over 20 years later. At least have the dealer plate frames, Dad took them off in '68 and so in great original condition (were in the same box).
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Dad's 1964 Beetle purchased September 1968.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9252810#9252810

1971 Sunroof Squareback with Fuel Injection
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=219811&highlight=squareback+rejuvenation
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67conv
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2020 2:58 pm    Post subject: Re: 1967 front seat belt labels Reply with quote

Harry, Thank you posting such an esoteric, yet informative narrative on the quest for webbing of original 1967 era Klippan seat belts and their labels! I applaud your willingness to "dive in, deep"...Also for the link to the German DIN standards for lettering and stenciling. Awesome! Great stuff for us originality geeks!! Much appreciated. John
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1967 VW Convertible owned /driven 31 years
1957 DKW 3=6 owned / driven 17 years
2002 Mazda Protege5 - daily driver, 245K miles!

previously owned: 72 "Baja Champion SE" Spec. Edition Super Beetle bought NEW; 79 Convertible bought NEW; 67 type 1 savanna beige; 67 2.0 911S; 73 2.4 911T; 63 356 T6 B Cabriolet; 64 356 SC sunroof coupe; 72 Type-3 Squareback; 68 + 69 Type-3 Fastbacks; 87 Vanagon GL Wasserboxer
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Jos.Hall
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2020 7:00 pm    Post subject: Re: 1967 front seat belt labels Reply with quote

Guys, Harry may not realize this but his leg work not only on these seat belts/labels but on every aspect of his restoration, is going to save a LOT of headaches trying to get the details right.

My hope is that he will continue to share and document his research and processes regardless of view counts or comments.

Harry sent me a few of his labels and I want to share how incredibly accurate they are. My car was built in '66 as well so his adjusted date is appropriate for my car. This is a spare set of vert seat belts that I have because I can't have just one of anything.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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Snotraveler
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:01 pm    Post subject: Re: 1967 front seat belt labels Reply with quote

This is the tag on my 1967 sedan. 111 857 705
Just thought I’d share.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:56 pm    Post subject: Re: 1967 front seat belt labels Reply with quote

Snotraveler wrote:
This is the tag on my 1967 sedan. 111 857 705
Just thought I’d share.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Yes sir. I'd assume that's from your drivers side on a sedan. The ending of an odd number is drivers side and the even number is passenger side. So the 706 would be a passenger side reel.
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harrymarlin
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:12 pm    Post subject: Re: 1967 front seat belt labels Reply with quote

Jos.Hall wrote:
Yes sir. I'd assume that's from your drivers side on a sedan. The ending of an odd number is drivers side and the even number is passenger side. So the 706 would be a passenger side reel.


Oh my goodness! How did I not know this up to this point? It looks like I only have labels for one side of the car!

<sigh> oh, well. Goid information, Jos! Thanks!
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-Harry
--------------------------
1967 Ruby Red Convertible Beetle ("Becky")
ISO Albuquerque "Imported Motors" dealership paraphernalia
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:16 pm    Post subject: Re: 1967 front seat belt labels Reply with quote

Yes, it is the drivers side. So many little “details” to these cars! Thanks for the info.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:26 pm    Post subject: Re: 1967 front seat belt labels Reply with quote

harrymarlin wrote:
Jos.Hall wrote:
Yes sir. I'd assume that's from your drivers side on a sedan. The ending of an odd number is drivers side and the even number is passenger side. So the 706 would be a passenger side reel.


Oh my goodness! How did I not know this up to this point? It looks like I only have labels for one side of the car!

<sigh> oh, well. Goid information, Jos! Thanks!


Harry, my mind must not have been working all those times we were discussing it. The nomenclature only triggered in my mind when I saw the 705 and the 706 next to each other. I believe the only difference between left and right seat belts though is the adapter bracket.
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