| Author |
Message |
ncpi
Samba Member
Joined: May 10, 2020
Posts: 208
Location: TN & FL
|
 Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2020 5:17 pm Post subject: Help de-bugging charging system on my new Thing |
 |
|
Hi everyone,
I picked up my new Thing yesterday.
Got it home, went to drive and found the "generator" light on.
Got it home, went to drive and found the "generator" was light on. Voltage at charge was running about 12.9V at the battery. Virtually the same with the car off. Did a full charge on the battery to re-check and its not charging (about 13V sitting and 12.9V running. Frankly, I can't be sure it worked before as it was only run twice by the previous owner in the year he owned it. It looks to have an Alternator. See pics. I can't even be sure the wiring is correct. Can anyone supply a wiring diagram for the Alternator/Regulator circuit and some troubleshooting ideas to isolate between the Alt and Reg (or wiring)?
Unfortunately, my Bentley manual is at my other home.
TIA, Bill |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Semper_Dad
Samba Member
Joined: May 14, 2005
Posts: 3510
Location: Indiana
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2020 5:57 pm Post subject: Re: Help de-bugging charging system on my new Thing |
|
|
Haven't seen a alternator with an external regulator in quite a while. Found this in the gallery, hope it helps
Looks as if the alternator is missing the ground wire. But then again, it make be grounded via the case.
_________________
Walküre Restoration Thread: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=737492 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
FJBLF
Samba Member
Joined: January 10, 2016
Posts: 213
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2020 6:47 pm Post subject: Re: Help de-bugging charging system on my new Thing |
|
|
| ncpi wrote: |
Hi everyone,
I picked up my new Thing yesterday. |
Link
_________________
1972 VW 181 SAFARI 1500 cc GRB Trans-axle |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
FJBLF
Samba Member
Joined: January 10, 2016
Posts: 213
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2020 6:48 pm Post subject: Re: Help de-bugging charging system on my new Thing |
|
|
| ncpi wrote: |
Hi everyone,
I picked up my new Thing yesterday. |
Link
_________________
1972 VW 181 SAFARI 1500 cc GRB Trans-axle |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ncpi
Samba Member
Joined: May 10, 2020
Posts: 208
Location: TN & FL
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2020 4:28 am Post subject: Re: Help de-bugging charging system on my new Thing |
|
|
| Semper_Dad wrote: |
Haven't seen a alternator with an external regulator in quite a while. Found this in the gallery, hope it helps
Looks as if the alternator is missing the ground wire. But then again, it make be grounded via the case. |
Thanks Semper_Dad...exactly what I was looking for!!!!
It does look like a missing wire from the Alternator.
Now, If I can figure out the pin-out of the Regulator I'll be all set. It might be marked, the label is shot though. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ncpi
Samba Member
Joined: May 10, 2020
Posts: 208
Location: TN & FL
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2020 4:38 am Post subject: Re: Help de-bugging charging system on my new Thing |
|
|
| Thanks FJBLF for the 2 video links. The first one is extremely useful if I have to replace that Alternator. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
FJBLF
Samba Member
Joined: January 10, 2016
Posts: 213
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2020 9:22 am Post subject: Re: Help de-bugging charging system on my new Thing |
|
|
| ncpi wrote: |
| Thanks FJBLF for the 2 video links. The first one is extremely useful if I have to replace that Alternator. |
Most alternators have an internal regulator, so you would save that step. Mine is an early 181 so it has a generator that needs an external regulator. The replacement procedure between Generator and Alternator a the same.
Feel free to subscribe to my YouTube channel, lots of restoration and repair 181 videos there. You may also follow me on instagram @VW_181_beatriz
Good luck with your 181.
_________________
1972 VW 181 SAFARI 1500 cc GRB Trans-axle |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50338
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2020 9:37 pm Post subject: Re: Help de-bugging charging system on my new Thing |
|
|
| It looks to me like your regulator is for a generator. I would not think it would be a good match. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ncpi
Samba Member
Joined: May 10, 2020
Posts: 208
Location: TN & FL
|
| Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2020 5:45 am Post subject: Re: Help de-bugging charging system on my new Thing |
|
|
| FJBLF wrote: |
| ncpi wrote: |
| Thanks FJBLF for the 2 video links. The first one is extremely useful if I have to replace that Alternator. |
Most alternators have an internal regulator, so you would save that step. Mine is an early 181 so it has a generator that needs an external regulator. The replacement procedure between Generator and Alternator a the same.
Feel free to subscribe to my YouTube channel, lots of restoration and repair 181 videos there. You may also follow me on instagram @VW_181_beatriz
Good luck with your 181. |
Thanks, I will check out the YouTube channel!
WildThing... I think this may be true.
While I haven't been able to spend much time on it yet, here's what I found based on the wiring diagram above.
My regulator is marked B+, D+, DF and I can't read the other contact, I'll call it #4. No readable part number on the regulator. This seems to match the labeling on the regulator for a generator.
My regulator is connected as follows:
D+ goes to the big contact (output) of the Alternator (labeled B+ on the alternator wiring graphic)
B+ goes to the switched battery
DF goes to the front (parallel to the pulley) of the 3 pin alternator connector
#4 goes to the Gen Light
The other contacts on the alternator facing it from the pulley side):
Left Contact (labelled D in the wiring graphic) goes to Chassis GND
Right Contact (labelled D+ in the wiring graphic) is N/C
The regulator in the wiring graphic is marked I, A, S, F anyone know what they mean? How does A,F,S,I match up...I'm guessing:
A = Accessory (switched battery) - matches B+ on my regulator?
F = Field - matches DF on my regulator?
S = Stator ??? Sense ??? - matched D+ on my regulator?
I = Indicator - matches #4 on my regulator
Basically all a regulator does is control the field current (old mechanical ones just cycle on/off) to regulate the generator/alternator output voltage. So it "might" work.
What are the 3 contacts on my alternator for? Where should they go? Is there a different regulator for the Gen vs the early Alt that doesn't have an internal regulator? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50338
|
| Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2020 6:03 am Post subject: Re: Help de-bugging charging system on my new Thing |
|
|
| An alternator regulator typically has no B+ connection as the output power of the alternator does not pass through the regulator as it does with a generator. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ncpi
Samba Member
Joined: May 10, 2020
Posts: 208
Location: TN & FL
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2020 7:03 am Post subject: Re: Help de-bugging charging system on my new Thing |
|
|
After lots of searching and reading very old posts (I think the post I found it in was from 2007), I found this link of Speedy Jim's... (its a great website!!!)
http://www.nls.net/mp/volks/htm/elec.htm
It has the internal wiring (and appropriate pin-out labels) of the external regulator version of the Alternator (which appears to be a Motorola AL78 style). With it and the external regulator I have (which has the same connections, B+, D+ and DF) I will see if I can get this working. Since DF, the field connection on the alternator is not connected, I can see why it doesn't work. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ncpi
Samba Member
Joined: May 10, 2020
Posts: 208
Location: TN & FL
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 5:57 am Post subject: Re: Help de-bugging charging system on my new Thing |
|
|
Well...convinced myself I just have the incorrect regulator (a generator version) and need one for a externally regulated alternator. Did the tests to confirm that the alternator actually works.
Now that I figured thats why the alternator is not charging, I need the correct Voltage Regulator. I bought a AC Delco E695 from Amazon which I am waiting for (and is supposed to work with my AL78 (Motorola 043 903 023). It has a three pin connector which should be D-, D+ and DF. Does anyone know the pin-out? I have to make a cable assy up to match from the 3-pin Alternator connections. Also...does the blue Generator light wire connect to D+?
Link to part...
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000C9TZE6/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Thanks,
Bill |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ncpi
Samba Member
Joined: May 10, 2020
Posts: 208
Location: TN & FL
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 06, 2020 5:42 am Post subject: Re: Help de-bugging charging system on my new Thing |
|
|
In case anyone does a search, here's the answer...
The E695 regulator has a Red, Green and Brown wire.
Red goes to D+ (along with the blue Gen Light wire)
Brown goes to D-
Green goes to DF
Works perfectly. Its now charging the battery at 13.9V |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
