Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts  See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
Type 4 T-Stat test
Forum Index -> Performance/Engines/Transmissions Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
malcolm2
Samba Member


Joined: September 28, 2011
Posts: 736
Location: Mount Juliet, TN
malcolm2 is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 3:51 pm    Post subject: Type 4 T-Stat test Reply with quote

In the past I have done the boiling water in the kitchen test.... But today I realized that I had not tested my fully installed T-Stat. So I got out the heat gun and the laser thermometer and gave it a try.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


FLAPS and STAT ARE COLD.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



ADDED SOME HEAT.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


FLAPS MOVE.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
My Toys: '75 Porsche 914, '86 VW MK1 Cabriolet (sold), '92 Ski Nautique and now a 1972 VW Transporter Deluxe (under construction)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
busdaddy
Samba Member


Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 44714
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, Land of the giant flying moose!
busdaddy is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Type 4 T-Stat test Reply with quote

Looks pretty good, but why is the cable curved when it's in the hot position?, the lever doesn't look like it's in the full hot position (straight up), is the failsafe spring installed correctly?, looks like it's only letting the flaps open 3/4 way.

As for the hot water test (or heat gun), never ever test a thermostat out of it's bracket, it has to be corralled in the bracket to prevent stretching it past it's useful range of operation. What you've done there is fine, but I have seen others blow the thing up to 4+" long, they never recover from that.
_________________
Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.

Wanted, OG paint 1971 Niagara blue decklid.

Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
malcolm2
Samba Member


Joined: September 28, 2011
Posts: 736
Location: Mount Juliet, TN
malcolm2 is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 5:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Type 4 T-Stat test Reply with quote

I think the curved cable in the picture is the excess. I wrapped it around stuff.
_________________
My Toys: '75 Porsche 914, '86 VW MK1 Cabriolet (sold), '92 Ski Nautique and now a 1972 VW Transporter Deluxe (under construction)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
busdaddy
Samba Member


Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 44714
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, Land of the giant flying moose!
busdaddy is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 5:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Type 4 T-Stat test Reply with quote

I'm referring to the lower section, it doesn't appear to be under much tension, yet the flaps aren't fully open, the moustrap spring on the crossbar should be pulling on it hard enough to almost straighten it out.
_________________
Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.

Wanted, OG paint 1971 Niagara blue decklid.

Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
malcolm2
Samba Member


Joined: September 28, 2011
Posts: 736
Location: Mount Juliet, TN
malcolm2 is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 5:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Type 4 T-Stat test Reply with quote

Pretty straight....


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
My Toys: '75 Porsche 914, '86 VW MK1 Cabriolet (sold), '92 Ski Nautique and now a 1972 VW Transporter Deluxe (under construction)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
sjbartnik
Samba Member


Joined: September 01, 2011
Posts: 5261
Location: Brooklyn
sjbartnik is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Type 4 T-Stat test Reply with quote

busdaddy is right, something is not right with the spring that pulls the flaps open.

When fully open, that tab that sticks up from the flaps rod should be vertical.

The spring does NOT go under the nut/plate on the tab, only the end of the cable does.

Somebody throw up a photo of how it's supposed to be at the flaps rod please.
_________________
1965 Volkswagen 1500 Variant S
2000 Kawasaki W650
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
malcolm2
Samba Member


Joined: September 28, 2011
Posts: 736
Location: Mount Juliet, TN
malcolm2 is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Type 4 T-Stat test Reply with quote

OK here is a thought. I will heat the Stat and attach the cable with the TAB straight up and the Stat fully extended.
_________________
My Toys: '75 Porsche 914, '86 VW MK1 Cabriolet (sold), '92 Ski Nautique and now a 1972 VW Transporter Deluxe (under construction)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
busdaddy
Samba Member


Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 44714
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, Land of the giant flying moose!
busdaddy is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Type 4 T-Stat test Reply with quote

I meant the lower of the 2 parts of the cable on the upper clamp/lever, the one that does the pulling (not the free end) looks limp. Maybe it's just due to a stiff cable?, or clamped on a funny angle?

Bottom line is that lever has to be vertical when hot, try your warm thermostat adjustment theory. Or unbolt the thermostat in it's bracket and pull the cable tight when the lever is vertical and clamp it, then pull the thermostat forward and install the hold down bolt. the flaps may not end up fully shut, but when warm they will be fully open that's what matters.
_________________
Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.

Wanted, OG paint 1971 Niagara blue decklid.

Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
udidwht
Samba Member


Joined: March 06, 2005
Posts: 3628
Location: Seattle, WA./ HB, Ca./ Shizuoka, Japan
udidwht is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Type 4 T-Stat test Reply with quote

If this is an Awesome Powdercoat T stat it will 'begin' to move open at 185F-194F (not full open) So the adjustment side should not be vertical at that specific temp.

At what temperature does the thermostat open?

German stat for type IV carb and FI engines, and 4 cylinder Porsche 912 and 914 engines, starts to open at 85-90C (185-194F)

Do you have the small spring on the adjustment end?
_________________
1972 Westy Hardtop/Type-4 2056cc
96mm Biral AA P/C's~7.8:1CR
Headflow Masters New AMC 42x36mm heads w/Porsche swivel adjusters
71mm Stroke
73 Web Cam w/Web solids
Dual 40mm IDF Webers - LM-2 - 47.5 idles/125 mains/190 air corr./F11 tubes/28mm Vents - Float height 10.45mm/Drop 32mm
Bosch SVDA w/Pertronix module (7.5 initial 28 total @ 3400rpm)
NGK BP6ET plugs
Pertronix Flamethrower 40K coil
S&S 4-1 w/Walker QP 17862
3 rib 002 Trans
185R14 Hankook tires
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Vanapplebomb
Samba Member


Joined: November 03, 2010
Posts: 4270
Location: Holland, MI
Vanapplebomb is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 6:52 am    Post subject: Re: Type 4 T-Stat test Reply with quote

You may also want to check and see if the crossbar is twisted. Remove the front half of the blower housing to confirm the flaps are where they should be hot and cold.

When cold, the 1/2 side flap should be down against a small boss cast in the blower housing which keeps the flap from completely closing. The 3/4 side should be up to the upper cooling tin which the lower edge of the flap nearly touching the blower housing.

When hot, the 1/3 side should be fully open. The 3/4 side should be fully down against the oil cooler tin.

Bend/twist the bar to synchronize this operation if it is out of whack.
_________________
1800 Type 4 Berrien 295

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=487021
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
nogoodwithusernames
Samba Member


Joined: November 10, 2014
Posts: 461
Location: CA, USA
nogoodwithusernames is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:07 am    Post subject: Re: Type 4 T-Stat test Reply with quote

sjbartnik wrote:
busdaddy is right, something is not right with the spring that pulls the flaps open.

When fully open, that tab that sticks up from the flaps rod should be vertical.

The spring does NOT go under the nut/plate on the tab, only the end of the cable does.

Somebody throw up a photo of how it's supposed to be at the flaps rod please.


A photo would be great, I'm second guessing my spring installation now. T-stat works and I *think* it's adjusted properly, and I *think* the spring is installed right. I could only figure out one way for it to go. Now I have to go check it all.
_________________
71 Squareback, T4 conversion
(Conversion thread https://shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=151375&sid=f0542d44a322d290c29d6609fac7f215)
74 914, 2.0L D-Jet

-Derek
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
malcolm2
Samba Member


Joined: September 28, 2011
Posts: 736
Location: Mount Juliet, TN
malcolm2 is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 6:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Type 4 T-Stat test Reply with quote

SUCCESS. I think I HAD the cable wrapped incorrectly. Same goes for the TIV in my 914. There is a curved "ramp" on the flap rod at the pinch point for the cable. If you wrap the cable UNDER the pinch bolt, the cable rides on the ramp.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



You can see the use of the RAMP in this picture. I am calling this correct. Why else would they put the ramp there? I think it keeps from having a sharp bend in the cable and gives it longer life. As if 45 years was not long enough.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.




HERE IS A SHOT OF THE SPRING. Looks right to me. IIRC when installing the spring, there is only one way to go. Either it is too loose, just right, or you can't quite make it go any tighter. Brilliant.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
My Toys: '75 Porsche 914, '86 VW MK1 Cabriolet (sold), '92 Ski Nautique and now a 1972 VW Transporter Deluxe (under construction)


Last edited by malcolm2 on Mon Sep 14, 2020 6:42 pm; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
malcolm2
Samba Member


Joined: September 28, 2011
Posts: 736
Location: Mount Juliet, TN
malcolm2 is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 6:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Type 4 T-Stat test Reply with quote

This is my 914. Started her up to get her warm.... I have the cable wrapped wrong here too. But the tab is pointed straight up when hot.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.





HOT.... Flaps open fully

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
My Toys: '75 Porsche 914, '86 VW MK1 Cabriolet (sold), '92 Ski Nautique and now a 1972 VW Transporter Deluxe (under construction)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
busdaddy
Samba Member


Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 44714
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, Land of the giant flying moose!
busdaddy is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Type 4 T-Stat test Reply with quote

Much better! Smile
_________________
Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.

Wanted, OG paint 1971 Niagara blue decklid.

Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
dawie
Samba Member


Joined: July 27, 2008
Posts: 215
Location: Cape Town, South Africa
dawie is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:43 am    Post subject: Re: Type 4 T-Stat test Reply with quote

With a running engine, air pressure probably helps combined with spring pressure to open flaps when thermostat starts to open.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
raygreenwood
Samba Member


Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 17765
Location: Oklahoma City
raygreenwood is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:45 am    Post subject: Re: Type 4 T-Stat test Reply with quote

Also....a lot of people never notice this....but on the flap rod....about 1 foot to the left of the clamp for the thermostat cable (when you are standing on the fan end of the engine)...there is a "cranked" section of the flap rod right near the distributor...right before it goes int the nylon bearing and teh left hand flap housing.

When you are setting the thermostat cable up....this "cranked" section of flap rod is you "third hand". Simply rotate the flap rod to full closed and insert a simple wooden or plastic wedge into the cranked area between teh rod and and the cooling shroud.

This keeps the flaps tightly closed while you use both hands to install and tighten the T-stat cable.

Ray
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
udidwht
Samba Member


Joined: March 06, 2005
Posts: 3628
Location: Seattle, WA./ HB, Ca./ Shizuoka, Japan
udidwht is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 4:47 am    Post subject: Re: Type 4 T-Stat test Reply with quote

raygreenwood wrote:
Also....a lot of people never notice this....but on the flap rod....about 1 foot to the left of the clamp for the thermostat cable (when you are standing on the fan end of the engine)...there is a "cranked" section of the flap rod right near the distributor...right before it goes int the nylon bearing and teh left hand flap housing.

When you are setting the thermostat cable up....this "cranked" section of flap rod is you "third hand". Simply rotate the flap rod to full closed and insert a simple wooden or plastic wedge into the cranked area between teh rod and and the cooling shroud.

This keeps the flaps tightly closed while you use both hands to install and tighten the T-stat cable.

Ray


Even easier...

Cut a piece of fuel line down it's length ~3in/ Install it over that section of the rod. Then use vice grips on it to hold the flaps closed when installing-tightening the cable nut.
_________________
1972 Westy Hardtop/Type-4 2056cc
96mm Biral AA P/C's~7.8:1CR
Headflow Masters New AMC 42x36mm heads w/Porsche swivel adjusters
71mm Stroke
73 Web Cam w/Web solids
Dual 40mm IDF Webers - LM-2 - 47.5 idles/125 mains/190 air corr./F11 tubes/28mm Vents - Float height 10.45mm/Drop 32mm
Bosch SVDA w/Pertronix module (7.5 initial 28 total @ 3400rpm)
NGK BP6ET plugs
Pertronix Flamethrower 40K coil
S&S 4-1 w/Walker QP 17862
3 rib 002 Trans
185R14 Hankook tires
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
raygreenwood
Samba Member


Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 17765
Location: Oklahoma City
raygreenwood is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:30 am    Post subject: Re: Type 4 T-Stat test Reply with quote

udidwht wrote:
raygreenwood wrote:
Also....a lot of people never notice this....but on the flap rod....about 1 foot to the left of the clamp for the thermostat cable (when you are standing on the fan end of the engine)...there is a "cranked" section of the flap rod right near the distributor...right before it goes int the nylon bearing and teh left hand flap housing.

When you are setting the thermostat cable up....this "cranked" section of flap rod is you "third hand". Simply rotate the flap rod to full closed and insert a simple wooden or plastic wedge into the cranked area between teh rod and and the cooling shroud.

This keeps the flaps tightly closed while you use both hands to install and tighten the T-stat cable.

Ray


Even easier...

Cut a piece of fuel line down it's length ~3in/ Install it over that section of the rod. Then use vice grips on it to hold the flaps closed when installing-tightening the cable nut.


Thats exactly what I do!.... Laughing ....I just did not want to note that I was doing something kind of "crude" that "could" damage the rod if done incorrectly. I just know that someone will skip the fuel line and just vise-grip to the rod.

In the beginning I used a wedge. But if the wedge is not just the right shape....it can pop out while you are working on the other end.

Holding the rod full closed and clamping the vise grips on while resting against the shroud does it quick and easy.

Ray
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Performance/Engines/Transmissions All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2020, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB