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andk5591
Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2005
Posts: 16758
Location: State College, PA
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 Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 11:46 am Post subject: Looking for BEST 914 resources |
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Did a quick scan of the FAQs, but wondering if there is more info. Here's the deal, my shop specializes in mostly air cooled bugs, but I have had several folks asking about doing work on 914s. A couple of the projects are relatively minor (I hope), but met with a potential customer Friday and we are talking about a total resto for later this year.
I don't want to come into something without a good handle on what to expect, so which forum is the best one to use. Any particularly good books (like some of the Wilson VW books).
And when it comes to parts, I have my go to vendors for specific items for the VWs. Assuming its the same as for 914s.
Last thing - if a 914 expert can PM me. Just looking for some general info as far as comparing a 914 to a beetle to give me a general understanding of the cars.
Thanks!
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D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
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Wolfgangdieter
Samba Member
Joined: June 25, 2008
Posts: 1958
Location: FL Panhandle
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| Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 2:11 pm Post subject: Re: Looking for BEST 914 resources |
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The go to place for info and used parts is http://www.914world.com.
New part is near by in Atlanta - http://autoatlanta.com/porsche-parts/914.php
Rust repairs are much harder on a 914 than on a bug and they seem more prone to rust. Near all body parts are reproduced but drilling out the spot welds and rewelding is time comsuming.
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CMC '57 Porsche Speedster Replica and Dolphin boat tailed full pan VW MOD-T Street Buggy |
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Starbucket
Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2007
Posts: 4026
Location: WA
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| Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 2:57 pm Post subject: Re: Looking for BEST 914 resources |
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| 914's have hidden rust, if you see rust you can bet there is a LOT more in the metal behind it and behind it. If you are not a "Metal working man" avoid any rust repair. The VW related parts are mainly Type 4 VW. Great cars but they had NO rust protection. |
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andk5591
Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2005
Posts: 16758
Location: State College, PA
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| Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 5:32 pm Post subject: Re: Looking for BEST 914 resources |
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The owner has it pretty much blown apart and has a donor with most good panels. Car will be media blasted before we even touch it.
Just general info - All of the ones I may work with are cylinder cars. Are these simply a type 4 engine?
_________________
D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them... |
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67rustavenger 
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Joined: February 24, 2015
Posts: 9772
Location: Oregon
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| Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 6:47 am Post subject: Re: Looking for BEST 914 resources |
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My understanding on the development side of things. Is that Porsche wanted the 914 to be a pure car. VW had other ideas and influenced the final product.
Yes some T4 engine parts will fit the 914.
But from my observations. That's about it.
A word of caution on the rust repair. To the best of my search and knowledge.
No one make repop motor mounts. So when dealing with the right side one (cuz that's where the majority of the rust damage is), be very careful. Or you'll find yourself trying to build one from scratch. Hopefully the customer brings a right side motor mount along in the pieces to be grafted.
There are a couple of excellent threads on these repairs @ 914World.com. You have to search a bit. But I did find a couple of well documented restoration threads.
Pelican Parts has good information as well.
There really are no good books like a "Wilson" book. I had to settle on a "Haynes" manual just to get a rudimentary idea of what I'm looking at.
Good Luck.
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I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!
There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo!
Last edited by 67rustavenger on Sun Mar 24, 2019 6:52 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Wolfgangdieter
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Joined: June 25, 2008
Posts: 1958
Location: FL Panhandle
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| Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 6:49 am Post subject: Re: Looking for BEST 914 resources |
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Yes, all are Type 4 engines but remember they were used in light 914's and the heavy box-like bus - so compression ratios (pistons/heads/cranks differ) and hp output are different. Engine sealing tins are also different. FI parts are becoming difficult to find - hence many convert to carbs especially when increasing the engine displacement.
Good write-up on differences-
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/lofiversion/index.php?t49086.html
There are several places for hop-up engine kits - not nearly as cheap as for the T1 though.
https://type4store.com/engine-kits.html
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CMC '57 Porsche Speedster Replica and Dolphin boat tailed full pan VW MOD-T Street Buggy |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21520
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 1:52 pm Post subject: Re: Looking for BEST 914 resources |
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| Wolfgangdieter wrote: |
Yes, all are Type 4 engines but remember they were used in light 914's and the heavy box-like bus - so compression ratios (pistons/heads/cranks differ) and hp output are different. Engine sealing tins are also different. FI parts are becoming difficult to find - hence many convert to carbs especially when increasing the engine displacement.
Good write-up on differences-
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/lofiversion/index.php?t49086.html
There are several places for hop-up engine kits - not nearly as cheap as for the T1 though.
https://type4store.com/engine-kits.html |
That is a great write up in 914 world....really only for modified non stock engines.....not for what are the differnces in VW an Porsche type 4 engines. Also quite a bit of that thread is far out of date.
I do not know how many times I have to post this....but will continue 
The type 4 engine was not,a Porsche product....and not initially designed with the 91r in mind at all. As correctly noted in this thread Porsche was prpretty much co-opted by VW into using VW tech in their product.
The type 4 engine was designed somehwere between 1966 and 1967 for use in the 1968 411 vehicle. It pre-dated the 914.
The 1.7l engine....in the 411/412.....is 100%....100%...down to the last part number in engine part, ignition, fuel injection, valves pistons.....hp and torque output...everything (except for a few sheet metal parts and the exhaust heat exchangers)......the same as the 914 1.7L. It in gact a VW product.
The 1.8L......used in the 1974 VW 412 and the 914.....were 100% identical in every way and part number....just like the 1.7L
The 411 and 412...ALL had ledges for windage tray and came with one from factory. All 411 and 412 sedans came with the exact same top mounted dipstick just like 914....except the wagon versions....that had a dipstick system largely the same as the bus.
The 2.0 914 engine was unique to Porache....ONLY .....in heads, pistons, ignition and intake system....and of course requisite sheet metal changes needed to run mid engine just like the 1.7 and 1.8 engines. Otherwise...the 2.0 case, rods, crank, bearings....are same as vw bus.
The buses usexld detuned (actually specially tuned) versions of the type 4 engines. The 1.7, 1.8 and 2.0L bus versions are all very different in detail from 411, 412 and 914.
Ray |
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andk5591
Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2005
Posts: 16758
Location: State College, PA
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| Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 9:17 am Post subject: Re: Looking for BEST 914 resources |
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Thanks Ray - sent you a PM
_________________
D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them... |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21520
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:28 pm Post subject: Re: Looking for BEST 914 resources |
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| andk5591 wrote: |
| Thanks Ray - sent you a PM |
No problem!
My only reason for pointing out that the VW type 4 engine and 914 type 4 engine except for the 2.0L....are in fact the same exact engines and fuel injection systems....is to try to help the 914 guys out a little when searching for parts.
Too many times I see 914 guys who are new to 914s...trying have an engine built...and looking only at "Porsche" parts and sources. This jacks the price way up...and makes the availability seem scarce.
If you are doing a high level restoration of a 914 and MUST have correct case numbers for say...a 2.0L....then sure....look for a 2.0L case code from a 914.
However....whether you are building a bone stock or upgraded engine....and you do not exactly care about the case number being exact.....you can look for 1.7L and 1,8L core engines from VW 411 and 412...and also look for cases from buses.
Except for a few small details that came in the oil system of the very last 2.0' on the buses for use with hydraulic lifters...all of the type 4 cases are pretty equal.
One of the reasons why Jake Raby likes using the 1.7L cases from 411, 412 and 914....is that they are usually less beat up and have less damage to the main saddles than 2.0 cases from 914's...and less damaged than any case that has run north of 100k miles in a bus...and does not have the oil system oddity of the bus 2.0L case.
One correction....from tha 914 world thread...yes...the very earliest cases....really the 1968 VW 411 1.7L cases that were Europe only and maybe a very few of the first 914 1.7L cases...did not have teh cast in grooves for the windage tray. There were not very many of those on this continent. Those would be maybe 1968-69 cases. Everything I have seen that came here had teh windage tray grooves.
As far as I know...all 1.7L and 1.8L in 411, 412 and 914 had the windage tray. Very few buses had the tray.
Ray |
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[email protected]
Samba Member
Joined: December 28, 2016
Posts: 280
Location: atlanta ga
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| Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 8:43 am Post subject: Re: Looking for BEST 914 resources |
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| I pride myself in writing the 914 book "tech tips 700" which road and track in their review of the 160 page illustrated book said: No 914 owner should be without. I have also written "how to buy a 914" and am always a phone call away for 914 advice. Having been in the 914 business for 41 years this year, selling parts restoring and servicing the cars, as well as selling and guiding prospective owners, I have accumulated the world's best 914 collection, so have those cars some very original, to compare to always get it right when giving detailed advice to customers. I love the 914 until the day I die, and want everyone out there to love it as I do. George Hussey |
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andk5591
Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2005
Posts: 16758
Location: State College, PA
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| Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:34 pm Post subject: Re: Looking for BEST 914 resources |
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Thanks George, was planning to reach out to you at some point.
_________________
D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them... |
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Mikedrevguy
Samba Member
Joined: October 15, 2008
Posts: 2240
Location: Medford, OR
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| Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 7:31 pm Post subject: Re: Looking for BEST 914 resources |
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Where did we end up with this?
Did we procure the 914?
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74 1303 (RevBug): plan for German Look
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"The wise speak because they have something to say; while the foolish speak because they have to say something." Plato
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andk5591
Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2005
Posts: 16758
Location: State College, PA
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| Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2019 6:44 am Post subject: Re: Looking for BEST 914 resources |
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No 914...this would be for a customer car and with my current backlog, not sure when/if the car will even get in here.
_________________
D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them... |
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ppm2u
Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2019
Posts: 1
Location: Cincinnati
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| Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 8:17 am Post subject: Re: Looking for BEST 914 resources |
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It's my understanding Porsche is no longer issuing COA's.
Is there a resource to contact to tell if a 914 is truly numbers matching? How can I tell? |
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[email protected]
Samba Member
Joined: December 28, 2016
Posts: 280
Location: atlanta ga
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| Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 7:20 am Post subject: Re: Looking for BEST 914 resources |
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| ppm2u wrote: |
It's my understanding Porsche is no longer issuing COA's.
Is there a resource to contact to tell if a 914 is truly numbers matching? How can I tell? |
there was never really a source for revealing matching four cylinder numbers. All you can do is look at the tag above the relay board to see which size engine was originally installed and then look at the engine number to see if it was in the right series. You are on the money when you said that the COAs are now worthless, they give very little information and when you tell them the engine number in your car, they put THAT engine number on your certificate, skewing the car's history |
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udidwht
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Joined: March 06, 2005
Posts: 3779
Location: Seattle, WA./ HB, Ca./ Shizuoka, Japan
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| Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 4:48 am Post subject: Re: Looking for BEST 914 resources |
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https://914rubber.com/
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