Author |
Message |
old DKP driver Samba Member
Joined: March 30, 2005 Posts: 4145 Location: Los Gatos,Ca.
|
Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2020 4:47 pm Post subject: Re: Process of rebuild, replacing heads, new exhaust & misc 1977 FI |
|
|
Old used 10mm Valve adjusting screws will work Too !
With sealant. _________________ V.W.owner since 1967 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Hoody Samba Member
Joined: November 28, 2007 Posts: 1948
|
Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2020 5:54 pm Post subject: Re: Process of rebuild, replacing heads, new exhaust & misc 1977 FI |
|
|
Bel-metric has them. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
|
Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2020 9:44 pm Post subject: Re: Process of rebuild, replacing heads, new exhaust & misc 1977 FI |
|
|
Thanks Chris - that is the route taken. Cut one off, rounded the threads and used that with an old nut.
Bob - Thank, I'll take a look and get one ordered.
Tuesday September 22 eve
Added fuel line and FPR. Need to order firewall backplane grommets.
_________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
|
Back to top |
|
|
SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
|
Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2020 9:31 am Post subject: Re: Process of rebuild, replacing heads, new exhaust & misc 1977 FI |
|
|
Sunday September 27.
Will be finishing the hoses today other than new grommets will be in tomorrow. Had to get one from Auto Atlanta and one from Airhead. No two places had both the grommets for the fuel and wiring, in a reasonably easy process to order them. A couple International places had both but the shipping takes too long these days. One vendor we all use listed both as "ships is 1-3 days" but when I called to verify the actual inventory, they had to get one of the grommets from Germany which would be a month. No thanks. I wish all the grommets that are on a FI bus engine are available but they are not. The throttle grommet is not for example, don't even know the part number.
I bought some new Gates Barricade to replace what I have - it isn't that old but the line has been pinched under the bus for months now and it probably will have a permanent deformation. Got the hose at NAPA. O'reillys was closer and they listed it as in stock but the employee couldn't find it, and had an attitude checking to see if the other O'Reilly's nearby had some. Apparently their inventory system is junk. Anyway $90 poorer I have new hose. On a 1977, 12' is needed, I bought 15'. $5.69 a foot.
Here is what I came up with on hose clamps. The injector clamps have screws and I will replace those with some Oetiker clamps I have because the screws are too close to the alternator wires. Don't want one rubbing thru. Also will probably install a new CSV. This one isn't all that old but it wiggles a little. Will compare it to a new one I have in stock. With a 45 year old car one has to think ahead.
SGKent wrote: |
I originally posted the quoted area today in type 3 thread on Oetiker clamps. Needs to be here too for FI buses.
SGKent wrote: |
There are several threads here on the Oetiker clamps. I wanted to order some more this morning but my brain was farting understanding them. I answered my own questions before finishing this post, and thought I would share the conclusions in case someone else has the same brain fart.
A 5/16 ID Gates Barricade hose is 9/16 OD. That is an ID of 8mm+/- and an OD of 14.287 MM. The Oetiker clamps I have read 15.5 on them so I am guessing those are 15.5 mm. There is also a 14.5 listed. These are the stainless high pressure clamps that don't come apart. I was wondering why 15.5 is the better size than 14.5 then I realized the hose is larger by a small amount when it slides over the barb it is being fitted to. Also the 15.5 lists that it is for an uncrimped inner diameter of 14.4 mm, and that it crimps down to 12 mm. OETIKER # 15400036 Manufacturer's Published Crimping Range: 12.8mm to 14.8mm
https://www.belmetric.com/stainless-clamps-c-15_142_1238/chp155-high-pressure-p-972.html |
ABA 13 and Oetiker 15.5. Both have rolled edges. If there are wires under the clamp that the screw might interfere with, like the 1-2 fuel injectors, use the Oetiker clamp to minimize the risk of a short.
|
_________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
|
Back to top |
|
|
SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
|
Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 12:43 pm Post subject: Re: Process of rebuild, replacing heads, new exhaust & misc 1977 FI |
|
|
Monday September 28.
Working on listing grommets etc for this engine. I have most but there are a couple that could use replacing. I put a * by these if you know where to get them or a part number.
Firewall tin and other rubber on 1977 FI bus:
Alternator pass thru to starter 111-971-901 A . Airhead has as 113-971-901 A
*Fuel line pass thru is not 021-119-569A on a FI bus. Don't have the part # yet
*Accelerator cable pass thru is 021-119-562 B . Appears NLA. 1976 on
Oval seal 021-119-337
Round seal 021-119-627 B
Dipstick Tube Boot 021-119-245 - suggest use a Viton one.
Oil filler grommet 021-119-953
Some Bays with an oval hole around the dipstick use this grommet. Others use RTV. 022-119-951
Oil Cooler rubber boot seal 021-119-329
Oil pressure switch boot 021-119-957
Small rubber seal for thermostat cable. 021-119-955
55 amp boot - varies with alternator https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=638029&start=80
paper gasket for alternator - usually NLA but some are around. They fit my alternator perfectly but some people say they have trouble. They only clock one way. 021-903-637
Alternator wire boot (2 required) 021 971 907A
Alternator cover tin plastic seal - varies with alternator. most common 55 Amp late 022-903-203
Gaskets to seal heat exchangers. Best solution I found is silicone ones from 914 Rubber. 021-256-326A and 021-256-325A _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
|
Back to top |
|
|
ivwshane Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011 Posts: 1920 Location: Sacramento ca
|
Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 4:33 pm Post subject: Re: Process of rebuild, replacing heads, new exhaust & misc 1977 FI |
|
|
Thanks for that list!! I could of used that when I replaced all my rubber, oh the hours I would have saved!
Since I switched my fuel lines to match the 78+ lines I was able to I use the fuel pass through grommet you listed. The middle is very thin so I don’t know why you couldn’t expand the whole to fit a rubber fuel hose.
I got everything on your list except one piece which I didn’t know about: 022-903-203, the thermostat grommet. I assume that goes on the 1-2 upper cylinder tin?
I would really love to get the accelerator/firewall grommet. I found a semi suitable grommet blank and RTV’d the back of it because it was so thin and then cut access lines in it.
I got the heat exchanger seals from 914rubber but I swapped out the Allen head bolts they included to the same ones I used on my engine tin. _________________ 77 westy 2.0 FI
69 ghia coup 1600dp
70 single cab |
|
Back to top |
|
|
ivwshane Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011 Posts: 1920 Location: Sacramento ca
|
Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 4:33 pm Post subject: Re: Process of rebuild, replacing heads, new exhaust & misc 1977 FI |
|
|
Thanks for that list!! I could of used that when I replaced all my rubber, oh the hours I would have saved!
Since I switched my fuel lines to match the 78+ lines I was able to I use the fuel pass through grommet you listed. The middle is very thin so I don’t know why you couldn’t expand the whole to fit a rubber fuel hose.
I got everything on your list except one piece which I didn’t know about: 022-903-203, the thermostat grommet. I assume that goes on the 1-2 upper cylinder tin?
I would really love to get the accelerator/firewall grommet. I found a semi suitable grommet blank and RTV’d the back of it because it was so thin and then cut access lines in it.
I got the heat exchanger seals from 914rubber but I swapped out the Allen head bolts they included to the same ones I used on my engine tin. _________________ 77 westy 2.0 FI
69 ghia coup 1600dp
70 single cab |
|
Back to top |
|
|
SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
|
Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 4:38 pm Post subject: Re: Process of rebuild, replacing heads, new exhaust & misc 1977 FI |
|
|
it sandwiches between the tin like the image below. You slide it in thru that slot kind of.
Your cable seems to be at a funny angle. It should not rub on the tin. Also in the photo you are missing the screw and hold down piece of spring steel that holds the flap shaft down. Did you add those later?
_________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
|
Back to top |
|
|
ivwshane Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011 Posts: 1920 Location: Sacramento ca
|
Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 5:03 pm Post subject: Re: Process of rebuild, replacing heads, new exhaust & misc 1977 FI |
|
|
That’s an old photo, it was taken when I had missing tin. I’ve also since changed out the tin screws for stainless Allen head with a captive washer.
I did not add the hold down clips but I did make some and my single cab has them so can take them from there.
It’s hard to tell from the photo what’s going on though. I’ll order the part and hopefully it’s pretty easy to figure out. I’m assuming I’ll need to unclamp the cable to put in the grommet. _________________ 77 westy 2.0 FI
69 ghia coup 1600dp
70 single cab |
|
Back to top |
|
|
orwell84 Samba Member
Joined: May 14, 2007 Posts: 2528 Location: Plattsburgh, New York
|
Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 5:28 pm Post subject: Re: Process of rebuild, replacing heads, new exhaust & misc 1977 FI |
|
|
Wow. I don’t have a lot of these and didn’t know I was missing them. Thank you. Now I know. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
|
Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 5:39 pm Post subject: Re: Process of rebuild, replacing heads, new exhaust & misc 1977 FI |
|
|
ivwshane wrote: |
That’s an old photo, it was taken when I had missing tin. I’ve also since changed out the tin screws for stainless Allen head with a captive washer.
I did not add the hold down clips but I did make some and my single cab has them so can take them from there.
It’s hard to tell from the photo what’s going on though. I’ll order the part and hopefully it’s pretty easy to figure out. I’m assuming I’ll need to unclamp the cable to put in the grommet. |
yes. You have to loosen the screw near there that holds the bottom tin in, slide a screwdriver or something to put a little gap between the two tins, slide it down the cable which is pulled thru the slot, then slide it between the two tins. Once between them tighten the screws back and attach the cable. Use a bicycle cable end or solder to dress the cable end to keep it from unraveling over time. _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Hoody Samba Member
Joined: November 28, 2007 Posts: 1948
|
Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 5:42 pm Post subject: Re: Process of rebuild, replacing heads, new exhaust & misc 1977 FI |
|
|
For the thermostat cable grommet there are 2 different sizes of rubber plugs used on drain holes. The larger of the 2 plugs is a perfect fit but needs to have a hole drilled through the center of it. If I am not mistaken VW just used a round piece of rubber that was glued to the tin. The body plug mod is a better solution in my opinion because it will not come off. I will try to find the part number for it if someone needs it. Hope this helps. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
ivwshane Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011 Posts: 1920 Location: Sacramento ca
|
Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 6:33 pm Post subject: Re: Process of rebuild, replacing heads, new exhaust & misc 1977 FI |
|
|
SGKent wrote: |
ivwshane wrote: |
That’s an old photo, it was taken when I had missing tin. I’ve also since changed out the tin screws for stainless Allen head with a captive washer.
I did not add the hold down clips but I did make some and my single cab has them so can take them from there.
It’s hard to tell from the photo what’s going on though. I’ll order the part and hopefully it’s pretty easy to figure out. I’m assuming I’ll need to unclamp the cable to put in the grommet. |
yes. You have to loosen the screw near there that holds the bottom tin in, slide a screwdriver or something to put a little gap between the two tins, slide it down the cable which is pulled thru the slot, then slide it between the two tins. Once between them tighten the screws back and attach the cable. Use a bicycle cable end or solder to dress the cable end to keep it from unraveling over time. |
Thanks. I've got the part ordered and your directions will help. As far as the cable end is concerned, used heat shrink. I original tried solder but I didn't have any luck (I'm pretty sure it was bad technique though). _________________ 77 westy 2.0 FI
69 ghia coup 1600dp
70 single cab |
|
Back to top |
|
|
SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
|
Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 4:13 pm Post subject: Re: Process of rebuild, replacing heads, new exhaust & misc 1977 FI |
|
|
Wednesday September 30.
Worked on fuel hose. I used Gates Barricade 225 PSI 5/16. The factory length for the injectors is 50 mm. German Supply suggests 35 mm. 35 mm works super. Scott makes some great hose kits for folks looking for an all in one experience. California is a smog state and the Gates hose is approved here.
1-2 hoses
CSV hoses
3-4 hoses
1-2 FI harness, new Kyle Vanagon style
CSV, AUX, and Thermo-Time FI harness
3-4 FI harness
Ground connectors. Cleaned during engine build. Brown wire is ground for oil sender
Vacuum hoses. Need to remind myself to buy some red and some black hose.
Hooked FI signal wire to #1
Tomorrow, Lord willing, the exhaust goes on. Then oil and filter go in/on and set on engine jack using cherry picker. Almost done with the engine part of this build. As I have assembled this engine I am forever reminded how much more complex these FI engines are than my 1971 was. Other than the less power and low back seats, I had no complaints with the 1971. Finding a low mile one is near impossible. Mine had close to 500,000 miles on it when I sold it. The buyer used it a lot so I would guess it came close to 1,000,000 miles in its life - it may even still be out there. _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
|
Back to top |
|
|
SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
|
Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 4:51 pm Post subject: Re: Process of rebuild, replacing heads, new exhaust & misc 1977 FI |
|
|
Thursday Oct 1
Arrrg. That is all I can say. The rubber cone grommet that I hoped would work for the fuel line is too small so I will continue to use the old one. Apparently the 569A part if for the fuel rails with a hook in them where the metal passes thru. The cone shaped is for the shorter rails like I have.
Then I readjusted the valves. A couple had changed so it Colin is right. These AMC heads settle for a while.
Then I started to put the exhaust on. Most parts are new. It is a real fight to line things up. Whack it here, what it there. My vision of new factory parts fitting better is wrong. In frustration I will finish it another day. _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
|
Back to top |
|
|
airschooled Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012 Posts: 12688 Location: on a bike ride somewhere
|
Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 5:41 pm Post subject: Re: Process of rebuild, replacing heads, new exhaust & misc 1977 FI |
|
|
I can mail you the curved fuel rail if you’d like; better in the post than cluttering up my backseat... This steering box went in and out four times today... I feel your pain...
Robbie _________________ Learn how your vintage VW works. And why it doesn't!
One-on-one tech help for your Volkswagen:
www.airschooled.com |
|
Back to top |
|
|
SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
|
Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 7:24 pm Post subject: Re: Process of rebuild, replacing heads, new exhaust & misc 1977 FI |
|
|
airschooled wrote: |
I can mail you the curved fuel rail if you’d like; better in the post than cluttering up my backseat... This steering box went in and out four times today... I feel your pain...
Robbie |
Thanks Robbie but I am Ok with the way it is. The curved rail would be one more thing to redo. I appreciate your offer. _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
|
Back to top |
|
|
SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
|
Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 4:23 pm Post subject: Re: Process of rebuild, replacing heads, new exhaust & misc 1977 FI |
|
|
Wednesday October 7.
Finished fitting the main exhaust components. Had trouble with the plates that go on top of the heat exchangers at the shroud. The red silicone gaskets for there suck. They are hard to form fit, and the allen bolts included in the kit are too short. I ended up using longer bolts to pull them in, then clamped each side one at a time and put the allen bolts in. I suggest making your own gaskets or getting the original style that can be shaped and glued with 3M spray glue before putting them on. One afterburner is not permanently bolted yet so I could remove it and rotate the engine on the stand. Will get that and the rest of the exhaust and EGR tomorrow. Once that is done the heater valves go on, and engine needs oil. Oil filter isn't tightened yet so I can fill it. Getting a lot harder to do these things with age. There is this nagging always that some small detail has been overlooked. 45 year old parts. You know the feeling.
Exhaust photo 1
Exhaust photo 2
Topside of engine
_________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
|
Back to top |
|
|
ivwshane Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011 Posts: 1920 Location: Sacramento ca
|
Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 7:04 pm Post subject: Re: Process of rebuild, replacing heads, new exhaust & misc 1977 FI |
|
|
I noticed you put a ground strap on the case by the tranny, why? I ask because I know you usually put one on the fan housing as well. _________________ 77 westy 2.0 FI
69 ghia coup 1600dp
70 single cab |
|
Back to top |
|
|
SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
|
Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 7:28 pm Post subject: Re: Process of rebuild, replacing heads, new exhaust & misc 1977 FI |
|
|
ivwshane wrote: |
I noticed you put a ground strap on the case by the tranny, why? I ask because I know you usually put one on the fan housing as well. |
I like solid connections with minimal resistance. Just my style. _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|