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Deanaha
Samba Member
Joined: October 01, 2018
Posts: 25
Location: TX
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 Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 5:28 am Post subject: Stickers |
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Wher can find new stickers for my 411? A few are getting torn up, such as the one at the engine opening lip, and 2 smaller ones in the engine.
Thanks |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21520
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:11 am Post subject: Re: stickers |
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| Deanaha wrote: |
Wher can find new stickers for my 411? A few are getting torn up, such as the one at the engine opening lip, and 2 smaller ones in the engine.
Thanks |
Please post pictures. Not all of the information decals were the same from place to place and year to year.
There are some places that sell decals. Some are excellent reproductions, most of which are good enough......but in my "professional opinion".....virtually none of the stickers I have seen available at various VW parts vendors over the last 25 years.....are exact.....or serious restoration quality.
That being said.....most are good enough to use.
As long as its a decal that either type 1, 2 or 3 also used....there are generally places that it can be sourced from. But....type 4 specific decals like the enissions control labels inside the engine compartment.....to my knowledge no one has reproduced them.
Yes....there are some people here and there in the forums with digital inkjets that have either primary or side businesses of printing repro stickers....and some of them are pretty damn good. Not insulting them at all....but they are not 100% original.
Its not really their fault. Its not a design, font or color issue really. The biggest part of the problem is that ALL of the original decals were screen printed on specific materials with inks that match those materials for adhesion. Some of the decals were then clear coated andsome were clear laminated.
Getting matching materials and creating matching edge definition with digital compared to screenprint.....is the hard part.
I realize this commentary is not actually providing a solution for you. I am going over this stuff now.....because since you brought it up.....the decals are something I have been on the verge of pulling a trigger for ....for a long time. I just have not yet...because I do not need them....yet.
Back about 18 years ago I put a few feelers out on the Shoptalk Forums.....about printing type 4 specific decals.
Specifically....the little silver and red decals that either go inside the drivers door or next to the diagnostic socket.....the ones with the lightning bolt symbol for which version of dealer diagnostic machine punch cards your car needs......and.....the little gas flap decals for octane.......and the clear coated yellow or white paper label for timing and emissions equipment inside the engine compartment.......and the square or rectangular silver and black or silver and red color code decals inside of the trunk.....and the silver and red or silver and black decals on the washer bottle for the air pressure in the trunk.
But at that time there was not enough interest. At that point in time I was still actively doing SOME design work and was up enough in Adobe Illustrator to properly analyze and layout these decals.
I was also actively searching for the decal substrates....and had found some that were about 90% close for the silver and red/black decals. Its a difficult substrate because finding the right thickness, adhesive and brushed effect.....all in one substrate.....and getting it in small batches..... is very difficult. Material availability offerings in these industries change all the time. Its a little better now especially with all of the small appliance and custom automotive label printing that is being donem
The rest is easy for me.....having proper high resolution films made, making proper screens, sourcing and mixing proper solvent based heat set enamels....and printing them. All of that is easy to me.
However....I am no longer up to date in the newer versions of AI. Thats not a big problem.......nowdays.....I know hundreds of people who can typeset in AI for film work for me for a minor charge.....and I have good connections for high res film work.
Back 15+ years ago.....getting the decals cut.....would have been an expensive chore. It would have taken a die cut.....because there were not many small shops around with accurate plotters with "kiss-cut" ability. Now.....I can find thousands of small shops that have small flatbed or even high end friction roller driven plotters....that can cut decals for me inexpensively as long as a die-line program is provided during layout.
In those days....there were plenty of big shops were around that I knew of....with Zund or Konigsberg plotter units......but they were big and busy. Getting a small batch of something done would have had a large upfront cost.....primarily also because the big, accurate industrial plotters ran on CAD/Gerber. Unless you are up on that or know someone.....more up front cost.
My business IS the graphic and industrial screen printing industry. I have printed MILLIONS of stickers and decals over the decades.....everything from automotive to industrial piping, control panel, safety and flat out advertising and packaging.....and thats just in the adheaive decal and striping range.
At some point.....I can print these just like factory as long as the materials I find are close enough.
Cost wise....just to get set up to do the screen print.....the screens and mesh.....not really any charge. I do lots of high res R&D screens and prints for clients all the time. But ink.....probably about four inks needed to get all of the colors and clear coat and be able to mix the colors properly. Thats about $300.....only comes in quarts and about $65 a quart.....but that would print thousands of decals. Some specific inks I may be able to borrow small amounts from certain clients.
Design/layout work....to be fair to those I would contract...probably $200-ish. Films....about $150....but they would last about a decade before degrading. Plotter cutting....maybe $50 max. The correct decal material.....probably $10 a sheet for 30" x 40" size.
I could print.....sheets of anywhere from 40-50 decals at a time of all of the same decal.....but it would be cheaper to make one single film positive with say....one row each of each decal....so each pront sheet might make 10 each of each decal.
This is why digital inkjet....cost wise.....is so attractive. Its cheap. You can do one offs if you want .....but the problem is that most of these decals are polyester based. The digital inkjet inks out there have problems with adhesion and lifespan with that type of material. These are not cheap vinyl decals.
Also while inkjet reaolution for decals that are just type/copy....is fine......its very hard hitting exact colors in inkjet...because inkjets use 4-8 colors to make each color. Black is no problem.
Just musing over what could be done if you cannot find what you need.
One of my best industrial print clients up near Toronto......I could ask them to layout and print for me....screenprint or digital....with cutting.....virtually anything. They are excellent. They already do major automotive print work. They owe me favors....  .....and I could trade some work for product.
And.....the owner had many cars.....and is a world class restoration guy. Like pebble beach concors level.
Lets keep this thread going and decide what all type 4 people might need for decals. While yes....I can,source whats necessary and print whats needed......I have enough projects.
Lets get an idea of the size and range of the decal NEEDS....which means posting some detailed pictures....with a small machine ruler in the pictures......and at,some point.....I will make a collection of the photos....and take them to my client for an estimate.
Ray |
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Deanaha
Samba Member
Joined: October 01, 2018
Posts: 25
Location: TX
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| Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 5:39 pm Post subject: Re: stickers |
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Ray, thanks for the information- it seems like a lot of work to find these. I am uploading the pics I have
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Hawker
Samba Member
Joined: October 03, 2012
Posts: 124
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| Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:25 am Post subject: Re: stickers |
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Ray,
Next time I am near my car I will photograph and send you the different stickers with a measuring ruler in shot to give you the dimensions.
BR,
Rob
P.S. How is the revised front suspension book coming along? |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21520
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2020 1:26 pm Post subject: Re: stickers |
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| Hawker wrote: |
Ray,
Next time I am near my car I will photograph and send you the different stickers with a measuring ruler in shot to give you the dimensions.
BR,
Rob
P.S. How is the revised front suspension book coming along? |
Back burner for the moment but its on the list on my desktop. Ray |
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Hawker
Samba Member
Joined: October 03, 2012
Posts: 124
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| Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2020 7:24 am Post subject: Re: Stickers |
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Thank you Ray!
Rob |
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waxhead
Samba Member
Joined: January 19, 2004
Posts: 946
Location: Philly 'burbs
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| Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2020 5:29 pm Post subject: Re: Stickers |
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I've been reproducing these emissions stickers for other models. I can make one if you guys need it. The only thing I can't make out on the original is the system code (engine code).
I print these on silver film, then laminate them.
_________________
Mike B. |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21520
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2020 6:32 pm Post subject: Re: Stickers |
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| waxhead wrote: |
I've been reproducing these emissions stickers for other models. I can make one if you guys need it. The only thing I can't make out on the original is the system code (engine code).
I print these on silver film, then laminate them. |
They look nice!
Digital or screen print?
High temp adhesive?
Ray |
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waxhead
Samba Member
Joined: January 19, 2004
Posts: 946
Location: Philly 'burbs
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| Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2020 4:35 pm Post subject: Re: Stickers |
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Thanks Ray. They are digital prints. I've had one on the fan shroud of my '74 Thing for about 4 years now and there's been no problems (shrinkage, etc).
Also, for the sticker above, I did manage to find the 'system code' - it is W-ED
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Mike B. |
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