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Building a Stock ish Type 1 engine for the 1971 VW Bus?
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airschooled Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 2:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Building a Stock ish Type 1 engine for the 1971 VW Bus? Reply with quote

Once about every 40-50 starts, I will get a puff of smoke and then it will be good for a few more weeks. The working theory right now, is that sometimes the rings line up just right to allow a little oil through the chamber. And most of the times the ring gaps are random enough to offset the oil seepage after shutdown.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 2:51 pm    Post subject: Smokes Sometimes on Start Reply with quote

For sure Robbie, That sounds like my past experience, however this engine seems to do it over half the time on start-up.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 6:29 pm    Post subject: Smokes Sometimes on Start Reply with quote

Well, this theory I came up with does not prove out. I thought If I tested start up starting from different positions that I could find which cylinder is causing the smoke. It smoked the first two times I tested it both test set 90' btdc #3 but that was it, I could not reproduce any smoke testing all of the cylinders in the same manner. Here is a Video: Smoke Test I think what I will try is, see what position the engine just happens to be in before starting and see if that effects when it smokes that way I can give it overnight between test.
The other day this thing was smoking a bunch of oil smoke almost every start.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Building a Stock ish Type 1 engine for the 1971 VW Bus? Reply with quote

Tried all the combinations and this motor refuses to smoke on start-up now! Go figure!
Next Thing:
Just installed 210 Air Correction jets and that seems to have cleared up some cracking at 3700 RPM. AirCorrection210 Video.

Soon I will try 1.15 main jets and then go from 24mm venturi's to 25mm venturi's Probably go back to 1.20 mains with the 25mm perhaps more anyone know?
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 5:08 pm    Post subject: Dual Zenith NDIX 32 Carburetors Current Configuration Reply with quote

Dual Zenith NDIX 32 Carburetors Current Configuration:
1679cc Type 1 Dual Port Engine Stock Exhaust etc...
35.5mm X 32mm Valves L3 heads,
W-100 cam,
Ventage Scat Steel Dual Port Manifolds,
Dual Zenith NDIX 32 P010 carbs configured Porsche: L, R, No Crossover, No Chokes,
24mm, 25mm venturi's,
Jets:
180, 210 Air correction,
120, 115 main,
60, 50 idle jets,
55, 40 Accel Pump Jets, #2 Nozzles,
Long fuel pump plungers, (Linkage leverage set long for least pumping).


Stock ish 1679cc Dual Port Type 1 VW Engine Intended for a Bus: Video
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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Last edited by Danwvw on Fri Feb 23, 2018 2:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:20 pm    Post subject: Alstrup's Reply Reply with quote

Alstrup wrote:
Also, wrt the issue with slight stumble with 36 Dells. The first thing to be aware of is the acc pump jets. 36és need relatively large acc pump jets. from factory they are 0,50. Most engines can live with sizes down to about 0,40. 0,45 seems to be the normal minimum.
Next, the lower the dynamic compression the relatively more fuel the engine needs on accelleration. So at 8-1 and maybe a little large deck height along with a low initial ignition timing it makes total sense.

When you say that you get a better thottle response with the NDIX carbs it is also explainable. - The NDIX manifolds are much shorter and have less diameter meaning much less port volume. This means that the engine can create a higher intake port velocity which in the end means a little better fuel mix coming in the cylinder which again means that the tumble can improve the mix just a tad more so the ignition has a better chance of making the combustion happen at a fair rate.

If you wanna play then humor me for a second:
Next time you get a chance, take the heads off of that engine. Correct the deck height to be between 0,040 & 0,047 at the most. You can leave the CR at what it will be (around 8,1 maybe 8,2) if you want. Personally I would taki
a chip to get 8,5 - 8,6.
Reinstall the 36 Dells with the venturi size you like. It will work with both 28 and 30 mm The question is mainly where it will begin to zip from the main circuit. 4-5 mm float height, 55-58 idle, 180 main, #2 E tube, 0,50 acc pump jet and the main that is needed for the venturi size.
you run a 009, OK. first, check that the pinion drive lash is between 0,4 & 0,8mm at the very most. I like to be at 0,5 - 0,6 mm.
Set the idle timing to 10-11 BTDC and reduce max advance to 30 BTDC.
you are using an electronic points replacement right. Now set the plug gap to 0,85 - 0,9 mm. - Yes I mean it.

Now start the engine and dial in your final acc pump setting and main jetting. I´m gonna bet my lunch that it stops bogging now, and will pull the same lower rpm power as with the NDIXés and then some in the mid upper rpm band.

Have fun.
T


"PaytonD21's Thread: What cam for a mild 1776
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 5:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Alstrup's Reply Reply with quote

Danwvw wrote:
Alstrup wrote:
Also, wrt the issue with slight stumble with 36 Dells. The first thing to be aware of is the acc pump jets. 36és need relatively large acc pump jets. from factory they are 0,50. Most engines can live with sizes down to about 0,40. 0,45 seems to be the normal minimum.
Next, the lower the dynamic compression the relatively more fuel the engine needs on accelleration. So at 8-1 and maybe a little large deck height along with a low initial ignition timing it makes total sense.

When you say that you get a better thottle response with the NDIX carbs it is also explainable. - The NDIX manifolds are much shorter and have less diameter meaning much less port volume. This means that the engine can create a higher intake port velocity which in the end means a little better fuel mix coming in the cylinder which again means that the tumble can improve the mix just a tad more so the ignition has a better chance of making the combustion happen at a fair rate.

If you wanna play then humor me for a second:
Next time you get a chance, take the heads off of that engine. Correct the deck height to be between 0,040 & 0,047 at the most. You can leave the CR at what it will be (around 8,1 maybe 8,2) if you want. Personally I would taki
a chip to get 8,5 - 8,6.
Reinstall the 36 Dells with the venturi size you like. It will work with both 28 and 30 mm The question is mainly where it will begin to zip from the main circuit. 4-5 mm float height, 55-58 idle, 180 main, #2 E tube, 0,50 acc pump jet and the main that is needed for the venturi size.
you run a 009, OK. first, check that the pinion drive lash is between 0,4 & 0,8mm at the very most. I like to be at 0,5 - 0,6 mm.
Set the idle timing to 10-11 BTDC and reduce max advance to 30 BTDC.
you are using an electronic points replacement right. Now set the plug gap to 0,85 - 0,9 mm. - Yes I mean it.

Now start the engine and dial in your final acc pump setting and main jetting. I´m gonna bet my lunch that it stops bogging now, and will pull the same lower rpm power as with the NDIXés and then some in the mid upper rpm band.

Have fun.
T


"PaytonD21's Thread: What cam for a mild 1776


Just wondering what Alstrup is saying here about the distributor's pinion drive Lash, what, slop the distributor to the Drive gear has? How would I measure it?
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 7:34 am    Post subject: Re: Building a Stock ish Type 1 engine for the 1971 VW Bus? Reply with quote

It refers to how high\low the distributor drive gear stands versus the brass gear on the crank.

Those washers that sit in the distributor drive gear hole have specific thicknesses that, when properly combined will provide the correct lash noted above.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 7:58 am    Post subject: Re: Building a Stock ish Type 1 engine for the 1971 VW Bus? Reply with quote

I think it is in Wilson or Bentley. As I recall it is measured with the case spilt. It makes sure that the drive gear rides in the correct spot on the brass gear. It is only on a type 1. You can't stack washers on a type 4.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 6:22 pm    Post subject: Should I advance this cam? Reply with quote

Mock up with the W-100 cam looked like this:
Everything was measured @.050" valve lift and Zero lash:
VW Type 1 Engine 1679cc 1.1:1 Stock Ratio Rockers
W-100 Camshaft
Valve Lift (Intake .432"), (Exhaust .412")
Intake Opens 12' BTDC, Exhaust Closes 8.5' ATDC
Intake Closes 45' ABDC, Exhaust Opens 45' BBDC
Gross Cam Lift: Calculated .432"/1.1=.392" Intake
Gross Cam Lift: Calculated .412"/1.1=.375" Exhaust
Duration @50 12+180+45=237'
A W-100 Cam Card:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Mock-Up
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Just took a look back at the Mock Up cam readings for this engine and You know, Is it off by 2' degrees? I think I will measure it again now that it's been running. Wondering if It would benefit from a 2' degree advanced gear?
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 11:35 am    Post subject: Sort of Vintage Look Reply with quote

Since my spare bus engine is kind of vintage looking I am thinking of making it look even more vintage and had some questions about fitting it to my 1960 VW Beetle while I rebuild it's 36 horse engine but will it fit?

Here "hlwimmer" posted a sweet Zenith Carbureatorated 1776cc installed in a 63 beetle and it seems to fit, looks like the firewall had to come out on the sides though, I took some measurements of my engine and it's going to be tight!
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Here my Stock ish 1679cc sort of Vintage Dual Zenith motor. Any Suggestion on things to do as far as looks and engine compartment fit would be greatly appreciated.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 4:32 pm    Post subject: Stock ish Type 1 engine configured for 6 volts. Reply with quote

So I have been playing with Engine configuration a bit for installing this engine into an early beetle. (6 Volt Generator and backing installed using CB 36 Horse Dog House):

35" Engine Width at Carbs:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


34" Engine Width at Carbs with Sanders & Sons NDIX Aluminum Manifolds:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


31.5" with the Carbs Reversed:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 9:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Building a Stock ish Type 1 engine for the 1971 VW Bus? Reply with quote

Danwvw wrote:
Thanks Amskeptic Not sure what effect the edge has on combustion perhaps it helps.
Ok the next thing I am trying to figure out is cylinder shims, My compression will be about right without them so I am wondering if should use metal paper or none at all and what to seal them with.
The Paper measures about .085" and the 10 thousands metal shims are actually measuring .012" to .014"
My Deck is measuring .050" without any shims or paper gasket.
Edit! In the final assembly no gasket was used.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


My Deck is measuring .050" without any shims or paper gasket.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


CB Performance Engine Calculator
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 4:17 pm    Post subject: Stock ish Type 1 engine for the 1971 VW Bus but put in a beetle! Reply with quote

Converted to 6 Volt and Installed in the 1960 Beetle while the Original 36 Horse Engine is restored.
This thread will be where I post about this engine as it goes through it's time in the beetle.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:57 pm    Post subject: Stock ish Type 1 engine for the 1971 VW Bus but put in a beetle! Reply with quote

Did a lot of driving today got a feel for how the 1679cc is in a Beetle.
Head Temps: Running 300' f easy driving and the Oil Temp as high as 212' f
Intake Manifold temp center around 140' f
Carbs 110-95' f
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The Stock-ish 1679cc in the 1960 Beetle is Extremely Driveable! Nice Ride. Solid Feeling engine. Only the first 1/4 throttle is needed to put it through its paces. Definitely constricted with the stock exhaust! But a nice quite torque'ee little engine.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:15 pm    Post subject: Stock ish Type 1 engine for the 1971 VW Bus but put in a beetle! Reply with quote

Meant to run Brake-in Oil but forgot and wound up putting in More Castrol 5W30 and ZDDP. This engine still blows some smoke on the occasional start-up. Most of the time though it's just fine.
Here is where I mounted the oil filter:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 10:34 am    Post subject: Stock ish Type 1 engine for the 1971 VW Bus but put in a beetle! Reply with quote

Here is a short video I took the other day of the Stockish 1679cc engine running in the 1960 Beetle. The purpose of the video is to listen to the valves. The order videoed is 1,2,3,4.
Still running the Stock Bus Muffler with J-tubes.
The engine seems to be loosening up a little. Just went for a drive this morning with outside air temps about 65' F the oil temp was 205' F after the drive which finished with a jaunt on the highway.


Link

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 6:50 pm    Post subject: Stock ish Type 1 engine for the 1971 VW Bus but put in a beetle! Reply with quote

1679cc Type 1 Dual Port Engine, Jtubes, Stock Bus Muffler.

I think it's running rich at least at idle! This NGK BP6ES Spark Plug was new, 150 miles on it now:
Dual Zenith NDIX 32 Carburetors Current Configuration:

35.5mm X 32mm Valves L3 heads,
W-100 cam,
Intake Manifolds: Vintage Scat Steel Dual Port to NDIX Scat Manifolds Now Aluminum SS Manifolds,
Dual Zenith NDIX 32 P010 carbs configured Porsche: L, R, No Crossover, No Chokes,
24mm, 25mm venturi's,
Jets:
180, 210 Air correction,
120, 115 main,
60, 50 idle jets,
55, 40 Accel Pump Jets, #2 Nozzles,
Long pump plungers, (Linkage leverage set long for least pumping).


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Stock ish Type 1 engine for the 1971 VW Bus but put in a beetle! Reply with quote

Danwvw wrote:
Meant to run Brake-in Oil but forgot and wound up putting in More Castrol 5W30 and ZDDP.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Interesting that you went with the 5W30. I use to run the Castrol 20/50 but after reading lots of oil posts here I go with the Castrol 10W30 with the Lucas ZDDP. My builder is not very happy with that decision and wants me to run the 20/50, but I feel that’s too thick for a new, tight engine.

The routing of those oil lines near the J-tubes and those hose clamps on the fittings scare me. I’d be worried about burning through a line or having one of those lines pop off the fitting. I’m sure you’re aware that an AN fitting would be much more secure and if you are gonna run the lines so close to the exhaust, you might want to consider a heat shield for your lines.

https://www.verociousmotorsports.com/Shop-by-Categ...-Oil-Lines

Engine looks great! I wish you many happy miles with it! VW Logo
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:39 pm    Post subject: Stock ish Type 1 engine for the 1971 VW Bus but put in a beetle! Reply with quote

In Colorado! Man you need light oil in the winter! 20 50 might work in a 21mm oil pump in the summertime. I've got a 26mm pump. I don't know, I guess if you have a burg oil pressure bypass valve on her. I don't!
Those lines scare me too! That's why the Aluminum foil! The An Fitting would be nice for sure. I am just running 2 hose clamps which actually is really strong. I think the heavy oil might work ok in Colorado in the summer if let Idle a bit before revving the engine if cold. My oil pressure spikes well over 60 PSI when the engine is cool with the 5W30 motor oil. But after just 1 minute of fast Idle it's manageable.
Good to hear from you Rich!
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