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iluvmywesty
Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2004
Posts: 65
Location: North Carolina
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 Posted: Sun May 29, 2005 5:36 pm Post subject: blinker / e flasher problem 67 12v |
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we have a 67 westy 12v that has a new problem. last night i searched all the related topics and tried alot of the suggestions today. i still have the problem. when i turn on the right blinker all the front and back signal lights start flashing  when i turn on the left blinker it works correctly. i have checked fuses, bulbs, grounds, signal swicth, e switch and head light connections, 9 pin flasher box and a few other ideas i had. all seems to be ok. 2 weeks ago all was working well when it passed the safety inspection. anyone ever have this same problem? any help would be appreciated. thanks, steve |
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bill may
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Joined: August 27, 2003
Posts: 14160
Location: san diego,ca
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mstephens28
Samba Member
Joined: September 28, 2013
Posts: 49
Location: Bakersfield, CA
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| Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 1:29 am Post subject: 67 bus right rear blinker |
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| I have a 67 bus with original, seemingly unmolested wiring. It sat for 30 years but after replacing all the fuses and bulbs, most of the lights have gradually come to life. So far I've got everything working (tailights, brake lights, front blinkers, and right rear blinker) except the left rear blinker. Does this sound like something involving the 9 Prong Box? |
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crukab
Samba Chef
Joined: December 13, 2002
Posts: 6116
Location: Vermont
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| Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 7:30 am Post subject: |
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It could be a bad 9 pin box, I had a new one from WW not work, 2nd one worked fine. I also a ground wire to each rear light.
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Tom
My Pops:
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I know you will always be with me, rest in peace with no more pain. 8/13/14.....
In the yard right now:
'51 Dodge 5 window truck
'65 Bug
'66 Singlecab
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olliehank47
Samba Member
Joined: May 04, 2011
Posts: 1198
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| Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 8:38 am Post subject: Re: 67 bus right rear blinker |
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| mstephens28 wrote: |
| I have a 67 bus with original, seemingly unmolested wiring. It sat for 30 years but after replacing all the fuses and bulbs, most of the lights have gradually come to life. So far I've got everything working (tailights, brake lights, front blinkers, and right rear blinker) except the left rear blinker. Does this sound like something involving the 9 Prong Box? |
Not likely the 9-pin box.
On a 67, the box feeds one signal for the rear lights into the turn signal switch where it splits into right/left. If both brake lights work when pushing on the brake pedal, then it's not a ground at the light fixture (though it is highly recommended that you ground each fixture separately to the frame.) The brake light and turn signal light use the same circuit, so if the brake lights work, the circuit is good. The only difference between the two routes to the rear lights is through the turn signal switch, so you probably have a problem inside the turn signal switch itself. Disassemble the switch and clean the contacts inside with electrical spray cleaner and look at the contacts as you move the arm of the switch to see if they are making good contact with the soldered connections. You'll know what I mean when you take the switch apart. |
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mstephens28
Samba Member
Joined: September 28, 2013
Posts: 49
Location: Bakersfield, CA
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| Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Okay, I had the turn signal switch apart yesterday so I know what you mean. It looked dusty but otherwise functional. Could it still be the turn signal switch even though the front blinkers on both sides work fine? |
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BarryL 
Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2004
Posts: 14271
Location: Casa de Oro, California
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| Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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| If the front works fine then no. You need to trace out the rear light. It also goes through the brake light circuit. Do the brake lights work bright and equal? |
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mstephens28
Samba Member
Joined: September 28, 2013
Posts: 49
Location: Bakersfield, CA
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| Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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| The brake lights seem quite bright to me. Hard to say if they are equal for sure because I've just been looking in reflections. The tailights are bright and equal if that makes a difference. |
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olliehank47
Samba Member
Joined: May 04, 2011
Posts: 1198
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| Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 8:37 pm Post subject: |
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| mstephens28 wrote: |
| The brake lights seem quite bright to me. Hard to say if they are equal for sure because I've just been looking in reflections. The tailights are bright and equal if that makes a difference. |
Tail lights are on a different circuit, but their intensity will help determine if the light fixture is well grounded.
The front turn signals do go through the turn signal switch, but are on different contacts. Just because the fronts work does not mean the rear contacts are working.
The turn signals get power from 49a, not 54f which is the brake light. When you move the turn signal arm, sliding contacts connected to 49a move to contact the terminals to the front and rear lights--four separate contacts. If the contact for the left rear light is dirty, that light will not blink but all others will.
Look at the diagram from this link for the 9 pin box. http://www.type2.com/library/electris/vw-9prong
The link will also tell you how to test the switch. |
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mstephens28
Samba Member
Joined: September 28, 2013
Posts: 49
Location: Bakersfield, CA
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| Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 10:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Thank you, looks like a great link for trouble shooting. Good to know that it could still be the turn signal switch. Seems like the most likely culprit at this point. |
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BarryL
Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2004
Posts: 14271
Location: Casa de Oro, California
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| Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 8:45 am Post subject: |
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| olliehank47 wrote: |
| -four separate contacts |
Thanks for fixing that. |
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olliehank47
Samba Member
Joined: May 04, 2011
Posts: 1198
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| Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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| BarryL wrote: |
| olliehank47 wrote: |
| -four separate contacts |
Thanks for fixing that. |
No problem, we're all in this together with the same goal--help each other out and keep 'em rolling. |
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shanks
Samba Member
Joined: June 20, 2016
Posts: 56
Location: Elizabeth, CO
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| Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2020 4:11 pm Post subject: Re: blinker / e flasher problem 67 12v |
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Resurrecting this old thread since I have similar issues with my 1967 Deluxe 12v with mostly original wiring.
Started down the wiring path because I had no blinker, brake or tail lights. First discovered that the power wire to pin 30 on the 9-pin box was missing so I replaced it. I cleaned and rewired the brake switch wires and used the troubleshooting guide here http://www.type2.com/library/electris/vw-9prong.html and in another thread here on The Samba to discover that I had a problem with the box. The input signal to pin 54 was not being output to pin 54f. So I installed a new 9-pin box from Wolfsburg West. Also installed new tail light housings since the bulb holders were shot and mostly fell apart when I removed the bulbs and wires for cleaning. Both housings are grounded directly to the body. I have the correct response for terminals VL, VR, 56f, and 49a per the above troubleshooting guide. And I have good working brake and tail lights. I did not get the speedo lights to work but haven't pulled the shelf to look at the speedo wiring.
Still no blinkers or emergency flashers though. So I pulled apart the turn signal switch on the column and cleaned it with contact cleaner. I now have emergency flashers on all 4 corners but no blinker indicator in the speedo when they are on. The light in the flasher switch works and the relay clicks. The wiring of the turn signal switch looks to be in line with the wiring diagram with all the correct color wires soldered to the board. When I activate the turn signals I get no response at the lights and no clicking. This indicates to me that the problem may be in the switch but it checked out with the procedures above. Is there a more detailed check of the switch that I can do? Any other suggestions?
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1965 Beetle
1967 Deluxe Microbus
1969 Squareback |
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telford dorr
Samba Member
Joined: March 11, 2009
Posts: 3555
Location: San Diego (Encinitas)
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| Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2020 2:00 pm Post subject: Re: blinker / e flasher problem 67 12v |
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For reference:
1 - With the key on, check terminal 15 on the 9-pin relay and make sure that there's power there. If not, check fuse #7 (also powers the brake lights and wipers).
2 - Assuming test #1 passes, now connect the test light to 9-pin relay terminal 49. Does it light up? Does it flash?
3 - Assuming test #2 passes (it flashed), connect the test light to terminal 54BL (black/green/white wire on the turn signal switch. Does it light up? Does it flash?
4 - Assuming test #43 passed, move the turn switch to the left and right turn positions. Alternately connect the test light to turn switch VR (black/green wire) and HR ((black/red wire)(right turn), and VL (black/white wire) and HL (black/yellow wire) (left turn). It should light up and flash on the stated terminals for the stated position of the turn switch.
Note: for all tests, the other end of the test light connects to a good body ground.
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'71 panel, now with FI
'Experience' is the ability to recognize a mistake when you're making it again - Franklin P. Jones
In theory, theory works in practice; in practice, it doesn't - William T. Harbaugh
When you're dead, you don't know you're dead. The pain is only felt by others.
Same thing happens when you're stupid. - Philippe Geluck
More VW electrical at http://telforddorr.com/ (available 9am to 9pm PST) |
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shanks
Samba Member
Joined: June 20, 2016
Posts: 56
Location: Elizabeth, CO
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| Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:51 pm Post subject: Re: blinker / e flasher problem 67 12v |
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Thanks telford door! So happy there is help out there for an electrical novice like me!
Initially it failed step 1 and fuse 7 was good. I tried chasing the wire from terminal 15 on the 9-pin box but couldn't figure out where it goes (really cold here today so did not want to stay in garage too long). There is an inline fuse in this wire that was good and a PO had spliced in a couple of other wires to this wire for some reason. So I installed a jumper between fuse 7 and terminal 15. It passed all the tests and the blinkers work as normal. Except... they work with either the key on or off. I tried the jumper on both sides of fuse 7 with the same result. Still no blinker indicator, speedo light, oil pressure, or generator light in speedo.
So this tells me that fuse 7 is hot all the time when it should only be hot with the ignition on based on the wiring diagram. So I'll need to chase down the wires and where they go. Is there a problem having fuse 7 hot all the time or can I leave as is with the addition of a power wire to terminal 15?
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1965 Beetle
1967 Deluxe Microbus
1969 Squareback |
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telford dorr
Samba Member
Joined: March 11, 2009
Posts: 3555
Location: San Diego (Encinitas)
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| Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2020 2:51 pm Post subject: Re: blinker / e flasher problem 67 12v |
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| shanks wrote: |
| So this tells me that fuse 7 is hot all the time when it should only be hot with the ignition on based on the wiring diagram. So I'll need to chase down the wires and where they go. |
Yup. fortunately, there aren't that many of them. Just do it one wire at a time...
Copy the schematic for your bus from Technical to a thumb drive, take it down to Kinko's and have it printed (11 x 14, in color) and laminated. You can mark off the wires on the laminate with an erasable marker pin as you verify them.
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| Is there a problem having fuse 7 hot all the time or can I leave as is with the addition of a power wire to terminal 15? |
Only if you like random dead batteries. Better to rework it back to factory stock. Millions of buses were built and wired to factory stock, and they all worked well...
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| Still no blinker indicator, speedo light, oil pressure, or generator light in speedo. |
There should be an unfused black wire that goes from the ignition switch (D) terminal #15 to the indicator lights on the speedo assy. This powers all the indicator lights when the key is on.
Sounds like the PO reworked your bus but didn't do you any favors...
_________________
'71 panel, now with FI
'Experience' is the ability to recognize a mistake when you're making it again - Franklin P. Jones
In theory, theory works in practice; in practice, it doesn't - William T. Harbaugh
When you're dead, you don't know you're dead. The pain is only felt by others.
Same thing happens when you're stupid. - Philippe Geluck
More VW electrical at http://telforddorr.com/ (available 9am to 9pm PST) |
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shanks
Samba Member
Joined: June 20, 2016
Posts: 56
Location: Elizabeth, CO
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| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2020 8:15 am Post subject: Re: blinker / e flasher problem 67 12v |
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Had some time this weekend to work on this a bit more. I installed a new wire from fuse 7 to terminal 15 on the 9-pin box instead of a jumper. Took the bus for a spin and all lights and blinkers appeared to be working correctly. Got home and went to shut off the engine and nothing happened. I could turn the ignition to off and remove the key and it kept running. Popped the clutch to stall the engine and removed the negative battery terminal. Time for more wiring checks.
I pulled the speedo cable and package tray to get at all the wiring. Pulled ignition switch and tested it with a battery and test light. With power applied to terminal 30 and key off nothing at terminals 15 and 50, check. Key on, power at terminal 15, check. Key in start position, power at terminal 50, check. So ignition switch is working.
First issue I found was the wiring to ignition and headlight switch. Ignition was wired directly to fuse 7 and headlight switch was wired directly to fuse 8. Waiting on some OG style terminals and it will be fixed. Second, no wires from headlight pin 57 to parking lights. Need to add some wires for this.
More to come I'm sure as I keep going through the wiring. I'll post my findings here for others to follow.
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1965 Beetle
1967 Deluxe Microbus
1969 Squareback |
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Jade
Samba Member
Joined: April 20, 2004
Posts: 63
Location: Houston, TX
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2020 1:15 pm Post subject: Re: blinker / e flasher problem 67 12v |
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Is the dash pull-switch no longer for sale new for spit-busses? Mine is bad.
I have 2 different issues as to why the emergency flashers aren't working. Tested the switch and then tried using Matt Roberds troubleshooting guide and I think I will have to run a 2 or 3 prong universal flasher switch. I'm running a dual relay system I put in some 12 years ago from ??? and the turn signals work, but when I bypass the flasher switch nothing happens.
Not sure.
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'66 11 window
Last edited by Jade on Wed Nov 04, 2020 1:29 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24764
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2020 1:25 pm Post subject: Re: blinker / e flasher problem 67 12v |
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| Jade wrote: |
Is the dash pull-switch no longer for sale new for spit-busses? Mine is bad.
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Helps to know the year of bus.
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In Stereo, Where Available! |
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Jade
Samba Member
Joined: April 20, 2004
Posts: 63
Location: Houston, TX
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2020 1:30 pm Post subject: Re: blinker / e flasher problem 67 12v |
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| Eric&Barb wrote: |
| Jade wrote: |
Is the dash pull-switch no longer for sale new for spit-busses? Mine is bad.
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Helps to know the year of bus. |
If it had teeth it would have bit you Chief. Look at my signature.
What's with the attitude?
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