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Losty420
Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2020
Posts: 13
Location: Missouri
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 Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 6:47 pm Post subject: New 411 now what? |
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| Just picked up a 72 411. Ea engine code. Has been mostly garaged/not started since 1986. Aftermarket ac added sometime. Otherwise all original unmolested and intact. Actually decent shape What the hell do I do now? Engine rotates easily. Gas tank smells horrible. Fix it? Part it ? Sell it? |
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ubercrap
Samba Moderator
Joined: July 01, 2004
Posts: 1060
Location: Ridley Park, PA
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| Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 7:58 pm Post subject: Re: New 411 now what? |
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Post some pics, it'd be a shame to part one that sounds that decent- honestly there are plenty of the most common parts out there already. What body style? Where in MO are you? I grew up in SW MO, about 120 mi south of KC not too far from the KS border.
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'74 412 wagon
(2) '74 412 2dr. sedan
'73 412 2dr. sedan |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21519
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 9:30 pm Post subject: Re: New 411 now what? |
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Welcome!
Also....100% of the AC systems were "after market". Actually none of them came from the factory with AC. The AC was added by the dealer. In many cases like the trunk mounted condenser under the spare tire...it looks all hacked up like its aftermarket.
The factory only added a wire or two in the main harness to facilitate the AC install when needed. Ray |
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Losty420
Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2020
Posts: 13
Location: Missouri
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| Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2020 7:42 pm Post subject: Re: New 411 now what? |
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| Thanks for the welcome. Learning this website still. More pictures and questions to follow |
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ubercrap
Samba Moderator
Joined: July 01, 2004
Posts: 1060
Location: Ridley Park, PA
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| Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2020 8:09 am Post subject: Re: New 411 now what? |
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I just saw some pics from the gallery you posted, it's a 411 2dr coupe/fastback! Don't part this out, please! It looks good! These are quite rare for a VW and hard to find in good shape! If you don't want it, please try to sell it or let us (or me) on here know and I'm sure we can figure a deal out (I have cheap storage units currently still south of KC where I store my extra cars)! 
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'74 412 wagon
(2) '74 412 2dr. sedan
'73 412 2dr. sedan |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21519
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2020 11:50 am Post subject: Re: New 411 now what? |
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Yes...if its a two door "coupe"....from what I can find...a little over 4000 were shipped to North America.
They all had D-jet and 4 speed transmission. Rare.
Ray |
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ubercrap
Samba Moderator
Joined: July 01, 2004
Posts: 1060
Location: Ridley Park, PA
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| Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2020 1:15 pm Post subject: Re: New 411 now what? |
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| raygreenwood wrote: |
Yes...if its a two door "coupe"....from what I can find...a little over 4000 were shipped to North America.
They all had D-jet and 4 speed transmission. Rare.
Ray |
Yes, check out their gallery pics, it's a 411 coupe. It looks like the 411 counterpart to my '73 412 Texas Yellow avatar car. . Only mine is piece of crap. 
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'74 412 wagon
(2) '74 412 2dr. sedan
'73 412 2dr. sedan |
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ClassicCamper
Samba Member
Joined: December 17, 2002
Posts: 679
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| Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2020 5:58 pm Post subject: Re: New 411 now what? |
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| raygreenwood wrote: |
Welcome!
Also....100% of the AC systems were "after market". Actually none of them came from the factory with AC. The AC was added by the dealer. In many cases like the trunk mounted condenser under the spare tire...it looks all hacked up like its aftermarket.
The factory only added a wire or two in the main harness to facilitate the AC install when needed. Ray |
Even though the A/C systems were installed at the dealer, DPD was authorized by VWOA and the dealerships all stocked parts for them. Each part was given a "ZVW" part designation.
I actually have all of the parts manuals from the mid-60's to the mid 80's, covering all VW models made at the time. Here is a sample: (sorry for the sideways images!)
If anyone needs images, feel free to PM me, I'll be glad to send. The manuals are extremely thick, and don't know if I'll have time to upload them all to the site.
These images helped me install my A/C system which I just completed last night:
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1973 412 Wagon
1976 Westy
1978 SB Vert |
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Losty420
Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2020
Posts: 13
Location: Missouri
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| Posted: Sat Nov 14, 2020 9:15 pm Post subject: Re: New 411 now what? |
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Your in Iowa Ray? This is an Iowa car actually. It moved to Missouri a while back.
Very overwhelming. Had five various ACVW, but it’s been twenty years. I feel like I should know where to start, but t it needs everything. Suspension fuel tank drivetrain. Diagnose electrical later? I’m r try a battery before I remove anything? Not gonna hit the starter, but I wanna turn the key. I think.... |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21519
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Sat Nov 14, 2020 10:46 pm Post subject: Re: New 411 now what? |
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| Losty420 wrote: |
Your in Iowa Ray? This is an Iowa car actually. It moved to Missouri a while back.
Very overwhelming. Had five various ACVW, but it’s been twenty years. I feel like I should know where to start, but t it needs everything. Suspension fuel tank drivetrain. Diagnose electrical later? I’m r try a battery before I remove anything? Not gonna hit the starter, but I wanna turn the key. I think.... |
Slow down!
I used to be in Iowa. I am in Oklahoma city about two years now.
First...tell us what it still has. If its fuel injected....which is good...it will need a few things to be set right just from age...to start.
Also...I try to stop people form doing the "40 year old VW found in a barn...will it start".....thing.
Thats the fastest way to to screw up what might have been an easily fixable engine. Rust on cylinders destroys rings. Varnish locked valves in guides bends valves and destroys pistons.
The fuel injection cannot have any loose or broken wires, the sensors must have the right resistance....and "0" vacuum leaks allowed. Fuel pressure must be spot on.
Its not hard to fix....but you have to start somewhere.
We cab get to cleaning up, setting the engine right and starting it.
Most probably...if its a four speed...your clutch master and slave are shot...age alone. We can work on that.
Once you get it started and moving...yeah...don't drive it far....there are suspensions and brake issues.
Its not any "harder" than other VW's...just that parts are not as easy to find. Ray |
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Losty420
Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2020
Posts: 13
Location: Missouri
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| Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 11:11 am Post subject: Re: New 411 now what? |
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I really want to keep this car. |
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Losty420
Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2020
Posts: 13
Location: Missouri
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| Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 11:27 am Post subject: Re: New 411 now what? |
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| All original car. Two door manual d-jet. Where to begin? Aftermarket brake parts or rebuild master cylinder and calipers? The first hurdle is the gas tank. Not sure that’s where I want to start though. Temporary fuel tank to begin working with d jet? |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21519
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:21 pm Post subject: Re: New 411 now what? |
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| Losty420 wrote: |
| All original car. Two door manual d-jet. Where to begin? Aftermarket brake parts or rebuild master cylinder and calipers? The first hurdle is the gas tank. Not sure that’s where I want to start though. Temporary fuel tank to begin working with d jet? |
First....lets take a really good look at the rust. Not suggesting anything......but theze cars do not have a "pan". Lets make sure that this car is surviveable. Tjat rust apot in your picture is pretty serious.....because that ruat starts on the inside in an area thst is behind the ront carpet....at the front firewall/floor area/end of jeater channel joint.....and part of it is inaccessible. In certain ways you can,work around it.
You just really want to make sure that the whole pan is not gone and that the suspension underpinnings are not rusted out front and rear. There is not actually that much holding these parts on because this is a "crash cell" car and they are somewhat designed to shear away.
The front pedal assembly is commonly rusted just like that.....because of a combination of brake fluid and leaks from the front windshield. It stays damp from condensation and corrodes. But....since you will probably need to remove it to best service everything.....its easy to clean up and paint.
There are not really any aftermarket parts for brakes or clutch.
The master cylinder for brakes.....you will neeed to rebuild. If it has no rust pits in the bore it cand be "lapped".....no honing....other than maybe with a 400-600 grit flex hone to clean out scale. Then you can steal the seals and clap valves from a late type 3 master cylinder rebuild kit.
At some point soon....I am replating a batch of type 4 cylinder bores to make them rebuildable to better than factory spec. They will be hard nickel... so as long as you never scratch them they will last forever.
The same for the clutch master bore. You can steal a rebuild kit for a Vanagon clutch master cylinder and use just the seals or the whole kit to rebuild yours.
In a pinch....the Vanagon clutch MC can be attached to an angle iron bracket and used complete with some tweaks.
The clutch slave......you need to find out if you have the early one.....which was 22.25mm or the late one which was 44.5mm. Neither are easily available except NOS. Tje NOS ones you do find cannot be used as the seals are shot. If you find a rebuild seal KIT.....it can be used....if you can install the seal without tearing it.
I noted in late spring that I think I have found a NEW available seal that will work in the 44.5mm slave. I just need to call the company and get a sample purchased.
I will try to make a point to do that in the am. If it works.....I can then mold a boot easily of high temp silicone. I will not try to mold the boot until I have a seal that works.....because buying the correct silicone is a chunk of cash. Not huge.....but its about $100 for materials. That would be enough material to make about 30-40 boots plus a few other parts I need.
So until I can provide them as a pair...new seal and boot.....I will not spend the $ on boot making. But.....its been long enough so I will see what I can do this week.
A clutch slave from a golf mk 5 or 6 can be made to work with a bracket plate. I kjow it can for a fact....I just have not done it yet. I have an old one I can mock up.....but ai will need to pull my transmission. Engine is out so its not a huge deal.
Aftermarket calipers....yes you can get them. Do not buy remanufactured. Almost all of them are re-pistoned and or sleeved.....the workmanship is spotty....and the parts are all now non-standard so future rebuilds would be impossible.
Your calipers will likely be rebuildable. Factory level kits can be had for about $20 per caliper. Even new pistons can occasionally be found from Centric. And....if you buy brand new calipers....centric is your current only go to. I would rebuild your own.
Ray |
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Pepperbilly
Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2017
Posts: 977
Location: Seattle, Wa
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| Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:52 pm Post subject: Re: New 411 now what? |
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Exciting to see another 411 out there. Ray is correct that you need to evaluate the rust in the vehicle. Hopefully it is a survivor...these are pretty rare cars but when restored correctly, they are a dream to drive! I am currently purchasing alot of my front brake parts thru PMB Performance. Rebuild kits, rebuilt calipers and so on. This is a wonderful place to look. Good luck with your project!
Bill |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21519
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:00 pm Post subject: Re: New 411 now what? |
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| Pepperbilly wrote: |
Exciting to see another 411 out there. Ray is correct that you need to evaluate the rust in the vehicle. Hopefully it is a survivor...these are pretty rare cars but when restored correctly, they are a dream to drive! I am currently purchasing alot of my front brake parts thru PMB Performance. Rebuild kits, rebuilt calipers and so on. This is a wonderful place to look. Good luck with your project!
Bill |
Yes!....spot on!.
PMB.....their rebuilt calipers will be roughly 2.5 to 3.0 times the price of any rebuild yoy find someplace like Rockauto. But worth every penny. They are carefully rebuilt with ALL proper seals and are re-plated and zinc chromated and/or painted. They run about $325 a pair.....but are factory perfect.
Rebuild kits....are 100% correct and have ALL of the seals....and are dirt cheap at about $20 per caliper. Ray |
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Losty420
Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2020
Posts: 13
Location: Missouri
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| Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2020 4:13 pm Post subject: Re: New 411 now what? |
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Losty420
Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2020
Posts: 13
Location: Missouri
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| Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2020 4:16 pm Post subject: Re: New 411 now what? |
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| Front end looking up. Am I in the right place to evaluate rust? Rear to follow. Ray you are a treasure trove of knowledge. Thanks for everything so far and etc. |
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Pepperbilly
Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2017
Posts: 977
Location: Seattle, Wa
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| Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2020 5:12 pm Post subject: Re: New 411 now what? |
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You will really have to get way up there between the fenders and the upper trunk join area. I thought I had little rust until I actually pulled the front fenders off. Don't think it's ok...you will have to take things apart, trust me. You should also pull the rear fenders off... turns out mine were pretty good back there. But there is still some correcting to be done. Oh and on the fronts, carefully look in the upper trunk area where the fender bolts are. You may find rusty pin holes. I have them on my wagon.
Bill |
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ubercrap
Samba Moderator
Joined: July 01, 2004
Posts: 1060
Location: Ridley Park, PA
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| Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 6:50 pm Post subject: Re: New 411 now what? |
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I personally wouldn't go ripping into it unless/until you are fully committed. Ask me how I know... I think it looks friggin' great compared to how bad it could be. I've had some rusted out junk in my day! I think it's about as good a 411 coupe project as has cropped up in a long time, I'd be pleased with a find like this for sure!
_________________
'74 412 wagon
(2) '74 412 2dr. sedan
'73 412 2dr. sedan |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21519
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 9:12 pm Post subject: Re: New 411 now what? |
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First thing.....pressure wash that thing. That looks like mud spray or dirt everywhere....or even worse...it looks like spray can undercoating. Wash that off....and take another picture.
Ray |
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