Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts  See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
New 411 now what?
Forum Index -> 411/412 Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Losty420
Samba Member


Joined: November 11, 2020
Posts: 6
Location: Missouri
Losty420 is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 6:47 pm    Post subject: New 411 now what? Reply with quote

Just picked up a 72 411. Ea engine code. Has been mostly garaged/not started since 1986. Aftermarket ac added sometime. Otherwise all original unmolested and intact. Actually decent shape What the hell do I do now? Engine rotates easily. Gas tank smells horrible. Fix it? Part it ? Sell it?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
ubercrap
Samba Moderator


Joined: July 01, 2004
Posts: 958
Location: Ridley Park, PA
ubercrap is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 7:58 pm    Post subject: Re: New 411 now what? Reply with quote

Post some pics, it'd be a shame to part one that sounds that decent- honestly there are plenty of the most common parts out there already. What body style? Where in MO are you? I grew up in SW MO, about 120 mi south of KC not too far from the KS border.
_________________
'74 412 wagon
(2) '74 412 2dr. sedan
'73 412 2dr. sedan
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
raygreenwood
Samba Member


Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 17910
Location: Oklahoma City
raygreenwood is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 9:30 pm    Post subject: Re: New 411 now what? Reply with quote

Welcome!

Also....100% of the AC systems were "after market". Actually none of them came from the factory with AC. The AC was added by the dealer. In many cases like the trunk mounted condenser under the spare tire...it looks all hacked up like its aftermarket.

The factory only added a wire or two in the main harness to facilitate the AC install when needed. Ray
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Losty420
Samba Member


Joined: November 11, 2020
Posts: 6
Location: Missouri
Losty420 is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2020 7:42 pm    Post subject: Re: New 411 now what? Reply with quote

Thanks for the welcome. Learning this website still. More pictures and questions to follow
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
ubercrap
Samba Moderator


Joined: July 01, 2004
Posts: 958
Location: Ridley Park, PA
ubercrap is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2020 8:09 am    Post subject: Re: New 411 now what? Reply with quote

I just saw some pics from the gallery you posted, it's a 411 2dr coupe/fastback! Don't part this out, please! It looks good! These are quite rare for a VW and hard to find in good shape! If you don't want it, please try to sell it or let us (or me) on here know and I'm sure we can figure a deal out (I have cheap storage units currently still south of KC where I store my extra cars)! Very Happy
_________________
'74 412 wagon
(2) '74 412 2dr. sedan
'73 412 2dr. sedan
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
raygreenwood
Samba Member


Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 17910
Location: Oklahoma City
raygreenwood is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2020 11:50 am    Post subject: Re: New 411 now what? Reply with quote

Yes...if its a two door "coupe"....from what I can find...a little over 4000 were shipped to North America.

They all had D-jet and 4 speed transmission. Rare.

Ray
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
ubercrap
Samba Moderator


Joined: July 01, 2004
Posts: 958
Location: Ridley Park, PA
ubercrap is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2020 1:15 pm    Post subject: Re: New 411 now what? Reply with quote

raygreenwood wrote:
Yes...if its a two door "coupe"....from what I can find...a little over 4000 were shipped to North America.

They all had D-jet and 4 speed transmission. Rare.

Ray


Yes, check out their gallery pics, it's a 411 coupe. It looks like the 411 counterpart to my '73 412 Texas Yellow avatar car. Very Happy. Only mine is piece of crap. Laughing
_________________
'74 412 wagon
(2) '74 412 2dr. sedan
'73 412 2dr. sedan
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
ClassicCamper
Samba Member


Joined: December 17, 2002
Posts: 590

ClassicCamper is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2020 5:58 pm    Post subject: Re: New 411 now what? Reply with quote

raygreenwood wrote:
Welcome!

Also....100% of the AC systems were "after market". Actually none of them came from the factory with AC. The AC was added by the dealer. In many cases like the trunk mounted condenser under the spare tire...it looks all hacked up like its aftermarket.

The factory only added a wire or two in the main harness to facilitate the AC install when needed. Ray


Even though the A/C systems were installed at the dealer, DPD was authorized by VWOA and the dealerships all stocked parts for them. Each part was given a "ZVW" part designation.

I actually have all of the parts manuals from the mid-60's to the mid 80's, covering all VW models made at the time. Here is a sample: (sorry for the sideways images!)


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


If anyone needs images, feel free to PM me, I'll be glad to send. The manuals are extremely thick, and don't know if I'll have time to upload them all to the site.

These images helped me install my A/C system which I just completed last night:


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
1973 412 Wagon
1974 Autostick SB
1976 Westy
1978 SB Vert
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Losty420
Samba Member


Joined: November 11, 2020
Posts: 6
Location: Missouri
Losty420 is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2020 9:15 pm    Post subject: Re: New 411 now what? Reply with quote

Your in Iowa Ray? This is an Iowa car actually. It moved to Missouri a while back.

Very overwhelming. Had five various ACVW, but itís been twenty years. I feel like I should know where to start, but t it needs everything. Suspension fuel tank drivetrain. Diagnose electrical later? Iím r try a battery before I remove anything? Not gonna hit the starter, but I wanna turn the key. I think....
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
raygreenwood
Samba Member


Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 17910
Location: Oklahoma City
raygreenwood is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2020 10:46 pm    Post subject: Re: New 411 now what? Reply with quote

Losty420 wrote:
Your in Iowa Ray? This is an Iowa car actually. It moved to Missouri a while back.

Very overwhelming. Had five various ACVW, but itís been twenty years. I feel like I should know where to start, but t it needs everything. Suspension fuel tank drivetrain. Diagnose electrical later? Iím r try a battery before I remove anything? Not gonna hit the starter, but I wanna turn the key. I think....


Slow down! Very Happy

I used to be in Iowa. I am in Oklahoma city about two years now.

First...tell us what it still has. If its fuel injected....which is good...it will need a few things to be set right just from age...to start.

Also...I try to stop people form doing the "40 year old VW found in a barn...will it start".....thing.

Thats the fastest way to to screw up what might have been an easily fixable engine. Rust on cylinders destroys rings. Varnish locked valves in guides bends valves and destroys pistons.

The fuel injection cannot have any loose or broken wires, the sensors must have the right resistance....and "0" vacuum leaks allowed. Fuel pressure must be spot on.

Its not hard to fix....but you have to start somewhere.

We cab get to cleaning up, setting the engine right and starting it.

Most probably...if its a four speed...your clutch master and slave are shot...age alone. We can work on that.

Once you get it started and moving...yeah...don't drive it far....there are suspensions and brake issues.

Its not any "harder" than other VW's...just that parts are not as easy to find. Ray
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Losty420
Samba Member


Joined: November 11, 2020
Posts: 6
Location: Missouri
Losty420 is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 11:11 am    Post subject: Re: New 411 now what? Reply with quote

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I really want to keep this car.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Losty420
Samba Member


Joined: November 11, 2020
Posts: 6
Location: Missouri
Losty420 is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 11:27 am    Post subject: Re: New 411 now what? Reply with quote

All original car. Two door manual d-jet. Where to begin? Aftermarket brake parts or rebuild master cylinder and calipers? The first hurdle is the gas tank. Not sure thatís where I want to start though. Temporary fuel tank to begin working with d jet?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
raygreenwood
Samba Member


Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 17910
Location: Oklahoma City
raygreenwood is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:21 pm    Post subject: Re: New 411 now what? Reply with quote

Losty420 wrote:
All original car. Two door manual d-jet. Where to begin? Aftermarket brake parts or rebuild master cylinder and calipers? The first hurdle is the gas tank. Not sure thatís where I want to start though. Temporary fuel tank to begin working with d jet?



First....lets take a really good look at the rust. Not suggesting anything......but theze cars do not have a "pan". Lets make sure that this car is surviveable. Tjat rust apot in your picture is pretty serious.....because that ruat starts on the inside in an area thst is behind the ront carpet....at the front firewall/floor area/end of jeater channel joint.....and part of it is inaccessible. In certain ways you can,work around it.

You just really want to make sure that the whole pan is not gone and that the suspension underpinnings are not rusted out front and rear. There is not actually that much holding these parts on because this is a "crash cell" car and they are somewhat designed to shear away.

The front pedal assembly is commonly rusted just like that.....because of a combination of brake fluid and leaks from the front windshield. It stays damp from condensation and corrodes. But....since you will probably need to remove it to best service everything.....its easy to clean up and paint.

There are not really any aftermarket parts for brakes or clutch.

The master cylinder for brakes.....you will neeed to rebuild. If it has no rust pits in the bore it cand be "lapped".....no honing....other than maybe with a 400-600 grit flex hone to clean out scale. Then you can steal the seals and clap valves from a late type 3 master cylinder rebuild kit.

At some point soon....I am replating a batch of type 4 cylinder bores to make them rebuildable to better than factory spec. They will be hard nickel... so as long as you never scratch them they will last forever.

The same for the clutch master bore. You can steal a rebuild kit for a Vanagon clutch master cylinder and use just the seals or the whole kit to rebuild yours.

In a pinch....the Vanagon clutch MC can be attached to an angle iron bracket and used complete with some tweaks.

The clutch slave......you need to find out if you have the early one.....which was 22.25mm or the late one which was 44.5mm. Neither are easily available except NOS. Tje NOS ones you do find cannot be used as the seals are shot. If you find a rebuild seal KIT.....it can be used....if you can install the seal without tearing it.

I noted in late spring that I think I have found a NEW available seal that will work in the 44.5mm slave. I just need to call the company and get a sample purchased.

I will try to make a point to do that in the am. If it works.....I can then mold a boot easily of high temp silicone. I will not try to mold the boot until I have a seal that works.....because buying the correct silicone is a chunk of cash. Not huge.....but its about $100 for materials. That would be enough material to make about 30-40 boots plus a few other parts I need.

So until I can provide them as a pair...new seal and boot.....I will not spend the $ on boot making. But.....its been long enough so I will see what I can do this week.

A clutch slave from a golf mk 5 or 6 can be made to work with a bracket plate. I kjow it can for a fact....I just have not done it yet. I have an old one I can mock up.....but ai will need to pull my transmission. Engine is out so its not a huge deal.

Aftermarket calipers....yes you can get them. Do not buy remanufactured. Almost all of them are re-pistoned and or sleeved.....the workmanship is spotty....and the parts are all now non-standard so future rebuilds would be impossible.

Your calipers will likely be rebuildable. Factory level kits can be had for about $20 per caliper. Even new pistons can occasionally be found from Centric. And....if you buy brand new calipers....centric is your current only go to. I would rebuild your own.

Ray
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Pepperbilly
Samba Member


Joined: April 08, 2017
Posts: 194
Location: Seattle, Wa
Pepperbilly is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:52 pm    Post subject: Re: New 411 now what? Reply with quote

Exciting to see another 411 out there. Ray is correct that you need to evaluate the rust in the vehicle. Hopefully it is a survivor...these are pretty rare cars but when restored correctly, they are a dream to drive! I am currently purchasing alot of my front brake parts thru PMB Performance. Rebuild kits, rebuilt calipers and so on. This is a wonderful place to look. Good luck with your project!
Bill
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
raygreenwood
Samba Member


Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 17910
Location: Oklahoma City
raygreenwood is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:00 pm    Post subject: Re: New 411 now what? Reply with quote

Pepperbilly wrote:
Exciting to see another 411 out there. Ray is correct that you need to evaluate the rust in the vehicle. Hopefully it is a survivor...these are pretty rare cars but when restored correctly, they are a dream to drive! I am currently purchasing alot of my front brake parts thru PMB Performance. Rebuild kits, rebuilt calipers and so on. This is a wonderful place to look. Good luck with your project!
Bill


Yes!....spot on!.

PMB.....their rebuilt calipers will be roughly 2.5 to 3.0 times the price of any rebuild yoy find someplace like Rockauto. But worth every penny. They are carefully rebuilt with ALL proper seals and are re-plated and zinc chromated and/or painted. They run about $325 a pair.....but are factory perfect.

Rebuild kits....are 100% correct and have ALL of the seals....and are dirt cheap at about $20 per caliper. Ray
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> 411/412 All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2020, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB