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Van Tracker: Combination Kill Switch + Tracker + Movement Detect
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jwallis
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Van Tracker: Combination Kill Switch + Tracker + Movement Detect Reply with quote

Yeah it's good and bad to have a tracker thing tied to your battery. I think most people simply aren't going to be charging and then hiding a tracker every few weeks. So with Van Tracker you can go to the mains or your aux battery of course, but of course it draws on your battery. The parasitic draw is around 45-55mA which could be better, could certainly be worse.

I'm really curious for anyone who DOESN'T think they'll buy a Van Tracker, what isn't to your liking? The up-front cost, the monthly cost, you already have one, you don't think it's useful, you're wary of a new product, something else?

I'd greatly appreciate any feedback anyone has...
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 8:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Van Tracker: Combination Kill Switch + Tracker + Movement Detect Reply with quote

andy52 wrote:
I bought a tracker on aliexpress.. worked fine, quite simple.. but battery lasts a few days.. Sad must be the settings, because the item info shows 80 days!!! but i deactivated almost everything and still, battery dies in 3 days or so

https://es.aliexpress.com/item/32960520204.html


That device is 3G ("3rd Generation" BTW). There are still 2G and 3G trackers being sold. In the USA, 2G is almost completely shut down, and 3G and CDMA will be sunsetting in the next 12-24 months. Do not buy any 2G or 3G device if you live in the USA. Along with Van Tracker, there are lots of 4G LTE tracker options on the market.

https://www.affirmednetworks.com/3g-riding-into-the-sunset/
https://www.lightreading.com/5g/goodbye-3g-heres-w...-id/763362
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 9:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Van Tracker: Combination Kill Switch + Tracker + Movement Detect Reply with quote

I donít know how anyone thinks itís a good idea to service this market, but Iím glad that there are folks like you who decide to do it. Seems pretty cool, many thanks for making it available!
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:53 am    Post subject: Re: Van Tracker: Combination Kill Switch + Tracker + Movement Detect Reply with quote

ledogboy wrote:
I donít know how anyone thinks itís a good idea to service this market, but Iím glad that there are folks like you who decide to do it. Seems pretty cool, many thanks for making it available!


Thanks for that, it's a labor of love. I think a lot of products like Van Tracker or UniWerks's 3D printed stuff or maybe even TerraPodz just come from personal projects that get out of hand and you realize you should do something with it. And it ends up kind of like a plastic injection molded part... the first one costs $10,000 and then every subsequent one costs $1.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 10:30 am    Post subject: Re: Van Tracker: Combination Kill Switch + Tracker + Movement Detect Reply with quote

Hi Wallis, your tracker/kill switch seems to be a well thought out, well made device - thanks!

Being Canadian, would I need two different SIM cards, one for Canada and one for the US (assuming the border re-opens in my lifetime)?

What attributes do I need to ask for when sourcing a Canadian SIM card?

Will the kill switch part work without a SIM card installed?

Thanks in advance, Jake
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Van Tracker: Combination Kill Switch + Tracker + Movement Detect Reply with quote

jwallis wrote:
andy52 wrote:
I bought a tracker on aliexpress.. worked fine, quite simple.. but battery lasts a few days.. Sad must be the settings, because the item info shows 80 days!!! but i deactivated almost everything and still, battery dies in 3 days or so

https://es.aliexpress.com/item/32960520204.html


That device is 3G ("3rd Generation" BTW). There are still 2G and 3G trackers being sold. In the USA, 2G is almost completely shut down, and 3G and CDMA will be sunsetting in the next 12-24 months. Do not buy any 2G or 3G device if you live in the USA. Along with Van Tracker, there are lots of 4G LTE tracker options on the market.

https://www.affirmednetworks.com/3g-riding-into-the-sunset/
https://www.lightreading.com/5g/goodbye-3g-heres-w...-id/763362


I live in Spain! haha
so I guess im ok
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Van Tracker: Combination Kill Switch + Tracker + Movement Detect Reply with quote

andy52 wrote:

I live in Spain! haha
so I guess im ok


Looks like it. What's interesting is in some countries, 3G is going away before 2G. 2G was implemented in a lot of devices but 3G never really took off too much, or maybe it just wasn't around very long before 4G appeared.

https://nae.global/en/the-status-of-the-2g-3g-network-sunset/



Jake de Villiers wrote:
Hi Wallis, your tracker/kill switch seems to be a well thought out, well made device - thanks!

Being Canadian, would I need two different SIM cards, one for Canada and one for the US (assuming the border re-opens in my lifetime)?

What attributes do I need to ask for when sourcing a Canadian SIM card?

Will the kill switch part work without a SIM card installed?


Hey Jake,
Connectivity has never been tested in Canada. The SIM comes with the unit and there is a $9/mo subscription. It is a global SIM and connects to AT&T, T-Mobile, supposedly Rogers, and dozens of others around the world, but it hasn't been tested on Rogers. Also, the phone number would be a US phone number, so if you are sending commands (text messages) from a Canadian # to a US # it might get costly for you. We could give it a shot if you're interested.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Van Tracker: Combination Kill Switch + Tracker + Movement Detect Reply with quote

jwallis wrote:
I'm really curious for anyone who DOESN'T think they'll buy a Van Tracker, what isn't to your liking? The up-front cost, the monthly cost, you already have one, you don't think it's useful, you're wary of a new product, something else?

I'd greatly appreciate any feedback anyone has...

Iím in the maybe camp. I think itís hard for me to digest it all. But I have been thinking a tracker makes sense.

I am definitely interested in something.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Van Tracker: Combination Kill Switch + Tracker + Movement Detect Reply with quote

IMHO we on the right coast are almost completely covered with cellular coverage.
No matter where we go we have cell service with minor exceptions.
Great area for a cellular based tracker.

Once you cross the Mississippi and enter the vast prairies coverage begins to get spotty.
Enter into the Rockies and high deserts of the West coverage cannot be counted upon at all.
In These areas you are best served by a satellite tracking service.

Dave
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Van Tracker: Combination Kill Switch + Tracker + Movement Detect Reply with quote

@jwallis www.github.com/jwallis/van-tracker be 404'd? watching the intro vid and saw the OSS comment and got all excited
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Van Tracker: Combination Kill Switch + Tracker + Movement Detect Reply with quote

jwallis wrote:
Yeah it's good and bad to have a tracker thing tied to your battery. I think most people simply aren't going to be charging and then hiding a tracker every few weeks. So with Van Tracker you can go to the mains or your aux battery of course, but of course it draws on your battery. The parasitic draw is around 45-55mA which could be better, could certainly be worse.

I'm really curious for anyone who DOESN'T think they'll buy a Van Tracker, what isn't to your liking? The up-front cost, the monthly cost, you already have one, you don't think it's useful, you're wary of a new product, something else?

I'd greatly appreciate any feedback anyone has...


I've been using the SPOT Trace for four years and it solves the problem of wondering where my van is and if it has moved.

Pros
- Satellite comms so it doesn't need a cell signal
- Works in the US and Canada (being in Seattle my van is regularly in Canada)
- Status can be viewed from any internet enabled device so two owners can track the van via phone, pc, etc.
- Drop-dead simple, esp. when hardwired. Just leave it plugged in and it's always working. Four AAA batteries provide a back-up
- Sends a txt once a day confirming it's status, power source, etc.

Cons
- They've adopted an anti-customer cable TV billing model. Every year they bill for 12 months in advance for about $20 per month and I have to call, wait on hold and have them refill it for $10 per month. Shackles, tar and feathers are too good for the evil person at SPOT who thinks this is a good idea.
- $10 costs more than some other solutions

31 pages of tracker chit chat in this thread. I posted your device here last week.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=568723
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Van Tracker: Combination Kill Switch + Tracker + Movement Detect Reply with quote

vanagonjr wrote:
Iím in the maybe camp. I think itís hard for me to digest it all.


That makes sense, maybe the 2nd video in the playlist was too much, but it's basically everything VT can do. The 3rd and 4th videos are demos and are a little less...
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL8jriUZHZDEcFTrur6iq2xOjVX0ak21vv


jimf909 wrote:


- Satellite comms so it doesn't need a cell signal

31 pages of tracker chit chat in this thread. I posted your device here last week.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=568723


The text every day seems pretty excessive, lol! I asked my testers if 1x/month would be desired and they didn't seem too into it. The battery backup could be done I imagine, and I'd say VT is pretty simple.

I just can't imagine how they can get away with that low of a price for a satellite connection... that would be pretty rad. It has to be the economy of scale. I also think there are some real dubious claims made by a lot of the stuff on Amazon that I'm not ethically willing make. Maybe if my financial life depended on it I'd be more "flexible." I'd have to sell several hundred of these to make to what I'd make in a year in software, and that's clearly not a remote possibility.

Thank you for posting to that thread, I knew there were some bouncing around. My differentiator is supposed to be the kill switch. A tracker is great, and I know people want a kill switch, but I know a lot of people are scared of electricity (and rightly so!), and Van Tracker's installation is quite simple.

charleslabri wrote:
@jwallis www.github.com/jwallis/van-tracker be 404'd? watching the intro vid and saw the OSS comment and got all excited


Well I was afraid people would rip it off, but go for it, I've made the repo public.
www.github.com/jwallis/van-tracker

While we're at it here's the hardware repo containing Cura 3d modeling, Eagle CAD circuit files, custom PCB layout files.
www.github.com/jwallis/van-tracker-hardware

Here's a working simulation of one part of the circuit
https://www.multisim.com/content/HfAD7yogrSYdheV62Lpv2e/van-tracker-stock-kill-switch/open/

Here's a finite state diagram of the system
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


LMK what you think.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Van Tracker: Combination Kill Switch + Tracker + Movement Detect Reply with quote

I love what youre doing here btw. We need more SWE in the van-community to bring these things up to date.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2020 2:53 am    Post subject: Re: Van Tracker: Combination Kill Switch + Tracker + Movement Detect Reply with quote

"Well I was afraid people would rip it off, but go for it, I've made the repo public.
www.github.com/jwallis/van-tracker"

You have copyright on it, you should file a patent on it.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2020 5:14 am    Post subject: Re: Van Tracker: Combination Kill Switch + Tracker + Movement Detect Reply with quote

You will be astounded how much this will add to the cost and offer no protection from those who can take the concept and replicate it for themselves.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2020 8:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Van Tracker: Combination Kill Switch + Tracker + Movement Detect Reply with quote

jwallis wrote:



jimf909 wrote:


- Satellite comms so it doesn't need a cell signal

31 pages of tracker chit chat in this thread. I posted your device here last week.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=568723


The text every day seems pretty excessive, lol! I asked my testers if 1x/month would be desired and they didn't seem too into it. The battery backup could be done I imagine, and I'd say VT is pretty simple.

I just can't imagine how they can get away with that low of a price for a satellite connection... that would be pretty rad. It has to be the economy of scale.


To be clear, I'm not saying the Spot Trace is a reason for me to not buy your product. I agree the kill switch is a differentiator and I've been thinking of adding a somewhat redundant system.

The daily txt is surprisingly not annoying...to me. Everyday at 6:18 pm I get reassurance that it's working. Before I hardwired it I received warning that the batteries were low and then silence which was also reassuring.

As for SPOT, they've been in the EPIRB/PLB business for many years. Offering the SPOT trace is just one more way to monetize their model of satellite based locating devices. Also, they're owned by Globalstar a company that operates the satellites, i.e. that's some multi-national economies of scale. Very Happy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SPOT_Satellite_Messenger

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Globalstar
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2020 12:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Van Tracker: Combination Kill Switch + Tracker + Movement Detect Reply with quote

I remember as a kid all those "get your idea patented for $49.99" ads on TV and when looking them up years later, found they were just design patents which only covered the aesthetic but not the intellectual property. Covering the IP can be done but at a lot higher cost with better lawyers it seems.

It is one of those things that wouldn't be worth the hassle of replicating most likely. There is also a complex backend configuration that is not clear even though all of the software and hardware is open-sourced above. But if anyone wanted to know, I would tell them.

SPOT has 4/5 stars on amazon, but a lot of people complain they bait and switch, raise prices, etc. which I'm not willing to do to make money. I'm interested in transparency, and to that end... very few people are buying Van Tracker which is surprising to me. I'm ok with it not selling, products come to market every day and either don't solve the problem, solve a problem people don't have or don't prioritize, have a flaw, are mis-marketed, are immature, etc.

But even though lots of people have shown strong interest, sales are very low. I'm very interested in concerns people have or how I've missed the mark (maybe I *should* have built an app?), so I will again ask for feedback. The backend is going to be up and running regardless of how many units are sold so it shouldn't dissuade anyone from ordering, but I wanted to be transparent, as well as request feedback / critique.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2020 5:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Van Tracker: Combination Kill Switch + Tracker + Movement Detect Reply with quote

I think you are doing a great thing offering this.
I'm interested in a unit or two but there is some info I haven't found yet.
Whose cell network(s) are you using?
Which version of the 7000 SIM hardware are you using?
If I travel to distant countries will it still work as well?
What happens if YOU fall victim to some virus or something or are suddenly out of the picture?

thanks,
Mark


jwallis wrote:
.....

But even though lots of people have shown strong interest, sales are very low. I'm very interested in concerns people have or how I've missed the mark (maybe I *should* have built an app?), so I will again ask for feedback. The backend is going to be up and running regardless of how many units are sold so it shouldn't dissuade anyone from ordering, but I wanted to be transparent, as well as request feedback / critique.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2020 8:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Van Tracker: Combination Kill Switch + Tracker + Movement Detect Reply with quote

jwallis wrote:

SPOT has 4/5 stars on amazon, but a lot of people complain they bait and switch, raise prices, etc.

But even though lots of people have shown strong interest, sales are very low. I'm very interested in concerns people have or how I've missed the mark (maybe I *should* have built an app?), so I will again ask for feedback. The backend is going to be up and running regardless of how many units are sold so it shouldn't dissuade anyone from ordering, but I wanted to be transparent, as well as request feedback / critique.


SPOT's pricing model is awful.

I think you're on the right track asking for input. The product has also only been out for what, a few weeks? I sometimes keep my eye on a product for months or a year before finally pulling the plug. A theft tracking device is different than some other Vanagon mods but I'm suggesting that if other Vanagon owners are like me there are others out there with your product in mind but waiting to make the final call.

There are a number of vendors in the Vanagon community like you: passionate Vanagon owners with good ideas offering products to the other Vanagon owners. They may have helpful tips on serving this community (the cheapest part is the nut behind the wheel). A few who come to mind are: tencentlife, Rocky Mountain Westy, Christopher Schimke (links to their threads below)...

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=701037
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8355387
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=693443
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PostPosted: Yesterday 8:52 am    Post subject: Re: Van Tracker: Combination Kill Switch + Tracker + Movement Detect Reply with quote

This is awesome. We all should buy this. Iím always saddened when I see the number of stolen vans
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