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Bay IRS into a Split
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CruisinMark
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 4:26 pm    Post subject: Bay IRS into a Split Reply with quote

I am in the process of installing a 1968 Bay IRS rear end into my 1957 Kombi. I will be using 1968 Bay CVs, axles, brakes, spring plates and narrowed trailing arms. I have a 1969 Beetle transmission.

I am doing my utmost to minimize permanent changes to the bus. I had originally intended to make a set of bolt in brackets to facilitate camber adjustment, but in order to get the brackets far enough inboard, I would need to cut the 2 into 1 heater pipe junction above the torsion tube.

How do you properly align the brackets if welding directly onto the torsion tube to ensure correct camber? Please and thank you!
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Busstom
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 8:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Bay IRS into a Split Reply with quote

For one thing, fashion a jig to ensure that the angle of both are identical. You can ballpark them with the control arms installed and the Bus setting at ride height.

Just tack them adequately and then assemble everything. Set your normally loaded Bus (with engine) down and roll it a good distance to settle the wheels, and decide if you're happy with it. Hell, I'd probably be comfortable driving slowly on my street with my tacks, just to make sure it's fully settled. I'd shoot for neutral since the tendency will be to go negative anyway. And since it's your Bus and you're building it for possible reversal, you can set it however you choose.

Yeah, it's a lot of assembly and disassembly, and maybe breaking and rewelding, but you wanna get it right. Besides, it's not like pulling an engine out of a Bug.
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karl h
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 10:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Bay IRS into a Split Reply with quote

in my thread you can see pics how i have done it to my panel. did it to my 21 window too and it worked perfectly. this time i will use modified porsche 944 adjustable springplates, though
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tisius
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 5:32 am    Post subject: Re: Bay IRS into a Split Reply with quote

https://creative-engineering.com/product-category/rear-suspension/irs-kits/
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pyrOman
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 7:20 am    Post subject: Re: Bay IRS into a Split Reply with quote

Did mine just over 10 years ago. For a “test drive” went to the east coast. Put in 8000 miles in 20 days of driving. Still holding strong! I have done some adjusting to get the camber as close to stock looking as possible. Extremely happy with the setup and performance of it!😎

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=283411&highlight=irs
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CruisinMark
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 9:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Bay IRS into a Split Reply with quote

Thank you everyone. My plan is to follow the method used by Low Brau in the following thread, it's just the actual alignment that has me stuck. I have already built the jig to modify the trailing arms and will build something to ensure that the brackets are mounted in the same positions as recommended above.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=528815&highlight=joes+double+door

I have looked at and spoken with the guys from Creative Engineering. I really like their products, but my bus is really dry and I can't bring myself to cut the rear end out of it. Any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated!
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dtadpole
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2020 6:25 am    Post subject: Re: Bay IRS into a Split Reply with quote

Just the information I am needing!! I am about to do the same thing. I have a beetle trans and was contemplating about all of the other options. Thanks Soooo Much!! Very Happy
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brettsvw
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2020 3:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Bay IRS into a Split Reply with quote

my 59 kombi is 68 IRS. Brackets welded under frame horns. Pic shows reinforcement of the frame horns.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


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My 59 kombi build.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=635003&highlight=

My buggy build.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=558601&highlight=

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=289807
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dtadpole
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 12:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Bay IRS into a Split Reply with quote

brettsvw wrote:
my 59 kombi is 68 IRS. Brackets welded under frame horns. Pic shows reinforcement of the frame horns.


Brett if you can remember can you give us some specs of your irs components? Are you running this lowered by chance and what are the specs of the c.v. joints as far as what they originally were for, transmission, wheels, ect..


Also anyone have a source to buy the straight trailing arm pivots from, been looking and only find the weldable ones with one side longer than the other for the beetle pivot bracket?

hope that's not confusing I am trying to get everything together for the conversion and the more information the better for me.
thanks so much!
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charles henson
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 3:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Bay IRS into a Split Reply with quote

we do these type of bolt on irs kits in australia.
You can adjust camber an alignment at a tire shop when fitting new tires.
Im sure someone in the u.s.a. does the same..
https://www.indianautomotive.com.au/collections/su...5198979590


Last edited by charles henson on Tue Aug 18, 2020 1:24 am; edited 2 times in total
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brettsvw
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 8:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Bay IRS into a Split Reply with quote

My bus is lowered.
I cut OG brackets from a super crusty 68 bus. I did not write down any specs.
I used the original torsion tubes from the 59 and 68 for specs.
My trans is a 73 type3 with thing flanges. CVs are late bus, and axles I think are early bay. 68 bay spring plates and torsion bars fit split bus.
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My 59 kombi build.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=635003&highlight=

My buggy build.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=558601&highlight=

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=289807
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dred
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2020 12:34 am    Post subject: Re: Bay IRS into a Split Reply with quote

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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dred
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2020 12:53 am    Post subject: Re: Bay IRS into a Split Reply with quote

I lifted my '67 kombi with the same combination that Brett used. Although I've dropped the trans for improved CV angle, which allows me to use the Type1 nosecone also. I believe my drum-to-drum dim. is 57-1/2 inches.

Type1 transaxle with 100mm flanges

Type2 stock length axles Type4 CV's

Early bay trailing arms and spring plates, split torsions

~1 inch trans/frame horn drop. Custom front mount

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Busstom
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2020 7:02 am    Post subject: Re: Bay IRS into a Split Reply with quote

dred wrote:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

One thing's for sure, this is an elegant solution for beefing up the cradle and hiding/eliminating the bent flanges from errant jacking on almost every Bus out there. I've been contemplating something like this for 20 years or more, but have just never executed. This is the first example I've ever seen of it outside of my imagination. I suspect I'll go thicker, say .188 or a quarter inch, and perhaps wrap up the sides (can't tell if that's eighth inch or thicker). One day.

Nice.
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dred
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2020 5:46 am    Post subject: Re: Bay IRS into a Split Reply with quote

Thanks Busstom, it just worked out that since I lowered the center of the cradle I could remove the bent up lips and then get back to stock profile with the plate I fabbed in. Its 10ga
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brettsvw
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2020 11:31 am    Post subject: Re: Bay IRS into a Split Reply with quote

Hi Dred, Did you weld metal to the outer frames horns where it was removed.
I didn't see it in the last pic.
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My 59 kombi build.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=635003&highlight=

My buggy build.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=558601&highlight=

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=289807
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Busstom
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2020 1:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Bay IRS into a Split Reply with quote

brettsvw wrote:
Hi Dred, Did you weld metal to the outer frames horns where it was removed.
I didn't see it in the last pic.


It doesn't look like that's possible, because the control arms reside in that window cut into the sides of the horns.

Dred, I see more clearly now...I didn't notice the tabs on the ends that break up into the channel of the cradle. Very clean. (And sorry for responding to Bretts question, just stating my observations.) Wink
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CruisinMark
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 9:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Bay IRS into a Split Reply with quote

I am planning on running at stock height or close to it. I have purchased a set of 944 CV joints for their greater articulation (22 degrees versus 17 degrees for T2), but have read several comments regarding CV boots failing when used at stock height on a Split. My CVs came with the stock GKN / Lobro boots crimped to the flanges, which supposedly only last a short time when used in this application.

I understand that some people are using 100mm Golf boots and some people are using offroad style boots with the separate flanges. Does anyone have any feedback on boots that last well when fitted to a stock height Split please?
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realmechanic
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2020 3:59 am    Post subject: Re: Bay IRS into a Split Reply with quote

I used all the parts from a 70 model in my swap and just modified the arms and fabricated my own brackets so I didnt have to cut up anything on my pickup. The brackets slide under the heater tubes, over to the transmission supports.
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realmechanic
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2020 11:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Bay IRS into a Split Reply with quote

After all IRS parts are installed
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