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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22711
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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 Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2020 10:27 pm Post subject: Re: Teenagers see gasoline cars going obsolete by 2015 |
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| Chickensoup wrote: |
| Tram wrote: |
| Chickensoup wrote: |
do you know why we pulled out of the paris agreement???? theres more than whats meets the eye.
north korea also abuses their people and lies to the world about pretty much everything. just like china. alot of asia poses as a threat now. relying on your enimies is a stupid ass idea. you could say making deals with china is like making deals with the devil. your reward may seem great at first, but in the end, you not going to win.
climate change is a whole other topic. i do believe climate change exist. but not to the extent its made out to seem. preserving out earth is something i also agree with.
it isnt out responsibility to piggy back developing countries. not on a level that comes from our taxes, and government, private investors are a different story. the issue doesnt come from countries not having a "fair" chance to develop. these developing countries have their issues, because of themselves. their own actions. if they were good people, then we wouldnt have spoiled punch. there are soooo many other way to help fight pollution problems other than just giving out money here and there willy nilly. we have these issues, becase we have shitty, corupt, and frankly evil people in this world. you dont help evil people out. thats called being pushed around. get pushed around enough and eventually you will fall. |
If we want a habitable planet, playing the blame game ain't gonna cut it. We need to get back to "we are America- we can do ANYTHING". Could you imagine if we had adopted the current attitude during WW2 or the Cold War?
Blaming other countries and being snowflakes isn't going to do shit except guarantee that we'll die blaming someone. |
wait, so whos blaming who now  i didnt say let other countries do whatever the fuck the want and kill us all. so like you said in a way. We ARE america, if you dont change, we are changing it for you. giving money away to an already corrupt country isnt going to make them any less corrupt. ITS GOING to do the opposite. we have alot more in common than you think. its the fine details that can get troublesome.
so in essence, its not, we can do anything. its we WILL do anything. |
Or better yet- WILL we do anything... especially since anyone wanting to do anything gets immediately shot down. 
In the America of the New Deal, the Army Corps of Engineers would have worked with scientists to develop a carbon scrubbing machine by now- but that was before Big Business owned the place.
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Chickensoup
Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2018
Posts: 5368
Location: Good Hope, GA
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| Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2020 11:01 pm Post subject: Re: Teenagers see gasoline cars going obsolete by 2015 |
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yes, amazon is scary. facebook is scary. there have always been scary big business. rockefellar for example. power easily leads to corruption. but that too, is a entirely different topic...
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-'85 c10 5.3 LS, 222 cam, long tubes, x pipe, 3 inch spin tech's
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Hosea 4:6 "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge" |
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EverettB 
Administrator
Joined: April 11, 2000
Posts: 69809
Location: Phoenix Metro
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| Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2020 11:06 pm Post subject: Re: Teenagers see gasoline cars going obsolete by 2015 |
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Moderator note:
I edited out a few blatant political phrases/names, although the last few pages are all borderline.
A reminder that it said this at the start:
| Quote: |
| a third of teens (33 percent) predict the demise of gasoline-powered cars by the year 2015 |
Bolding is mine here as it has been forgotten
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22711
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2020 11:29 pm Post subject: Re: Teenagers see gasoline cars going obsolete by 2015 |
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| EverettB wrote: |
Moderator note:
I edited out a few blatant political phrases/names, although the last few pages are all borderline.
A reminder that it said this at the start:
| Quote: |
| a third of teens (33 percent) predict the demise of gasoline-powered cars by the year 2015 |
Bolding is mine here as it has been forgotten |
Well... this thread started in 2006, and I would say that probably for a third of millennials today... cars ARE obsolete- as are houses. They refuse to own them.
Sometimes I think they are smarter than they are given credit for...
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16863
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2020 12:24 am Post subject: Re: Teenagers see gasoline cars going obsolete by 2015 |
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| Chickensoup wrote: |
climate change is a whole other topic. i do believe climate change exist. but not to the extent its made out to seem. preserving out earth is something i also agree with. |
exactly...like how the ozone layer of the late 80's early 90's was gonna burn us up by the 2000's
it's just another money grab, it's all it is.
once "they" get rid of their 4+ houses, yachts, private jets you may get my attention. until then....
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| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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YDBD
Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2017
Posts: 891
Location: Bavaria, Germany
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| Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2020 2:56 am Post subject: Re: Teenagers see gasoline cars going obsolete by 2015 |
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| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
exactly...like how the ozone layer of the late 80's early 90's was gonna burn us up by the 2000's
it's just another money grab, it's all it is.
. |
https://www.pbs.org/video/why-dont-we-hear-about-the-ozone-hole-anymore-goapaj/
Success! and many corporations see the advantage of electric cars and are dumping a lot of R&D and creating jobs that didn't exist 10 years ago.
I won't give up my dune buggy, but trading in my 2011 Touareg for an e car is not efficient-it really isn't responsible in an environmental sense.
As far as a 1/3 of teenagers say this is positive, they see other means of getting around. Neither of my two kids want a car (except the dune buggy) or even get a license. My daughter will probably get her license next summer and she's 19. But doesn't want a car due to parking problems on campus.
So I also did a lot of RC about 6 years ago, only had one Nitro car everything else was electric. The RC electric advances were huge from 2010-2014. Got rid of the nitro as it was unreliable compared to the new brushless motors and LiPo batteries. I didn't get into flying but most of the planes and helicopters and ALL of the four propeller drones are electric. A giant shift from 10 years ago.
Obsolete is a strong word that seems to hit our passion nerve and that's hard for many of us to let go or to think it won't EVER be useful. But think of it as a CRT vs. LED TV...CRTs are obsolete but they are still out there and working.
Hope everyone had a great Thanksgiving and stays healthy for the Holiday Season!
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'67 bug
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oprn
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 12710
Location: Western Canada
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| Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2020 5:02 am Post subject: Re: Teenagers see gasoline cars going obsolete by 2015 |
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No there are really few new jobs being created moving to electric. ICE R&D is shedding jobs and E cars are picking up jobs so overall it's pretty much a wash.
I too have been into RC for over 25 years and have experienced the shift to electric. I am now shifting back to engines because as my batteries age I am finding out that all is not bright and rosy. Every year now at least 1/2 of my battery packs are failing and need replacing and the prices are climbing not dropping like they were 5 years ago. Battery maintenance has become a burden with maintaining storage voltages, charging/discharging rates and temperatures, using fire proof storage/transportation containers and co-ordinating the charging with weather systems and time available to fly.
Nope, going back to simple fuel powered engines where you oil it up after the flight and it's good to go again whether next time is tomorrow or next year. Glow fuel keeps for several years in a cool dark place and if you are running gas it is a buck a liter for fresh stuff all over town.
Oh and the sound of a nicely tuned 4 stroke in the air is unbeatable! I so-o missed that! |
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oprn
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 12710
Location: Western Canada
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| Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2020 5:43 am Post subject: Re: Teenagers see gasoline cars going obsolete by 2015 |
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| ubercrap wrote: |
| I think you would need low speed, lightweight powered vehicles of some sort for the city, but only when necessary. Something like a NEV. Small delivery trucks or vans for the last mile. Streets having about a 15mph speed limit. You'd need to walk or bicycle, or take streetcars or subways, etc...if able. Maybe a small motorcycle or scooter. High speed rail for city-to-city travel. Any areas not suitable would need to be converted or abandoned. Basically no suburbs as we know them since WWII. Cars OK for the countryside, but have to be parked at the edge of a city if coming in. Historical vehicles allowed to transit through the city on a limited basis to be driven in the countryside. |
I am picking this post to respond to because it is written from an urban bubble perspective only. Having live my life 1/2 in that environment and the last 1/2 in a rural setting I agree with some of it but I see some serious cracks in this reasoning too.
First off, yes the use of cars has become far too frivolous and irresponsible to the environment. From the frequency of use to the number of passengers involved to the size and fuel consumption these cars are at. Yes mass public transportation and walkable environments are a big part of the solution. E cars - well maybe but remember that for every ounce of emissions saved in the city, an ounce and a half are transferred to the countryside when transportation of power losses are taken into the equation. So there may be a net loss there.
Now to my real point, this gutting of the countryside of people and concentration of people in crowded cities has been going on for generations. There are two real consequences that have not been solved and are evident right now. First off is disease. Whenever you get a mass concentration of living things the risk of disease and it's consequences and control challenges goes up exponentially. Look at history and look at where we are right now! Enough said, I rest my case...
Secondly and not quite so easily seen for you city folks is a degrading of the Stuart-ship of the earth. The family farmer was for the most part the best Stuart of the land because he not only saw the need to preserve it for meeting his own needs in his lifetime but preserving/conserving it for his children and his grand children too. The family farmer is a rapidly dying breed, being replaced by corporate entities who are completely and totally fixated on short term profits and company stock market values. The CEOs for the most part do not live on or have any connection to the land nor are they in thier positions of power for more than a handful of years at best. In fact many of these new farming corporations are offshore from countries that have exhausted thier present farm land. To expect them to operate in an environmentally sustainable way is to put one's head in the proverbial sand!
Again just look at the environmental mess left by many many corporations in the past to see what kind of environmental conscience these entities have and explain to me again how this is a good idea!
There, have I left you with food for thought? I hope so...
Last edited by oprn on Mon Nov 30, 2020 6:22 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Chickensoup
Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2018
Posts: 5368
Location: Good Hope, GA
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| Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2020 5:56 am Post subject: Re: Teenagers see gasoline cars going obsolete by 2015 |
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| oprn wrote: |
No there are really few new jobs being created moving to electric. ICE R&D is shedding jobs and E cars are picking up jobs so overall it's pretty much a wash.
I too have been into RC for over 25 years and have experienced the shift to electric. I am now shifting back to engines because as my batteries age I am finding out that all is not bright and rosy. Every year now at least 1/2 of my battery packs are failing and need replacing and the prices are climbing not dropping like they were 5 years ago. Battery maintenance has become a burden with maintaining storage voltages, charging/discharging rates and temperatures, using fire proof storage/transportation containers and co-ordinating the charging with weather systems and time available to fly.
Nope, going back to simple fuel powered engines where you oil it up after the flight and it's good to go again whether next time is tomorrow or next year. Glow fuel keeps for several years in a cool dark place and if you are running gas it is a buck a liter for fresh stuff all over town.
Oh and the sound of a nicely tuned 4 stroke in the air is unbeatable! I so-o missed that! |
me too. ive been shifting into glow plug engines. i will still keep my hpi blitz flux mainly because of how much money ive out into it, and i admit its not too shabby of an rc. i have an OS max fp60 i rebuilt that going into my 1/5 scale Cessna im building for an fpv set up. the electric stuff is cool because it reliable, but the wait time between charging batteries just isnt worth it fore me.
_________________
-'85 c10 5.3 LS, 222 cam, long tubes, x pipe, 3 inch spin tech's
-'05 B5.5 TDI Wagon 17in sport rims ;EGR + BSM + ASV Delete, Stage-2 Tune, straight pipe
'65 Tourist Delivery Build
'66 RIP
'69 RIP
Hosea 4:6 "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge" |
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oprn
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 12710
Location: Western Canada
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| Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2020 6:16 am Post subject: Re: Teenagers see gasoline cars going obsolete by 2015 |
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| Warning: piston engines and photo equipment are not the most compatible because of vibration effecting the photo quality. I hate to say it but electric is better there. |
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Zundfolge1432
Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2004
Posts: 12467
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| Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2020 6:20 am Post subject: Re: Teenagers see gasoline cars going obsolete by 2015 |
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“I’m good enough, I’m smart enough and dog gone it people like me”.
Stuart Smalley lives 😀 |
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oprn
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 12710
Location: Western Canada
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| Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2020 6:27 am Post subject: Re: Teenagers see gasoline cars going obsolete by 2015 |
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Ok, you got me, steward is the word I wanted! Darn auto correct and my dependence on it! 
shuv ovur mark tucker im cumin ta joinya! |
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Zundfolge1432
Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2004
Posts: 12467
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| Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2020 6:38 am Post subject: Re: Teenagers see gasoline cars going obsolete by 2015 |
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| BTDT now I gotta proof read everything. 😀 |
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oprn
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 12710
Location: Western Canada
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| Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2020 6:42 am Post subject: Re: Teenagers see gasoline cars going obsolete by 2015 |
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| Zundfolge1432 wrote: |
| BTDT now I gotta proof read everything. 😀 |
Yup!!!  |
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Chickensoup
Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2018
Posts: 5368
Location: Good Hope, GA
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| Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2020 6:45 am Post subject: Re: Teenagers see gasoline cars going obsolete by 2015 |
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| oprn wrote: |
| Warning: piston engines and photo equipment are not the most compatible because of vibration effecting the photo quality. I hate to say it but electric is better there. |
agreed. although go pros and drone cameras are getting much better with image stabilization. i think its part of the reason so many people mount their cameras on the rear of the plane, or the belly, and not above the wings or the nose. electrics also have made it to the edge of space and back sooo...
_________________
-'85 c10 5.3 LS, 222 cam, long tubes, x pipe, 3 inch spin tech's
-'05 B5.5 TDI Wagon 17in sport rims ;EGR + BSM + ASV Delete, Stage-2 Tune, straight pipe
'65 Tourist Delivery Build
'66 RIP
'69 RIP
Hosea 4:6 "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge" |
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ubercrap
Samba Moderator
Joined: July 01, 2004
Posts: 1060
Location: Ridley Park, PA
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| Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2020 3:57 pm Post subject: Re: Teenagers see gasoline cars going obsolete by 2015 |
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| oprn wrote: |
| ubercrap wrote: |
| I think you would need low speed, lightweight powered vehicles of some sort for the city, but only when necessary. Something like a NEV. Small delivery trucks or vans for the last mile. Streets having about a 15mph speed limit. You'd need to walk or bicycle, or take streetcars or subways, etc...if able. Maybe a small motorcycle or scooter. High speed rail for city-to-city travel. Any areas not suitable would need to be converted or abandoned. Basically no suburbs as we know them since WWII. Cars OK for the countryside, but have to be parked at the edge of a city if coming in. Historical vehicles allowed to transit through the city on a limited basis to be driven in the countryside. |
I am picking this post to respond to because it is written from an urban bubble perspective only. Having live my life 1/2 in that environment and the last 1/2 in a rural setting I agree with some of it but I see some serious cracks in this reasoning too.
First off, yes the use of cars has become far too frivolous and irresponsible to the environment. From the frequency of use to the number of passengers involved to the size and fuel consumption these cars are at. Yes mass public transportation and walkable environments are a big part of the solution. E cars - well maybe but remember that for every ounce of emissions saved in the city, an ounce and a half are transferred to the countryside when transportation of power losses are taken into the equation. So there may be a net loss there.
Now to my real point, this gutting of the countryside of people and concentration of people in crowded cities has been going on for generations. There are two real consequences that have not been solved and are evident right now. First off is disease. Whenever you get a mass concentration of living things the risk of disease and it's consequences and control challenges goes up exponentially. Look at history and look at where we are right now! Enough said, I rest my case...
Secondly and not quite so easily seen for you city folks is a degrading of the Stuart-ship of the earth. The family farmer was for the most part the best Stuart of the land because he not only saw the need to preserve it for meeting his own needs in his lifetime but preserving/conserving it for his children and his grand children too. The family farmer is a rapidly dying breed, being replaced by corporate entities who are completely and totally fixated on short term profits and company stock market values. The CEOs for the most part do not live on or have any connection to the land nor are they in thier positions of power for more than a handful of years at best. In fact many of these new farming corporations are offshore from countries that have exhausted thier present farm land. To expect them to operate in an environmentally sustainable way is to put one's head in the proverbial sand!
Again just look at the environmental mess left by many many corporations in the past to see what kind of environmental conscience these entities have and explain to me again how this is a good idea!
There, have I left you with food for thought? I hope so... |
Definitely, but maybe we're closer together than you think! I grew up in the country, but have also lived in the city, various types of suburbs and a small town in the Midwest, Southeast and Northeast USA. I also have personal experience with big corporate agribusiness moving into an area and basically wrecking a lot of things! I think that having the city be a real city and the country being the real country is ideal. Now, yes, the pandemic has thrown a monkey wrench into things. But, eventually, this will pass and we'll have the rest of humanity still ahead of us. Certainly it's caused me to question what to do with myself and family. In a bizarre sequence of events, I found myself actually working remotely at the beginning of the year, months before the pandemic got serious. Now, I could live almost anywhere...but then what's best? I had never actually chosen before, it was always whatever was available for work, etc... One thing that really struck me was when I went to Germany to visit a counterpart facility for work and noticed that there was a mid-rise building, then the city just ended. It occurred to me that this kind of setup could really have the best of both worlds. And I was trying to negotiate a move there, but it got complicated, I may try again. In the meantime, I'm at least living in a Victorian suburb of Philadelphia, which is nice- I sold my commuter car. I don't miss driving to work for even one second. We can walk to all sorts of stuff if we want to, and we can take the train into the city, a station is only a block away. To have something to do during the pandemic, I did start working on my half finished VW projects again for some reason. My last car hurrah, I guess.
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22711
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2020 4:48 pm Post subject: Re: Teenagers see gasoline cars going obsolete by 2015 |
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Very interesting read, and very very true. This is why we need to stay innovative, and that dovetails nicely into what we are discussing here- developing new technology rather than relying on the old.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/11/america-failed-covid-economys-ok-why/617223/
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Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
| Bryan67 wrote: |
| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
To best contact me, please use the EMAIL function in my profile |
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Chickensoup
Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2018
Posts: 5368
Location: Good Hope, GA
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| Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2020 4:51 pm Post subject: Re: Teenagers see gasoline cars going obsolete by 2015 |
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Oh dont get me started on mosaic mines.
_________________
-'85 c10 5.3 LS, 222 cam, long tubes, x pipe, 3 inch spin tech's
-'05 B5.5 TDI Wagon 17in sport rims ;EGR + BSM + ASV Delete, Stage-2 Tune, straight pipe
'65 Tourist Delivery Build
'66 RIP
'69 RIP
Hosea 4:6 "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge" |
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KTPhil
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 34003
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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| Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2020 4:54 pm Post subject: Re: Teenagers see gasoline cars going obsolete by 2015 |
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| Tram wrote: |
| EverettB wrote: |
Moderator note:
I edited out a few blatant political phrases/names, although the last few pages are all borderline.
A reminder that it said this at the start:
| Quote: |
| a third of teens (33 percent) predict the demise of gasoline-powered cars by the year 2015 |
Bolding is mine here as it has been forgotten |
Well... this thread started in 2006, and I would say that probably for a third of millennials today... cars ARE obsolete- as are houses. They refuse to own them.
Sometimes I think they are smarter than they are given credit for... |
On the other hand, knowing what I know now, back in 2006 I would have predicted the demise of millennial by 2015... |
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finster
Samba Member
Joined: May 26, 2012
Posts: 7935
Location: north o' the border
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| Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2020 7:20 am Post subject: Re: Teenagers see gasoline cars going obsolete by 2015 |
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saw this today, renewable fuel for our cars at todays prices....hmm that will be like the nuclear future's promise of energy so bountiful and cheap it wont be worth charging for it....
https://uk.yahoo.com/news/porsche-reveals-climate-neutral-synthetic-173116608.html
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