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ClassicCamper
Samba Member
Joined: December 17, 2002
Posts: 679
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 Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2020 7:53 pm Post subject: Rear Shocks |
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Looking for links/ recommendations for rear shocks for my 1973 Variant. Looking for the softest ride possible without being bouncy/sloppy.
Thanks
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1973 412 Wagon
1976 Westy
1978 SB Vert |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21520
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2020 9:49 pm Post subject: Re: Rear Shocks |
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| ClassicCamper wrote: |
Looking for links/ recommendations for rear shocks for my 1973 Variant. Looking for the softest ride possible without being bouncy/sloppy.
Thanks |
Mmmmm. Tough one.
So the ONLY shock out there that is actually a factory rated valving and remember that the 411 and 412 variant had gas shocks in the rear)....is the KYB gas-a-just KG 5410.
The original part number was KG5531. But...that being long gone the KG 5410 is 100% identical save for a narrower bottom eye bushing...which can be fixed with spacers.
I have run several sets. They are actually very, very close to stock. The stock shocks...oil or gas...were STIFF. Not harsh...because the rear leverage was huge.
Typically back in the day....all of the Gabriel and other brands...were actually "bouncy"...excessively soft...because you could not get gas shocks....to fit the 411/412 in aftermarket gas shocks except for KYB. All they had were oil shocks. All too soft.
But...that being said the few times I was able to get factory 411/412 rear oil shocks for a sedan to use on a variant...they were "passable"...because they were damn stiff for oil shocks.
So....where I would start looking...is for "oil shocks" for a Ford Econoline 1/2 ton FRONT end.....which is what the KYB 5410 gas-a-just shocks were from....and those were identical in every way to the rear variant shocks...valving, length, diameter...everything but the lower bushing.
Warning...when looking at "alternate" shocks for the 411/412 rear suspension...you MUST be careful of the total extended stroke length. Unlike many vehicles....the shock rod IS the stroke limiter.
So if you get one that has a much longer stroke than the stock shock.....when you lift the car off the ground....it will allow the trailing arm to over extend...and it will BEND the shock. It will leak oil...nd will not allow you to remove it without cutting it off. Ask me how I know.... 
Why would this be a problem?....because....if you start looking at the front end shocks for an E-150 Ford 1/2 ton in say....Rockauto.....you will find a whole slew of shocks. They made the E-150 for like 25 years. Some of them are spot on. ...some are not....because it did not matter on the E-150 if you had a little extra stroke. It was a double A-arm suspension.
So...the specs for the KYB KG-5410 are a good starting place to compare with.
https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=503744&jsn=721
Extended Length (in) 14.29
Compressed Length (in) 9.69
Stroke Length (in) 4.61
Dust Cover Included Yes
Rebound Stop Yes
Compressed Bump Stop No
Upper Mount Type S1
Lower Mount Type E2(12.8x38)
Here is a KYB Excel G version of the shock...."Low pressure" gas/oil...compared to the high pressure of the KYB gas-a-just (The KG5410)
https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=503432&cc=1110317&jsn=895
Extended Length (in) 14.65
Compressed Length (in) 9.45
Stroke Length (in) 5.2
Dust Cover Included Yes
Rebound Stop Yes
Compressed Bump Stop No
Upper Mount Type S1
Lower Mount Type E2(12.8x38)
The KYB 344069. You still need to shim the lower eyes on each side for eather of these shocks...but they are the correct length, size and valving....but I have no idea what the "character of the Excel- G will be like on the 411/412 rear. The yare the go to shock on the front for the Audi strut conversion....just never tried them on the rear.
There are lot of choices here
https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/ford,1978,e-15...orber,7556
....even more in other years of the E-150 front shocks...just mind the size.
And...I have not even listed any n the heavy duty. Mind you...my 412 BROKE both the Rancho RS5000 and RS9000 shocks they list here. Just too much leverage for the adjustable shock.
So let us know what you try. Ray |
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ubercrap
Samba Moderator
Joined: July 01, 2004
Posts: 1060
Location: Ridley Park, PA
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| Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2020 9:55 am Post subject: Re: Rear Shocks |
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It seems Bilstein has recently made a run of front strut inserts and rear shocks for 411/412 if you have the money, they are pricey! I think they are slightly sport oriented, though. I've found a place in the UK that is selling them, they're offering them on ebay as well if you search (keep in mind the pictures look to be generic placeholders).
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'74 412 wagon
(2) '74 412 2dr. sedan
'73 412 2dr. sedan |
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ClassicCamper
Samba Member
Joined: December 17, 2002
Posts: 679
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| Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2020 10:59 am Post subject: Re: Rear Shocks |
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This is brilliant. Thanks.
I’m running the Econoline 3/4 ton in the rear and it‘s way too stiff for a car that had such groundbreaking (at the time) suspension upgrades for a VW. The car was built to steer and handle way better than any other VW‘s at the time.
I‘m not doing it any justice IMHO using these 3/4 tons. If I had some bags of cement in the back, maybe. I simply dont like the ride. It doesn’t do the car justice.
I have a good pal offering me BOGE 411 513 031 shocks. Any opinions/feedback on these? If not, I may go to the Econoline 1/2 tons.
_________________
1973 412 Wagon
1976 Westy
1978 SB Vert |
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Pepperbilly
Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2017
Posts: 977
Location: Seattle, Wa
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| Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2020 11:01 am Post subject: Re: Rear Shocks |
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Hey guys,
This is all good info! My chassis has 126,000 total miles. The front struts were replaced once but the rear shocks are still stock originals. I am just gonna leave things alone and see how it drives when that time comes. It’s all easy to replace later if need be.
Bill |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21520
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2020 2:11 pm Post subject: Re: Rear Shocks |
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| ClassicCamper wrote: |
This is brilliant. Thanks.
I’m running the Econoline 3/4 ton in the rear and it‘s way too stiff for a car that had such groundbreaking (at the time) suspension upgrades for a VW. The car was built to steer and handle way better than any other VW‘s at the time.
I‘m not doing it any justice IMHO using these 3/4 tons. If I had some bags of cement in the back, maybe. I simply dont like the ride. It doesn’t do the car justice.
I have a good pal offering me BOGE 411 513 031 shocks. Any opinions/feedback on these? If not, I may go to the Econoline 1/2 tons. |
The 1/2 ton units are the ones that are exact to the KYB part number that was spec'd for our cars. I have always had good luck with them even on sedans.
The Excel G version....low pressure gas .....may be interesting in the 3/4 ton version
The Boge shocks are typically straight oil.....and if they are a 411 part number should ride nicely if your springs are in good shape. I will have to check my part books to see which shock that is. The stock oil shocks are some of the heaviest valved oil shocks I have ever seen......but these cars need it. Ray |
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