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Advice needed on vehicle history.
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Finzdubz
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2020 3:49 am    Post subject: Advice needed on vehicle history. Reply with quote

Hello, this is my first post. I purchased an imported Baywindow a few months ago. I'm currently striping it all down to be resprayed but have found some discrepancies. I have done research on it but I am still in the dark.

So behind the drivers seat is an aftermarket vin plate. This plate matches the logbook and that stamped into the engine bay (the plate in the engine bay is missing).

Alongside the Vin plate, behind the seat, there is an code plate screwed in. According to the data on the mcode plate, the bus was originally blue. This makes no sense as inside the panels its green.

Now, I have found another mcode plate behind the dash. according to this plate, my bus was originally a green westy. The green makes sense as it does look as if it was originally green. However, there is no pop top. The m code decoder has given me a chassis number that doesn't match up with the vin number.

My theory is that the bus was a westy but the roof has been removed and replaced with a tin top. The roof, underneath the hand paint appears to be yellow on the outside but green inside?

I know everyone will say its my own fault for not checking, and it is. However, I already have it so not much can be done. My aim is to restore it as a westy based on the mcode plate.

Bus:
orange/white handpaint
Vin in engine bay 2192121911
m code plate vin (behind seat) : 2372117299
m code behind dash vin:2382124996

cheers,
finley

Edit: Found the mcode plate under the dash. Says it’s a westy. Original paint behind panels confirms this. Removed the headliner and seen the welds. It’s had a tin top roof fitted and the floor of the engine bay changed I presume. Vin in engine compartment suggests it is a 79 panel van. But it was actually a 78 westy. I would like to restore it back to a westy my only concern being that obviously the vin suggests that it is not a westy but the m code plate says otherwise. Is it possible to get a new bit stamped to match the mcode plate or is that something that’s not possible?

It doesn’t really bother me as I know the bus has bound to have repairs but I’m just thinking if the serial number states it is a westy it will look better should I come to sell ?


Last edited by Finzdubz on Mon Dec 14, 2020 3:47 am; edited 1 time in total
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Abscate Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2020 5:58 am    Post subject: Re: Advice needed on vehicle history. Reply with quote

You need a solicitor first. You might not even own this vehicle, so don’t put money into it yet. The Blake who sold it to you might be in a world of trouble
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pioneer1
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2020 6:37 am    Post subject: Re: Advice needed on vehicle history. Reply with quote

Sounds more like someone switched the mplate and vin plate belonging to a different bus
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JaimeH Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2020 6:48 am    Post subject: Re: Advice needed on vehicle history. Reply with quote

You have quite a mystery. Some pictures might help us narrow it down for you. There's a few more places to look for a VIN. Is there a plate on the dashboard or a sticker in the door jamb?

You said imported bus. What do you mean by that?
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deepcflea
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2020 7:30 am    Post subject: Re: Advice needed on vehicle history. Reply with quote

Definitely some shenanigans going on here. IMHO... if someone did manipulate the M-code/VIN plates, the one they might not have thought of to manipulate cause it is somewhat out of sight, would be the one under the dash. Post pics of all the M-code plates and someone smarter than me here may be able to tell you what to check for as far as M-code options and do some deductive reasoning on which one "is" correct based on what the bus has installed. Also, unless someone did a complete teardown and repaint, there has to be some evidence of the original paint color somewhere.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2020 7:52 am    Post subject: Re: Advice needed on vehicle history. Reply with quote

deepcflea wrote:
Definitely some shenanigans going on here. IMHO... if someone did manipulate the M-code/VIN plates, the one they might not have thought of to manipulate cause it is somewhat out of sight, would be the one under the dash. Post pics of all the M-code plates and someone smarter than me here may be able to tell you what to check for as far as M-code options and do some deductive reasoning on which one "is" correct based on what the bus has installed. Also, unless someone did a complete teardown and repaint, there has to be some evidence of the original paint color somewhere.


That's how they found the Pulp Fiction car after it was stolen. They forgot to strip one of the hidden VINs.
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HoboBus
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2020 8:09 am    Post subject: Re: Advice needed on vehicle history. Reply with quote

Do you have proper paperwork to actually be able to register and drive this bus (using whichever VIN you have) in your country? That's the big question.

Otherwise, it's all just a fun story.

Sounds like you've got a Franken-bus. Built from who knows how many parts busses.

I believe 3rd VIN digit is the year, so you've got different years.

Good luck,
Hobo
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2020 8:24 am    Post subject: Re: Advice needed on vehicle history. Reply with quote

What kind of engine do you have and what is the engine code?
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2020 9:19 am    Post subject: Re: Advice needed on vehicle history. Reply with quote

If you have a 1971 or earlier this should be the tag and vin stamp arrangement you have. There will likely also be a vin on the top of the dash, and a M-code under the dash on the air box tubes.

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mikedjames
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2020 9:53 am    Post subject: Re: Advice needed on vehicle history. Reply with quote

Somebody has welded bits of two buses together.

There is a rolling 40 year old historic vehicle no MOT inspection/ zero road tax rule in the UK.
So for a time from when the rule was introduced, up until 40 years after 1979, it was attractive to make a bus seem older than it really was.
So the aim of these people was that the earlier VIN plate presented on the ownership documentation would match the stamped one in the engine bay which is what it seems our inspectors checked.

Now that 2019 has passed, there is now no point in doing this with any Bay Window, as all of them can be registered as historic in the UK and pay no road tax and require no MOT inspection.

In general, provided the VIN in the engine bay matches the V5, I dont think anybody in officialdom really cares any more. Nobody checks engine numbers. If you never have an MOT, then nobody will look at all.
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alman72
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2020 11:30 am    Post subject: Re: Advice needed on vehicle history. Reply with quote

i thought there were tintop westies, meaning no roof hole...
another place to look is the sticker on the door jamb of drivers door. Prob removed, but maybe just painted over.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2020 2:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Advice needed on vehicle history. Reply with quote

If you need any advice from guys here in the UK, have a wander over to www.thelatebay.com.

The guys here on the samba are great, 100%, there are guys on TLB local who may be able to give you a second opinion.

Between the two forums, there is a wealth of knowledge and expertise in abundence!
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Finzdubz
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2020 3:54 am    Post subject: Re: Advice needed on vehicle history. Reply with quote

Bus has v5 , tax and insurance. This is under the stamped vin in the engine bay as apposed to the actual one. I’m wondering if there is a way to actually use the original one as it was actually a pop top westy which I would like to restore it back to.

I imagine it’s probably not possible. I don’t intend to sell for a while but I want to make it back into a westfalia. I also imagine Down the line, when it comes to selling the bus. The difference in price wouldn’t be that affected ?

A 40 year old bus is bound to have some repairs.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2020 7:39 am    Post subject: Re: Advice needed on vehicle history. Reply with quote

You are good to go. The stamped VIN is the one that can't be changed so if that's on the paperwork it's good

Don't worry about originality and all that crap , some people live to tell you your ruining the value for something out of spite.

There is always a good market for a reasonably kitted Westy, original or conversion.
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Finzdubz
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2020 10:08 am    Post subject: Re: Advice needed on vehicle history. Reply with quote

Abscate wrote:
You are good to go. The stamped VIN is the one that can't be changed so if that's on the paperwork it's good

Don't worry about originality and all that crap , some people live to tell you your ruining the value for something out of spite.

There is always a good market for a reasonably kitted Westy, original or conversion.


I thought as much. I shall restore her to her former glory. For the paper work I shall just print off the mcode results from the original plate. Now time to get her welded, painted and get the pop top and interior back.

Thank you all for your help and advice!
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