Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts New!  See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
I didn't call 811, and then hit a gas line!
Page: Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Forum Index -> Off Topic Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
[email protected]
Samba Peckerhead


Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 13753
Location: sticksville, ct.
skills@eurocarsplus is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 10:36 am    Post subject: Re: I didn't call 811, and then hit a gas line! Reply with quote

Zundfolge1432 wrote:
I detect a note of hostility towards utility companies in general.


they or the local ZEO has to sign off on this. when we built, i literally bought 1 mile+ of conduit (4 runs 1/4 mile each) for our utilities. not only did the ZEO have to come and check it out, but so did CL&P, AT&T, and Comcast.

it's buried 4' below grade and 2' above that i had to lay out "CAUTION UNDERGROUND UTLITIES" tape the whole run, and tie it off to the handholes and uprights that swept out of the ground.

i don't know of ANY town ordinance that would make you ask to use a rototiller for a garden, let alone shovel any dirt from your property.

the CBYD guys don't have a minimum depth posted before you have to call...to cover their asses.

i would argue your next step was rototill for a garden, and see what they say. i looked real quick at CBYD and saw no mention of tilling. i mean, a leaf blower would have exposed that pipe...that's bullshit

now, if it was a crap repair from the street to your house, i would find who did it, and who signed off on it.
_________________
gprudenciop wrote:

my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese.......
[email protected] wrote:
most VW enthusiasts are stuck in 80's price land.

Jake Raby wrote:
Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public.

Brian wrote:
Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
74 Thing
Samba Member


Joined: September 02, 2004
Posts: 5964

74 Thing is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 10:53 am    Post subject: Re: I didn't call 811, and then hit a gas line! Reply with quote

1500 for labor overheads- f that
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
OTO X58
Samba Member


Joined: March 27, 2004
Posts: 3033
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
OTO X58 is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 12:19 pm    Post subject: Re: I didn't call 811, and then hit a gas line! Reply with quote

Our utilities are supposed to be 18 inches under ground, and the trench filled with sand above the pipe, to act as a warning to anyone digging.

That pipe is before my meter, about 100 feet from the road, right before a Tee that goes to my house and my neighbor's house.

That pipe is plastic, not copper. And their repair was to just push a coupler over the pipe, similar to a push-to-connect fitting on a water line to an ice maker. That's one reason I am surprised it cost so much. It took like 20 minutes.

There's definitely erosion in that area, so it may have been installed properly like 50 years ago in the 1970s. I don't really blame PG&E for the depth of the line. But I also do think that they should probably inspect these older utilities with a meter to gauge the depth. Especially with all the fires and deaths across California that they've been found guilty of, due to lack of maintenance.

Here's my issue. I make a mistake and I own that. I should have called the number, and I will pay the bill for the damage and emergency personnel cost that I caused. BUT, I feel like they're padding the bill pretty heavily. And I wish they would take into account that I'm just a guy with a shovel barely digging deep at all, not a contractor with an excavator. I hope they'll be reasonable on the phone and give me a break, and I will fight for that.. But if not, then I'll ultimately pay the bill.

I also feel like they now know that one of their gas lines in my yard is not only past its service life (by their own admission), but it also only 6" deep. They know that now, and I want them to come fix that. I wish they had checked on this at some time in the past because then maybe I wouldn't have had this incident happen, but in the end it was my fault for being ignorant of the law that requires me to call 811.
_________________
-Thomas

RIP HBB 10.10.84 - 12.25.09
Autocross 1958 Rag Build - Subaru Swap!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Instagram Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Abscate Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 16447
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
Abscate is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 6:01 pm    Post subject: Re: I didn't call 811, and then hit a gas line! Reply with quote

Homeowners should cover some of that loss after your deductible.

I think you will win this one successfully without a lawyer if you call them up,and talk like an adult.
_________________
.ssS!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
67 Florida Deluxe
Samba Purist


Joined: June 21, 2005
Posts: 7828
Location: Gainesville and Tampa, Florida
67 Florida Deluxe is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 8:29 pm    Post subject: Re: I didn't call 811, and then hit a gas line! Reply with quote

^^^ I agree. Clearly, you're accepting responsibility but the bill is outrageous, especially when you consider the mitigating factors. Hopefully, you can find someone in the utility company chain of command that will be reasonable. I would think a grand would be appropriate, especially given the actual repair that was done. That bill padded like a government contract! Good luck, I hope you find a reasonable ear.
_________________
-Kent
OG member of the '67 Posse
A few of my toys, past and present
'56 Oval, '66 KG Conv't, '67 21-Window, '67 Bug, '79 SuperVert, '55 Pre-A Continental
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Instagram Gallery Classifieds Feedback
volksaddict
Samba Member


Joined: August 19, 2003
Posts: 1702

volksaddict is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 8:51 pm    Post subject: Re: I didn't call 811, and then hit a gas line! Reply with quote

Very Happy tell em to eat a bagful of dicks Laughing
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
hitest
Samba Member


Joined: September 30, 2008
Posts: 10009
Location: Prime Meridian, ID
hitest is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 9:55 pm    Post subject: Re: I didn't call 811, and then hit a gas line! Reply with quote

Next time throw a few old bones and Native American artifacts in the hole and ask PG&E why THEY dug their line through there... Shocked
_________________
EverettB wrote:

I wonder what the nut looks like.



'62 L390 151, '62 L469 117, '63 L380 113, '65 L512 265, '65 L31 SO-42, '66 L360 251, '68 L30k 141, '71 L12 113, '74 ORG 181

FU#5
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Abscate Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 16447
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
Abscate is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2020 4:13 am    Post subject: Re: I didn't call 811, and then hit a gas line! Reply with quote

hitest wrote:
Next time throw a few old bones and Native American artifacts in the hole and ask PG&E why THEY dug their line through there... Shocked


I’ve got spotted owl bones that can help make it a media event, and some piping plover nests to put up nearby
_________________
.ssS!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
finster
Samba Member


Joined: May 26, 2012
Posts: 3263
Location: north o' the border
finster is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2020 6:02 am    Post subject: Re: I didn't call 811, and then hit a gas line! Reply with quote

brilliant! maybe a bigfoot footprint next to the hole too... Laughing
_________________
we are only given a little spark of madness - so you mustn't lose it!

a kubelwagen is on my bucket-car list
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
oprn
Samba Member


Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 6692
Location: Canada
oprn is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2020 6:34 am    Post subject: Re: I didn't call 811, and then hit a gas line! Reply with quote

This whole scenario it total BS! There is no way in Hades that should have happened. The utility company should be charged with endangering your life. You should be able to put a shovel into the ground anywhere on your property without fearing for your life! Good Lord that's about as close to planting a land mine on your property as you can get!

The proper procedure in our area for decades has been when you get close to a known gas or electrical line with a trench you stop machine digging and EXPOSE THE LINE BY HAND BY DIGGING WITH A SHOVEL!!

Strike 1, if their line could not withstand hand digging with a shovel then they are negligent and are a risk to public health and safety! Strike 2 is that the line was not at a reasonable depth.

Question, was there a tracer wire beside the plastic line? I don't see one so calling 811 likely would not have helped as you cannot detect a plastic line without a tracer wire.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
jspbtown
Samba Member


Joined: January 27, 2004
Posts: 4907

jspbtown is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2020 8:00 am    Post subject: Re: I didn't call 811, and then hit a gas line! Reply with quote

First thing I would do is go to your town/city's Municipal building and walk straight into the building department and ask to see the Code Enforcement Officer.

Having a gas line buried that shallow would NEVER fly out where I live. If it was against code then you have a real argument to protest that assessment. You could have hit that line planting flowers for goodness sake....

Plus...that conversation is free and if the Code Enforcement officer takes his job seriously you might have a very strong ally in your corner.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Abscate Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 16447
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
Abscate is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 9:51 am    Post subject: Re: I didn't call 811, and then hit a gas line! Reply with quote

Another thing to consider.

If you can generate enough calls from neighborhood people asking them to map location and depth of high pressure has line on their property the liability guys at PGE will be be forced into a position of knowledge of dangerous conditions ....aka " you knew about this"

Civic duty aside , I'm not sure how you parlay this into getting your fine relieved.

IANL but my guess is this is just a civil action and not relevant to your ability to get gas service , i.e. They can't shut you off for not paying this

The easement to install gas line on your property probably has a covenant that itvhaa to be maintained to conform to codes , too. YOur CEO should have something to say about by that.

From pipeline safety trust organizations


Quote:
Federal regulations require that transmission pipelines and regulated type A gathering lines be buried at least 30 inches below the surface in rural areas and deeper (36 inches) in more populated areas. In addition, the pipeline must be buried deeper in some locations, such as at road and railroad crossings (36 inches) and crossings of navigable bodies of water (48 inches), and may be less in other locations such as when it is installed in consolidated rock (18 to 24 inches). Distribution mains must be at least 24 inches deep with some exceptions. Service lines on distribution systems must be 12 inches deep on private property, and 18 inches deep along roads and streets. e depth of burial is just for installation, and there is nothing in the federal regulations that requires this depth be maintained over time. ese depth requirements went into e ect in 1970, and pipelines that were installed before that time did not have to meet these requirements.

_________________
.ssS!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Randall
Samba Member


Joined: October 03, 2004
Posts: 1330
Location: Orange County, Alta California, El Norte
Randall is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2021 12:33 am    Post subject: Re: I didn't call 811, and then hit a gas line! Reply with quote

If you want to be your own lawyer you can sue them in Small Claims Court, but first you'll need to file a claim against PG&E. If your claim is denied then you can go after them in Small Claims Court.
"How to Sue a Government Agency in Small Claims Court" ---> https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/free-books/small-claims-book/chapter8-9.html

Small Claims Court handles claim amounts up to $10,000.
https://www.courts.ca.gov/1256.htm
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
LAGrunthaner
Samba Member


Joined: March 18, 2007
Posts: 4863
Location: 1st Coast
LAGrunthaner is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2021 4:57 am    Post subject: Re: I didn't call 811, and then hit a gas line! Reply with quote

OTO X58, I agree with Abscate regarding homeowners insurance, or even auto insurance you never know without research and asking. If insurance doesn't cover it go to your utility company and see if they would lower it. If they don't you could tell them you don't have the money but will pay over time and stretch it out in installments. Glad you are OK and the shovel didn't cause a spark. Please keep us updated.

"Safety Hazard

A call should also be made to an individual’s homeowner’s insurance provider so that it can be determined if the repair is covered. In most cases, it’s unlikely that this type of accident would be covered under a homeowner’s standard policy."

https://www.encyclopedia.com/articles/does-homeowners-insurance-cover-a-gas-line-replacement/

Gas line is usually black pipe but some areas can use copper but that is crazy to me.

"Piping materials

Steel, copper, brass: The most common gas piping is black steel. Galvanized steel, copper, brass or CSST (Corrugated Stainless Steel Tubing) also can be used in some areas, but some utilities specifically prohibit the use of copper. In other areas, the use of copper is widespread. You should know what is acceptable in your area. Steel piping typically is black with malleable iron or steel fittings. Galvanized steel is used in some areas as well."

As per link:
https://www.carsondunlop.com/training/resources/everything-you-need-to-know-about-gas-piping/

Abscate wrote:
Homeowners should cover some of that loss after your deductible.

I think you will win this one successfully without a lawyer if you call them up,and talk like an adult.

_________________
American Red Cross Safe And Well link:
https://safeandwell.communityos.org/cms/index.php?...OSmeUzh8l4
Maui Roadsters VW Logo
www.mauiroadsters.com
Lind wrote:
Have you considered simply starting with a nicer bus? I don't know what your skills are, but the race is easier if you can see the finish line. If you are not a runner, don't start off doing a marathon.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Abscate Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 16447
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
Abscate is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2021 5:45 am    Post subject: Re: I didn't call 811, and then hit a gas line! Reply with quote

Randall wrote:
If you want to be your own lawyer you can sue them in Small Claims Court, but first you'll need to file a claim against PG&E. If your claim is denied then you can go after them in Small Claims Court.
"How to Sue a Government Agency in Small Claims Court" ---> https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/free-books/small-claims-book/chapter8-9.html

Small Claims Court handles claim amounts up to $10,000.
https://www.courts.ca.gov/1256.htm


I think PGE is a private entity, not government. The venue for a small claims case would have to be sorted out.

Here’s an idea, call 811 now for mapping them ask the mapper for the depth of the gas line to be mapped, documented.
_________________
.ssS!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
OTO X58
Samba Member


Joined: March 27, 2004
Posts: 3033
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
OTO X58 is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2021 9:37 pm    Post subject: Re: I didn't call 811, and then hit a gas line! Reply with quote

Quick update.
I have been arguing with PG&E about this. I stated my case, that I am a homeowner and was only using a shovel to dig 6” deep. Not a contractor or using power tools. I asked if I could speak to someone who would have the authority to drastically reduce or waive the bill. I also included a picture of the shallow line. And explained that my home owners insurance deductible is $3k, so that’s no help.

In their first response they offered to reduce the bill by 20% if I pay the whole thong in one shot. I replied that I’d really like to speak with someone about this. And they replied back that they’d do 30% off, final offer. (That makes it $2300) And that’s where we are right now. I haven’t replied yet.

I think I am going to ask again to speak with someone. On one hand I don’t think they’d offer this discount this quick if they weren’t prepared to discount further. On the other hand the department head might get fed up and go back to the full amount. But with the line being less than 6” under ground, and also being ancient and past its service life, and the fact that I hit it with a regular shovel... I just have a feeling that if I keep pushing they will let this go, quite possibly with no charge.

What would you do?
_________________
-Thomas

RIP HBB 10.10.84 - 12.25.09
Autocross 1958 Rag Build - Subaru Swap!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Instagram Gallery Classifieds Feedback
VW_Jimbo Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: May 22, 2016
Posts: 6879
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
VW_Jimbo is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2021 10:20 pm    Post subject: Re: I didn't call 811, and then hit a gas line! Reply with quote

OTO X58 wrote:
Our utilities are supposed to be 18 inches under ground, and the trench filled with sand above the pipe, to act as a warning to anyone digging.

That pipe is before my meter, about 100 feet from the road, right before a Tee that goes to my house and my neighbor's house.

That pipe is plastic, not copper. And their repair was to just push a coupler over the pipe, similar to a push-to-connect fitting on a water line to an ice maker. That's one reason I am surprised it cost so much. It took like 20 minutes.

There's definitely erosion in that area, so it may have been installed properly like 50 years ago in the 1970s. I don't really blame PG&E for the depth of the line. But I also do think that they should probably inspect these older utilities with a meter to gauge the depth. Especially with all the fires and deaths across California that they've been found guilty of, due to lack of maintenance.

Here's my issue. I make a mistake and I own that. I should have called the number, and I will pay the bill for the damage and emergency personnel cost that I caused. BUT, I feel like they're padding the bill pretty heavily. And I wish they would take into account that I'm just a guy with a shovel barely digging deep at all, not a contractor with an excavator. I hope they'll be reasonable on the phone and give me a break, and I will fight for that.. But if not, then I'll ultimately pay the bill.

I also feel like they now know that one of their gas lines in my yard is not only past its service life (by their own admission), but it also only 6" deep. They know that now, and I want them to come fix that. I wish they had checked on this at some time in the past because then maybe I wouldn't have had this incident happen, but in the end it was my fault for being ignorant of the law that requires me to call 811.


Tell them to have their “ uninsured coverage” portion of their insurance pay.

My kid knocked a street light pole over with a Jeep. We were told that the city insurance policy covers those types of accidents.

My point is, in this highly litigious society, most entities with any improvements, have insurance coverage.

Also, any and all plumbing is installed to a national code level. If you go to International Code Counsel, you can educate yourself on current code. Betting they were required to bring this up to current safety code level, but decided to count beans. Beans won out and they slid the “improvement” for another, more bountiful time.

What does your Home Owners insurance agent say? You may have some coverage from them.
_________________
Jimbo

There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!
nshaddox wrote:
Plus I tend to prefer these impossible projects that take way too much time. There’s no thrill in easy projects. Challenges are fun.

67rustavenger wrote:
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! Smile


Last edited by VW_Jimbo on Sun Jan 31, 2021 10:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Onceler
Samba Member


Joined: May 28, 2010
Posts: 1508
Location: Indiana
Onceler is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2021 10:23 pm    Post subject: Re: I didn't call 811, and then hit a gas line! Reply with quote

Their labor rate seems ridiculous at least in my part of the country. Maybe recalculate using a realistic labor rate and see if they accept? The actual labor rate and what pg&e marks up for labor is probably the 30% discount. Just keep picking over the details. Was there actual overtime for them? Was there really a need for Engineering/mapping service at double time? I doubt it, since when do salary folks get double time? Even if they do, that doesn’t mean it’s your problem. Recalculate their calculations using your own numbers and make an offer. Use your educated informed opinion. Maybe they’d take $1000 if you back up your position with numbers.
They probably get absolutely nothing from so many folks that simply fall off the face of the earth that they’ll probably come down quite a bit.
Basically their numbers aren’t real and your numbers won’t be either, but could allow both parties to see where an agreement can be reached.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
finster
Samba Member


Joined: May 26, 2012
Posts: 3263
Location: north o' the border
finster is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2021 6:49 am    Post subject: Re: I didn't call 811, and then hit a gas line! Reply with quote

sounds to me like they know they have a weak stance on this - I'd be tempted to get a solicitor involved and give them a shot across the bows...
_________________
we are only given a little spark of madness - so you mustn't lose it!

a kubelwagen is on my bucket-car list
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
jspbtown
Samba Member


Joined: January 27, 2004
Posts: 4907

jspbtown is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2021 7:19 am    Post subject: Re: I didn't call 811, and then hit a gas line! Reply with quote

Quote:
What would you do?


Have you talked to the code enforcement officer in your town/city yet.

I am still in total dismay that a GAS COMPANY can lay a line just under the surface. It shocks me that something so potentially dangerous can be so close under the surface. Your code enforcement officer could be a VERY strong advocate if this is an unacceptable practice.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Off Topic All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page: Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 2 of 4

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2020, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB