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P24p1 Samba Member
Joined: August 20, 2020 Posts: 363 Location: Canada, Quebec
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Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2020 4:14 pm Post subject: Stupid Question Ahead: How does one install this repair panel? |
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Is this crossmember repair panel:
https://store.concept1.ca/T2-Cross-Member-Front-73-79-%289556800%29-9556800/
Intended to be used as a sort of sleeve? I have one from PO that I have not installed, it's wider than the original and short enough to fit between the main frame rails and therefore slides right onto the original. This leads me to think that maybe this panel can be installed over the original without having to cut said original out first? I feel stupid asking this but I'm new to welding and restoring a VW bus and I can't find any info on why this cross member is different than, say, this one:
https://store.concept1.ca/T2-Cross-Member-Front-68-72-%289555800%29-9555800/
Thanks! |
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67ctbug Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2016 Posts: 3624 Location: CT
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Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2020 4:23 pm Post subject: Re: Stupid Question Ahead: How does one install this repair panel? |
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Well for one they’re for different years. ‘68-‘72 vs ‘73-‘79. This may explain why you’re able to slip it over. I will suggest you don’t slip it over though, that’s a good way to make the bus rust out again. _________________ '67 Beetle L41
'74 Westfalia
'69 Plymouth "Adam-12"
'63 Ragtop
'73 914
'72 Dodge Wrecker
Go Cubs!
World Series Champions 2016
KentPS wrote: |
...or the PO envied the terrorists' bus in "Back to the Future". |
mukluk wrote: |
He's fine, just waiting for the dragon in winklepickers to move out of his lane. |
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cmonSTART Samba Member
Joined: July 15, 2014 Posts: 1915 Location: NH
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Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2020 4:48 pm Post subject: Re: Stupid Question Ahead: How does one install this repair panel? |
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Personally I would look for a better panel. Klokkerholm are a last resort IMO and weird fits wouldn't surprise me. _________________ '78 Bus 2.0FI
de K1IGS |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51153 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2020 4:50 pm Post subject: Re: Stupid Question Ahead: How does one install this repair panel? |
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Odd that the lower one says 68-72, from here it looks to have the larger holes for the 73+ heater tubing.
That top one is for the lazy flipper, it goes hand in hand with the inner rockers with similar cutouts for quickly slipping over the rusty mess and making it look good enough to sell. If the upper part of your existing part is intact and you cut away most of what the new one covers it'll be better than nothing under there, but if you want it done right you'll have to drop the heater tubes and some of the cable tubes to get the full sized part in. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2020 5:07 pm Post subject: Re: Stupid Question Ahead: How does one install this repair panel? |
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add the year of your bay to your avatar or sig line. _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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P24p1 Samba Member
Joined: August 20, 2020 Posts: 363 Location: Canada, Quebec
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Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2020 5:21 pm Post subject: Re: Stupid Question Ahead: How does one install this repair panel? |
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67ctbug wrote: |
Well for one they’re for different years. ‘68-‘72 vs ‘73-‘79. This may explain why you’re able to slip it over. I will suggest you don’t slip it over though, that’s a good way to make the bus rust out again. |
I've taken that one as a rough example, but the website has both versions for the 68-72 models, that is a "slip over" one and a full one. Mine is a 73-79 for my 73 so it's not the wrong year |
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P24p1 Samba Member
Joined: August 20, 2020 Posts: 363 Location: Canada, Quebec
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Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2020 5:23 pm Post subject: Re: Stupid Question Ahead: How does one install this repair panel? |
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SGKent wrote: |
add the year of your bay to your avatar or sig line. |
Done! _________________ 1973 Westfalia named Angie
What rust?
Rev it - don't lug it! |
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P24p1 Samba Member
Joined: August 20, 2020 Posts: 363 Location: Canada, Quebec
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Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2020 5:28 pm Post subject: Re: Stupid Question Ahead: How does one install this repair panel? |
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busdaddy wrote: |
Odd that the lower one says 68-72, from here it looks to have the larger holes for the 73+ heater tubing.
That top one is for the lazy flipper, it goes hand in hand with the inner rockers with similar cutouts for quickly slipping over the rusty mess and making it look good enough to sell. If the upper part of your existing part is intact and you cut away most of what the new one covers it'll be better than nothing under there, but if you want it done right you'll have to drop the heater tubes and some of the cable tubes to get the full sized part in. |
Sorry that was maybe not the best example, I've seen the same variant of panel for both variations of buses.
So what I'm taking away from what you're saying is that it does slip right over, awesome! I'll take the lazy flipper route Hey, this is the same bus that's getting a Rustoleum paint job so it's good enough! In all seriousness though, the hole in the cross member is maybe a few inches across, I'd say 80% of the original panel is still intact, so I think this will do for now. _________________ 1973 Westfalia named Angie
What rust?
Rev it - don't lug it! |
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Abscate Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 22670 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2020 5:45 pm Post subject: Re: Stupid Question Ahead: How does one install this repair panel? |
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Rustoleum??
Cue the BeArs!!
Seriously , good luck with your restoration _________________ .ssS! |
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P24p1 Samba Member
Joined: August 20, 2020 Posts: 363 Location: Canada, Quebec
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Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2020 5:51 pm Post subject: Re: Stupid Question Ahead: How does one install this repair panel? |
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Abscate wrote: |
Rustoleum??
Cue the BeArs!!
Seriously , good luck with your restoration |
Thank you! The paint job is actually going very well believe it or not! _________________ 1973 Westfalia named Angie
What rust?
Rev it - don't lug it! |
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Joey Samba Member
Joined: August 12, 2005 Posts: 5366 Location: Nova Scotia - Canada
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Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2020 7:06 pm Post subject: Re: Stupid Question Ahead: How does one install this repair panel? |
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If you slip that new crossmember over the old one moisture will get trapped between the two and they will both rust out in a very short time. _________________ Joey
‘60 Kombi - '74 Bus - '79 Panel - '65 Beetle |
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P24p1 Samba Member
Joined: August 20, 2020 Posts: 363 Location: Canada, Quebec
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Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2020 7:57 pm Post subject: Re: Stupid Question Ahead: How does one install this repair panel? |
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Joey wrote: |
If you slip that new crossmember over the old one moisture will get trapped between the two and they will both rust out in a very short time. |
There actually isn't any visible rust, it's all black. Maybe a rust paint or undercoat? I'm not sure. I do agree with you fully so what I think I'll do is at least cut out the "diseased" part and then slip it over, also maybe shoot some Rustoleum or Fluid Film up in it while I'm at it to deal with any potential moisture. Like I said, the majority of the panel is fine so hopefully it will last. If anything I could cut the repair panel to only cover the part that rusted out, that might be smart too. (?) _________________ 1973 Westfalia named Angie
What rust?
Rev it - don't lug it! |
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SamboSamba22 Samba Member
Joined: August 06, 2015 Posts: 2772 Location: Benton, Arkansas
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Alan Brase Samba Member
Joined: March 28, 2004 Posts: 4532 Location: Cedar Falls, Iowa
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Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 1:50 pm Post subject: Re: Stupid Question Ahead: How does one install this repair panel? |
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SamboSamba22 wrote: |
Abscate wrote: |
Rustoleum??
Cue the BeArs!!
Seriously , good luck with your restoration |
Dammit, I miss Tim. |
Remind me, who is TIM? and what became of him? _________________ Al Brase
Projects: 67 sunroof bug, 67 Porsche 912 Targa, 70 Westy
Dec 1955 Single Cab pickup WANT 15" BUS RIMS dated 8/55, thru 12/55
To New owners: 1969 doublecab, 1971 Dormobile
Vanagons:
80 P27 Westy JUL 1979, 3rd oldest known US
83 1.6TD Vanagon, 87 Wolfie Westy daily driver, swap meet home |
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Slip356 Samba Member
Joined: July 26, 2006 Posts: 394
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Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2021 6:32 am Post subject: Re: Stupid Question Ahead: How does one install this repair panel? |
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P24p1 to bring out the haters here is my experience.
About 15 yrs ago I purchased a rust free 78 Canadian Westy from a woman who owned it for 20 plus years. It had been ZBart type rust proofed.
It was really clean, however when I got home, after driving it from north Of Seattle to N WI with my wife, & camped all the way back I put it up on a lift only to find the inner drivers side dog leg was rusted through. That was all the rust I could find. Nothing showed exterior wise.
Thought, oh shit, ‘ I’ll get a new dogleg installed, someday.’ Cleaned up the visible rust, soaked it with Ospho and heavily sprayed it with 3M undercoating including inside the dogleg through the rust hole. Once per year when doing annual maintenance I check it and spray other areas where original rust proofing has come off exposing factory paint.
This temp repair has lasted for 15 yrs. and shows no evidence of changing.
Yes, I will get a new dogleg installed, someday. |
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Alan Brase Samba Member
Joined: March 28, 2004 Posts: 4532 Location: Cedar Falls, Iowa
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Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2021 12:22 pm Post subject: Re: Stupid Question Ahead: How does one install this repair panel? |
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Slip356 wrote: |
P24p1 to bring out the haters here is my experience.
About 15 yrs ago I purchased a rust free 78 Canadian Westy from a woman who owned it for 20 plus years. It had been ZBart type rust proofed.
It was really clean, however when I got home, after driving it from north Of Seattle to N WI with my wife, & camped all the way back I put it up on a lift only to find the inner drivers side dog leg was rusted through. That was all the rust I could find. Nothing showed exterior wise.
Thought, oh shit, ‘ I’ll get a new dogleg installed, someday.’ Cleaned up the visible rust, soaked it with Ospho and heavily sprayed it with 3M undercoating including inside the dogleg through the rust hole. Once per year when doing annual maintenance I check it and spray other areas where original rust proofing has come off exposing factory paint.
This temp repair has lasted for 15 yrs. and shows no evidence of changing.
Yes, I will get a new dogleg installed, someday. |
INNER? I'd just patch it. I would say very few have the skill to make a good patch that does not stir up more trouble especially at the rear where it attaches to the bulkhead/B pillar.
I'm pretty sure after the factory welds the whole thing together, they dip the whole car in phosphoric acid wash. Then paint it. then seam seal it.
Ospho use was a good plan in your case. _________________ Al Brase
Projects: 67 sunroof bug, 67 Porsche 912 Targa, 70 Westy
Dec 1955 Single Cab pickup WANT 15" BUS RIMS dated 8/55, thru 12/55
To New owners: 1969 doublecab, 1971 Dormobile
Vanagons:
80 P27 Westy JUL 1979, 3rd oldest known US
83 1.6TD Vanagon, 87 Wolfie Westy daily driver, swap meet home |
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P24p1 Samba Member
Joined: August 20, 2020 Posts: 363 Location: Canada, Quebec
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Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 1:39 pm Post subject: Re: Stupid Question Ahead: How does one install this repair panel? |
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Slip356 wrote: |
This temp repair has lasted for 15 yrs. and shows no evidence of changing.
Yes, I will get a new dogleg installed, someday. |
Well you know what they say, temporary repairs are permanent repairs! I indeed plan on the old "apply rust preventer on the reg" for many parts of my bus _________________ 1973 Westfalia named Angie
What rust?
Rev it - don't lug it! |
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