1835ccm Holset Turbo - A/R .82 too much?

[BFB]

those temps and afr are just default settings on that page.
but in my experience, 12 - 13 afr does seem do give more hp ( and i say " seems" because its judged by seat of the pants dyno. i have no actual dyno results). i was running as low as 10 - 11 afr at one time trying to take advantage of the cooling effect until i did some reading on how much less energy the richer mixture produced. i rejetted to get to 12 / 13 and it seemed to pic up a noticeable difference. from my reading i believe 13:1 produced the most " energy" ( pretty sure theres another word for it but i cant think of it right now). and i think thats why that page has 13:1 as its default.
besides that, our riding season ambient temps here are 90 to just over 100 so clone your " once ambient temps get to 70 - 80F .." ??? oh you poor thing to have to tune in such conditions!!! ( im just busting your balls ..). on my copper rail with the 2276 drawthrough ive hit my intakes with the IR thermo and if i remember right ive seen 130 temps, not sure what actual ait was though. i did add W/I last year and funny thing is it seemed ( seat of the pants ) to loose a little. didnt really get out much to test & tune last summer but hope to this year. im thinking it can handle a few more lbs now... heh heh

as far as intercoolers, how do yall figure they are 90% efficient? there are soooo many variables with placement , ambient temp, iat, etc. i even read in one of my turbo books that with improper placement and someone running low enough boost the intercooler can actually be an " interheater" , which i think makes complete sense. think about someone mounting an intercooler really low on a car that sits low to the ground and its 95 degree day that the asphalt is blistering ass hot and there only running 8lbs of boost. they probably be better of with no intercooler at all than that set up. i know thats an extreme example, but...
so i have intentionally just left the efficiency at 70% default setting for that reason. seems a safer bet to me.
have yall read iat pre and post intercooler?
_________________
Forced induction can overcome a lot of obsticles that gets in it's way
"You are the Engineer and the Mechanic.  
Build it your way not the way someone else does it. Their way might not work for you." - clonebug
An interesting thing happens in forums where everyone starts parroting the same thing and "common knowledge" takes over.
“ The monkey see monkey do mentality seems to run deep in VW people. "Gene Berg said it was so 30 years ago so thats the way it is" “ - bdkw1

[BFB]

stripp66 now that i think about it, im pretty sure you were acting like this in another post a while back too. so whatever dude, if all you want is to start dumpster fires im just going to ignore you & your b.s. posts. i dont remember you saying much worth reading anyhow, if i dont reply its just because i figured out how to block your posts.
_________________
Forced induction can overcome a lot of obsticles that gets in it's way
"You are the Engineer and the Mechanic.  
Build it your way not the way someone else does it. Their way might not work for you." - clonebug
An interesting thing happens in forums where everyone starts parroting the same thing and "common knowledge" takes over.
“ The monkey see monkey do mentality seems to run deep in VW people. "Gene Berg said it was so 30 years ago so thats the way it is" “ - bdkw1

[Chip]

[buguy]

90% efficient is just typical. I haven't measured before and after myself, but i will be. That's just an average. That number typically will get lower as boost rises. And again, just typical, 12 afr will make more power than 13, and 11 more than 12. Surely there is a line somewhere and each engine is different. You can plug that into the calculator to see that. I think the one that is off the furthest off is the VE. 70% is barely good enough for N/A. In a turbo it's not unheard of to see over 100% (especially when boost rises).
These are just calculations though. With close numbers they will give you a good idea of what's going on.

[oprn]

It's pretty common knowledge that the highest power AFR ratio is 14.5 to 14.7 for gasoline. That is by no coincidence also the hottest ratio where the most engine damage occurs and is to be avoided at all costs at full throttle. AFRs richer OR leaner run cooler and make less power. Most guys run on the richer side for the extra bit of cooling the raw gas provides.

Personally I tune for the mid to low 13s at full song. I know many tune for 10 or 11 under boost for the extra cooling, my feeling (though I have not tried it) is that the water/methanol injecting could take the place of that extra cooling fuel allowing you to run in the 13s instead of richer and there may be a small power gain as a result. It would be interesting to document any change.

Would your calculators show that?

[buguy]

Some calculators are pretty good and may? But by all means YOU build a turbo engine and tune it to mid 13's and let me know how it goes! I will keep mine at 11-12!
You could be right though. The W/I may provide that cooling needed not to have to run richer. I run E85 so that changes things. Especially at big boost levels. My car doesn't like to be in the 13's much. It barely likes it at light throttle cruise. I like where your head is at though. You may be onto something.

[clonebug]

[Shorty-DD]

Thanks all. After reading that all i have decided the Holset not to use. He is too big i think now. Unfortunately i can't read Turbo-maps so i take the experiences of others. It's only my 2nd Turbo-build.

Which Draw-through Turbo is more suitable for the 1835ccm engine? Boost in the higher rpm-range (to 7000) and readily available and affordable.
_________________
VW 1600 TL (Typ 3) - 1622cc + 34pict + Turbo = fun

[buguy]

Clone and I (plus others) both run/ran turbos off of a WRX with great results. I didn't run quite to 7000 rpm though. Boost at 2300 rpm or so and 30 psi. It's a very very good street turbo. TD04-13t is good to 275hp i think.

[oprn]

[Krochus]

[oprn]

[madmike]

I buy e-bay turbo's for under $200
look for a AR .48 and 60 trim this will work for you.
Cheers,mike

_________________
'Black Ice'Drag Buggy 'Turbo'
Rail Buggy 1915 turbo
76 Drag/Street bug 2180cc 'Turbo' 11:85 @113 mph"If I go any faster I'll burn up the Hamster" ,gets 28 mpg. also 10/09/22 11.90 @115 mph
"If I'm ever on Life Support,UNPLUG Me, Then Plug me back In see if that Works"

[oprn]

Any issues with the quality of those turbos Madmike? And do they have a carbon seal for draw through?
_________________
We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age)

[Krochus]

[buguy]

I didn't have Chinese turbos when i was drawthrough, but i never had a carbon seal and had no issues with that.

[madmike]

No seal, just have a -10 an or a 3/4" drain , I've never had any issues with these cheap turbos ,, for the price , I've tried a few
_________________
'Black Ice'Drag Buggy 'Turbo'
Rail Buggy 1915 turbo
76 Drag/Street bug 2180cc 'Turbo' 11:85 @113 mph"If I go any faster I'll burn up the Hamster" ,gets 28 mpg. also 10/09/22 11.90 @115 mph
"If I'm ever on Life Support,UNPLUG Me, Then Plug me back In see if that Works"

[BFB]

i was gunna ask u guys that recommended turbos about which had carbon seals too but oprn beat me to it...
im sure the seal is way more critical on a driver tha a racer. i had a little pulling tractor ( lawnmower type ) not that long ago that that i put a turbo on. did it both as drawthrough and blowthrough. the turbo did not have a carbon seal and using it as a drawthrough that thing smoked like diesel truck with the fuel pump turned up, esp when throttle plate closed or at idle.
other than burning oil i dont guess thered be a problem?
_________________
Forced induction can overcome a lot of obsticles that gets in it's way
"You are the Engineer and the Mechanic.  
Build it your way not the way someone else does it. Their way might not work for you." - clonebug
An interesting thing happens in forums where everyone starts parroting the same thing and "common knowledge" takes over.
“ The monkey see monkey do mentality seems to run deep in VW people. "Gene Berg said it was so 30 years ago so thats the way it is" “ - bdkw1

[buguy]

The only time mine ever smoked is when the drain line got kinked. I think if you have a nice big drain line it "shouldn't" be a problem. Of course there are always exceptions. Mine was a driver too.

[BFB]