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allamaabroad Samba Member
Joined: September 22, 2016 Posts: 560 Location: South Jordan, Utah
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Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2021 6:52 pm Post subject: Clutch Recommendations |
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Looking for a recommendation for a clutch disc for my new turbo 2176 motor (build thread soon to come) As far as I have seen, this motor should be very capable of 220+ hp, and it is meant to be a daily driver. I’ve already purchased a stage 2 pressure plate from Kennedy, and I now need to decide on a disc.
What do you recommend? _________________ Dennis - 1973 Super Beetle ('16-'21)
Debbie- 1970 Baywindow Bus ('21 - Present)
Tin top camper/adventure bus
2180 TW: CNC Panchitos, Beehives Done Right, Web 163, Ultralight Lifters, 1.3 Rockers, CSP Python, Custom Speeduino EFI Conversion with 40mm Throttle Bodies
Distributors are lame
I have a really hard time leaving things alone...
Innovative and affordable engine management systems and EFI conversions for your Vintage VW
Visit https://debbiesaircooled.com/ |
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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76935 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2021 6:55 pm Post subject: Re: Clutch Recommendations |
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A Stage II will get old real fast if you drive in traffic. _________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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buguy Samba Member
Joined: November 17, 2003 Posts: 4915 Location: Port Orange, FL
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Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2021 7:14 pm Post subject: Re: Clutch Recommendations |
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Don't have a lot of choice with that kind of power. You will be on the edge with a stage 2 and Daikin disk at that level. Mine started to slip around that power. I went with a stage 2 and a centerforce, and it held for the 15 miles i got on it. It held enough to break the axle.
I think if i were to do it again i would spring for something like a Kennedy dual disk. Pair that with a stage 1 pressure plate. |
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Stripped66 Samba Member
Joined: May 31, 2005 Posts: 3470 Location: Charleston, SC
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Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2021 7:19 pm Post subject: Re: Clutch Recommendations |
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buguy wrote: |
I went with a stage 2 and a centerforce... |
I also daily-drove a Stage 2 with a Centerforce (Berg) disc for years. No complaints, I'd do it again. _________________
66brm wrote: |
Bodacious wrote: |
Why not just make a custom set of wires with a Y splice in them. Then you could just run one distributor. |
I don't think electrickery works that way |
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esde Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2007 Posts: 5969 Location: central rust belt
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Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2021 7:33 pm Post subject: Re: Clutch Recommendations |
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Glenn wrote: |
A Stage II will get old real fast if you drive in traffic. |
I have the "long" arm on the clutch shaft, and it's not bad at all. If you use the stock short arm it is a bit tighter. _________________ modok wrote:
Bent cranks are silent but gather no moss. I mean, ah, something like that. |
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clonebug Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2005 Posts: 4027 Location: NW Washington
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Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2021 8:29 pm Post subject: Re: Clutch Recommendations |
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I have a Kennedy Stage II PP with a CB Super Disc tested and then shimmed .031" to get me to holding 250 ft. lbs. torque on my torque wrench. I would have tested higher but my torque wrench was maxed out.
I recommend testing anything you install. That way you know what you gain when you change.
Get an old input shaft and weld a 1/2 inch drive socket on it or a 15/16ths nut and then you can use a torque wrench to test.
I used a metric Wavy washer under each pad to get my .031" shim...It's worked well for three seasons now.
I drive it daily spring through fall and have at least 13,000 miles on the combo. I did add a 100mm arm...actually I extended a stock arm to 100mm since I couldn't find a long arm at the time.
I have no issues driving it on the street. It is a little stiffer than the Stage I but not like it would bother.
So far it's holding 220 plus crank hp. _________________
vwracerdave wrote: |
Take a good long look in the mirror and report back on what you see. |
Paul.H wrote: |
That one line on that chart is probably better info than you can get from this place in a month |
My Megasquirt Fuel Injection Turbo Buggy Build
Water/Alcohol Injection
Audi TT intercooler
Upgraded to MS3Pro-Evo
EcuMaster PMU16
ECUMaster ADU5 Digital Dash
http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=127936 |
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buguy Samba Member
Joined: November 17, 2003 Posts: 4915 Location: Port Orange, FL
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Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2021 8:56 pm Post subject: Re: Clutch Recommendations |
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My new trans has a long arm so I'm looking forward to that. Art do you have any idea what your car weighs? Would weight impact clutch holding much? |
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allamaabroad Samba Member
Joined: September 22, 2016 Posts: 560 Location: South Jordan, Utah
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Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2021 10:09 pm Post subject: Re: Clutch Recommendations |
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I already have an ACE copperhead disc, sounds like that's pretty much the same thing as the super disc/centerforce. Is that correct?
I was pretty happy with the copperhead on my 1915, I'd happily use it again if it will work nicely with the stage 2 on this motor. _________________ Dennis - 1973 Super Beetle ('16-'21)
Debbie- 1970 Baywindow Bus ('21 - Present)
Tin top camper/adventure bus
2180 TW: CNC Panchitos, Beehives Done Right, Web 163, Ultralight Lifters, 1.3 Rockers, CSP Python, Custom Speeduino EFI Conversion with 40mm Throttle Bodies
Distributors are lame
I have a really hard time leaving things alone...
Innovative and affordable engine management systems and EFI conversions for your Vintage VW
Visit https://debbiesaircooled.com/ |
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clonebug Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2005 Posts: 4027 Location: NW Washington
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Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2021 10:23 pm Post subject: Re: Clutch Recommendations |
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Copperhead disc should give a lot more holding power than a CB Super Disc.
I would try that disc with the Stage I if you already have it...it might be all you need....But since you have a Stage II on the way you might as well run the Copper Disc.
I'm turboed with a 1679 and 220 crank hp.....you should be itching to turn it up and surpass me in a few months of driving.
I know Chip and Mario were having clutch issues way back when...Mario was fighting it at 236 whp and Chip was way up there too and having slippage issues. _________________
vwracerdave wrote: |
Take a good long look in the mirror and report back on what you see. |
Paul.H wrote: |
That one line on that chart is probably better info than you can get from this place in a month |
My Megasquirt Fuel Injection Turbo Buggy Build
Water/Alcohol Injection
Audi TT intercooler
Upgraded to MS3Pro-Evo
EcuMaster PMU16
ECUMaster ADU5 Digital Dash
http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=127936 |
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clonebug Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2005 Posts: 4027 Location: NW Washington
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Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2021 10:24 pm Post subject: Re: Clutch Recommendations |
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buguy wrote: |
My new trans has a long arm so I'm looking forward to that. Art do you have any idea what your car weighs? Would weight impact clutch holding much? |
My Buggy weighs 1660 with me in it.....I would say tire would have a bunch to do with it.
Put an 11 inch wide tire in the back of your bug........ _________________
vwracerdave wrote: |
Take a good long look in the mirror and report back on what you see. |
Paul.H wrote: |
That one line on that chart is probably better info than you can get from this place in a month |
My Megasquirt Fuel Injection Turbo Buggy Build
Water/Alcohol Injection
Audi TT intercooler
Upgraded to MS3Pro-Evo
EcuMaster PMU16
ECUMaster ADU5 Digital Dash
http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=127936 |
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neil68 Samba Member
Joined: March 17, 2007 Posts: 3440 Location: Calgary, Canada
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Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2021 11:25 pm Post subject: Re: Clutch Recommendations |
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KEP Stage 2 with Centerforce dual-friction disc and 100mm clutch lever. 204 WHP in my street-strip Beetle. _________________ Neil.
Der Kleiner Rennwagens
68 Beetle 2332 cc, 204 WHP
12.5 seconds @ 107 mph
Dynojet Test: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9B_H3eklAo |
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buguy Samba Member
Joined: November 17, 2003 Posts: 4915 Location: Port Orange, FL
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Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2021 4:34 am Post subject: Re: Clutch Recommendations |
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clonebug wrote: |
buguy wrote: |
My new trans has a long arm so I'm looking forward to that. Art do you have any idea what your car weighs? Would weight impact clutch holding much? |
My Buggy weighs 1660 with me in it.....I would say tire would have a bunch to do with it.
Put an 11 inch wide tire in the back of your bug........ |
I wish i could! It needs it! But i have to say, i don't think that is really much lighter than mine. I was expecting you to say more like 1400#. My 65 is only 1600# stock. Ive never weighed it myself. A little more with the turbo, electronics, and W/A intercooler....and my 160#. But i also have no chrome, bumpers, one piece windows, and glass fenders. |
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madmike Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2005 Posts: 5292 Location: Atlanta,Michigan
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Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2021 4:40 am Post subject: Re: Clutch Recommendations |
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with a stage 1 _________________ 'Black Ice'Drag Buggy 'Turbo'
Rail Buggy 1915 turbo
76 Drag/Street bug 2180cc 'Turbo' 11:85 @113 mph"If I go any faster I'll burn up the Hamster" ,gets 28 mpg. also 10/09/22 11.90 @115 mph
"If I'm ever on Life Support,UNPLUG Me, Then Plug me back In see if that Works" |
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clonebug Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2005 Posts: 4027 Location: NW Washington
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Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2021 6:28 am Post subject: Re: Clutch Recommendations |
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1660 lbs is with me in it... Not many cars move without a driver..
The roll bar added 110 lbs. It used to be 1540 lbs with me in it. _________________
vwracerdave wrote: |
Take a good long look in the mirror and report back on what you see. |
Paul.H wrote: |
That one line on that chart is probably better info than you can get from this place in a month |
My Megasquirt Fuel Injection Turbo Buggy Build
Water/Alcohol Injection
Audi TT intercooler
Upgraded to MS3Pro-Evo
EcuMaster PMU16
ECUMaster ADU5 Digital Dash
http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=127936 |
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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76935 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2021 6:50 am Post subject: Re: Clutch Recommendations |
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madmike wrote: |
with a stage 1 |
Never seen a 4 puck with a sprung center?
Only EMPI. _________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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volksworld Samba Member
Joined: November 26, 2011 Posts: 2529 Location: formerly NY currently NC
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Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2021 9:12 am Post subject: Re: Clutch Recommendations |
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well they added 3 more rivets in hopes of it not exploding... |
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madmike Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2005 Posts: 5292 Location: Atlanta,Michigan
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Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2021 11:08 am Post subject: Re: Clutch Recommendations |
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look real close guys ,, Made in USA
have same one in my turbo bug for the last 5 YEARS _________________ 'Black Ice'Drag Buggy 'Turbo'
Rail Buggy 1915 turbo
76 Drag/Street bug 2180cc 'Turbo' 11:85 @113 mph"If I go any faster I'll burn up the Hamster" ,gets 28 mpg. also 10/09/22 11.90 @115 mph
"If I'm ever on Life Support,UNPLUG Me, Then Plug me back In see if that Works" |
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Casting Timmy Samba Member
Joined: August 04, 2012 Posts: 1221 Location: Kansas City, Kansas
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Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2021 11:16 am Post subject: Re: Clutch Recommendations |
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a lighter disc can be controlled better by the synchros in the transaxle....another factor of how much disc/ plate to run is how much transaxle you have.
I've recommended some people disc or plate down a little if they aren't going to do much with their transaxle, clutches are easier to replace than the transaxle. _________________ T1 IRS Rebuild Book on Lulu.com
http://www.lulu.com/shop/tim-marshall/t1-irs-transaxle-book/paperback/product-24055997.html
As seen in Volks America Issue 14 Page 11 (Full page review) |
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74 Thing Samba Member
Joined: September 02, 2004 Posts: 7391
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Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2021 12:05 pm Post subject: Re: Clutch Recommendations |
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Casting Timmy wrote: |
a lighter disc can be controlled better by the synchros in the transaxle....another factor of how much disc/ plate to run is how much transaxle you have.
I've recommended some people disc or plate down a little if they aren't going to do much with their transaxle, clutches are easier to replace than the transaxle. |
That is what Scott always says, a lighter clutch disc saves synchros compared to a heavy copper disc. |
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madmike Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2005 Posts: 5292 Location: Atlanta,Michigan
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Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2021 12:17 pm Post subject: Re: Clutch Recommendations |
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shhh I was trying to drum up some business for u guys _________________ 'Black Ice'Drag Buggy 'Turbo'
Rail Buggy 1915 turbo
76 Drag/Street bug 2180cc 'Turbo' 11:85 @113 mph"If I go any faster I'll burn up the Hamster" ,gets 28 mpg. also 10/09/22 11.90 @115 mph
"If I'm ever on Life Support,UNPLUG Me, Then Plug me back In see if that Works" |
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