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didget69
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm amazed that people still solder terminals to wires.

The Automakers haven't done it in more than 30 years... Laughing

bnc
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joescoolcustoms
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

didget69 wrote:
I'm amazed that people still solder terminals to wires.

The Automakers haven't done it in more than 30 years... Laughing

bnc


They have a lot more recalls than I do.
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Dale M.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jspbtown wrote:
I personally never liked sheet metal screw grounds. Rust/vibration gets in and your connection suffers. Then you are chasing gremlins as the device seeks a ground.


Dielectric grease...

Dale
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didget69
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

joescoolcustoms wrote:
didget69 wrote:
I'm amazed that people still solder terminals to wires.

The Automakers haven't done it in more than 30 years... Laughing

bnc


They have a lot more recalls than I do.


Funny thing is that the harness connections aren't typically the issue; it's devices attached to the wires that are causing the release of wire smoke.

Hmm... I'd imagine that they've also built just a few more cars than you? Wink

bnc
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joescoolcustoms
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

didget69 wrote:
joescoolcustoms wrote:
didget69 wrote:
I'm amazed that people still solder terminals to wires.

The Automakers haven't done it in more than 30 years... Laughing

bnc


They have a lot more recalls than I do.


Funny thing is that the harness connections aren't typically the issue; it's devices attached to the wires that are causing the release of wire smoke.

Hmm... I'd imagine that they've also built just a few more cars than you? Wink

bnc


You got me there.

So, thinking about soldering. It takes me about 30 seconds more to solder a wire end after crimping it. I typically solder about 60 connections on one of my buggy's, (Do not solder the Delphi style weather tight connections because they are protected). That is an additional 30 minutes in the overall build. Say I am off by a factor of 100%, that would be an additional 1 hour in a $ 10,000 + buggy.
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Dale M.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 6:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't solder and I don't have any problems with electrical connections... Proper crimp tools and dielectric grease (antioxidation grease) have been in my work and play world for last 50 years....

Dale
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porkey
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 6:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dale M. wrote:
I don't solder and I don't have any problems with electrical connections... Proper crimp tools and dielectric grease (antioxidation grease) have been in my work and play world for last 50 years....

Dale

So do you smear or dip your wires into the dielectric grease prior to crimping? Or do you use it on the crimped terminal end prior to or after connection is made?
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Dale M.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

porkey wrote:
Dale M. wrote:
I don't solder and I don't have any problems with electrical connections... Proper crimp tools and dielectric grease (antioxidation grease) have been in my work and play world for last 50 years....

Dale

So do you smear or dip your wires into the dielectric grease prior to crimping? Or do you use it on the crimped terminal end prior to or after connection is made?


Both.... (after connection helps, but not as good and before connecting)

Dielectric grease keeps oxygen and moisture out of connection, helps prevent corrosion....

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


This (below) is what we used in telecommunications industry on all power connections ... Size makes it not practical to purchase for small user one tube will last till your great grand kids are old...

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Dale
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didget69
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The main reasons that Aviation / Marine / Automotive arenas are using mechanical crimping for wire terminals is speed & repeatability in getting good connections vs soldering. Field repair of crimp terminals is also easier.

Secondary reason is the elimination/lessening of dissimilar metals corrosion issues.

Getting repeatable, good quality solder connections can be tough. People have varying degrees of soldering skills.

bnc
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EVfun
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If someone knows how to solder well it can be an improvement in the connection and its reliability. The auto is a high vibration environment where strain relief for wiring is important. The problem comes when people who are not as good end up wicking solder up the wires. Where it ends becomes a flex point so it needs to end before the strain relief. That can be harder to consistently accomplish that it sounds. I do plenty of soldering, but I only crimp automotive wiring.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 6:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Wiring Reply with quote

What's the preferred way to route the wiring loom front to back?

I've seen wiring run up under the body inside the fender area along the driver's side. But I'm unclear how the wiring loom is attached to the body securely and not exposed to the elements (debris).

Thanks.
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Dale M.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 7:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Wiring Reply with quote

On my buggy It has a reinforcement under lip the allowed me to run a 1 inch plastic flex conduit from front to rear.....I ran it on passenger side because bulk of wiring for my buggy was on passenger side...

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


#1 Rear of buggy at engine fan shroud
#2 Conduit over rear wheel.
#3 Conduit inder boduy lip.
#4 At from "firewall" and about to duch through hole in FW...

This was on my autocross buggy, but almost identical to what I did on my street/show buggy...

Dale
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Last edited by Dale M. on Sat Jan 09, 2021 8:56 am; edited 1 time in total
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jspbtown
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 7:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Wiring Reply with quote

I have used plastic drain tube from Home Depot

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Flotec-Sump-Pump-Discharge-Hose-Kit-FP0012-6U-P2/100645330

Its cheap. Its about the right size.

I have also used zip tie mounts which are epoxied to the glass every foot or so in conjunction with the tube:
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Commercial-Electric-1-.../300348291
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joescoolcustoms
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 7:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Wiring Reply with quote

jspbtown wrote:
I have used plastic drain tube from Home Depot

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Flotec-Sump-Pump-Discharge-Hose-Kit-FP0012-6U-P2/100645330

Its cheap. Its about the right size.

I have also used zip tie mounts which are epoxied to the glass every foot or so in conjunction with the tube:
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Commercial-Electric-1-.../300348291


I have on three buggies used PVC conduit, heated it and shaped it to the underside of the body, then glassed over it creating the wire chase, and add more strength to the body like Bruce did on the early Manx Bodies.

But it is time consuming. I really like that flexible tubing linked above, and will try it on the next two I am building.

Thanks for that Link!
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clonebug
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 7:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Wiring Reply with quote

I built my buggy way back in 2002 and it has been driven since 2004.
When I started building it I really knew very little about wiring and building in general......although I was blessed with a decent amount of common sense from my Father and Mother.

I ended up running my primary engine wires to a 8 position terminal block on the fire wall and from there all the engine wires run down the passenger side of the tunnel and through the pan support in back to the engine.
All the body wiring is run under the passenger side of the body.......I thought it was the drivers side but the body was upside down while I was wiring it and by the time I realized it I had most of the wiring to the back....
The original engine wires were.

Main Battery Power 8 Gauge.
Main Ground 8 gauge.
Ignition coil power
Starter Solenoid activation from ignition switch.
Oil light
Oil pressure
Alternator light
Spare....

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Here is the taillight wiring.......I have learned a LOT in those 15-16 years......

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Front Fenders

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


It turned out to be a blessing in disguise because I could then easily pull the body without having to unhook any engine wires.

I just unhook the 8 wires off the terminal block up front....pull the power to the horn, unhook the plug to the brake master cylinder......and when I unhook the steering shaft, I also unhook the ground jumper wire to the steering box side which supplies the ground signal for the horn activation.

It makes it really easy to work on the buggy since I pull it apart every winter for ....."Upgrades"...... Wink Rolling Eyes Cool

That has translated to adding fuel injection and turbo but now I have another 30 wires to disconnect under the hood for the FI. All that wiring runs alongside the 8 primary engine wires.
I have added a lot of wiring in those upgrade years.....

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I think that's right....it's been almost ten years since it's been a N/A carb engine.

All the blinkers, brake lights, tow lights and body related wires run in a loom along the side of the body held with harness clamps JB Welded to a little block for a screw to go into to hold a harness clamp. My buggy did not have a tube going along the side.

Take some time to think it out......it's not too difficult.
I used a 67 Volkswagen bug wiring diagram since it was the first year of the 12 volt and it is a really simple system. I did use the original switches, taillights and front blinkers along with the horn.

There's lots of ways to do it. Pick a way that works for you....you can always change it since it will become an obsession and you will want to work on it all the time improving it.
Make sure you get your significant other to ride along with you and if you can put a smile on her face you will be in like Flynn and can upgrade all you want if you tell her it's for "her" comfort and enjoyment...... Rolling Eyes Wink Laughing
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 10:54 am    Post subject: Re: Wiring Reply with quote

Thanks everyone.

I want to limit screws and clamps as much as possible. The comment above about glassing it in has me thinking... Idea
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Dale M.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 11:30 am    Post subject: Re: Wiring Reply with quote

wardvwracer wrote:
Thanks everyone.

I want to limit screws and clamps as much as possible. The comment above about glassing it in has me thinking... :idea:


IF body is off chassis, flip it over and go for it....

I glassed in some 1/2 PVC pipe across back for tail lights/turnsignal wiring and also use "glass" to support flex conduit down side of one buggy build...

ALSO if putting wiring in tube, pull in ALL your wires at once (plan ahead on what's needed) it's miserable to try to add a wire into conduit when it is already filled with wire....

Dale
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 11:43 am    Post subject: Re: Wiring Reply with quote

I had time to track down some old photos of glassing in those PVC conduits.

Used a MAP gas torch and slowly heated the pvc until it became wet noodle like and molded it to the shape of the underside. And glassed in.



Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


But if that flexible stuff is compliant, does not spring back up while glassing, I am going to try that in the future. Or maybe even pool hose like Bruce did.
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Everyone is gifted. Some just do not open the package.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 1:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Wiring Reply with quote

On my first buggy I ran the wiring on the right side of the body up under the rolled top. I didn't have a tube in place so I had it zip tied in 3 places.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

If you look on the right side you can see the short black line on the body side just right of the passenger seat in the photo. There was another one towards the front just behind the dash and the 3rd location was in between those locations. Just a bit of the smooth part of the panduit showed in the car, the head was under the body lip. The wiring ran in split zip tubing, seen on many of the buggy pictures in this thread. If you notice a small screw on the body side there was another one up front too. They held clamps in place to support a neon tube on each side. That was also up under the body lip so only visible when lit.

You could route the wiring either with the panduits like I did, or you could copy the 2 small stainless button head screws and mount a tube to route the wiring. Just offering a couple of my ideas.
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Dale M.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 5:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Wiring Reply with quote

joescoolcustoms wrote:
I had time to track down some old photos of glassing in those PVC conduits.

Used a MAP gas torch and slowly heated the pvc until it became wet noodle like and molded it to the shape of the underside. And glassed in.



Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


But if that flexible stuff is compliant, does not spring back up while glassing, I am going to try that in the future. Or maybe even pool hose like Bruce did.


Great showing of how to.... But I think flex conduit is easier if someone what just wants a duct, NOT discounting the stiffener concepts the rigid PVC adds.....

Dale
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