Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts New!  See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
Pertronix or Magna Spark
Page: 1, 2, 3  Next
Forum Index -> Performance/Engines/Transmissions Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Skidmark 1
Samba Member


Joined: January 09, 2021
Posts: 11
Location: engineer
Skidmark 1 is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 6:45 am    Post subject: Pertronix or Magna Spark Reply with quote

I am running a 2006cc engine that I built myself with twin dell 40's and a SVDA Accuspark ignition distributor, was considering changing to either a Pertronix or a Magna Spark 2 distributor.
I find that the engine runs fine and has done about 1000 miles but its a pain to start if not run for a week, It has a Huco low pressure fuel pump feeding the carbs

Whats people views and experience on the distributors??
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Glenn Premium Member
Mr. 010


Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 70447
Location: Long Island, New York, USA
Glenn is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 7:17 am    Post subject: Re: Pertronix or Magna Spark Reply with quote

The Accuspark is a Chinese copy of the Bosch 034 with an electronic points replacement.

Most likely you're not getting enough vacuum from the carbs for the vacuum advance.

Which Pertronix? Their SVDA copy of their MSD copy? The SVDA copy is no better than the one you have. The MSD copy has the top plate that the weights and rotor mount to crimped to the mainshaft. This crimp can loosen and cause poor running or complete failure. (i've seen it personally).

That leaves the CB Magna Spark. I'd get the digital version so you can tailor the curve to exactly what your engine needs.

If you post engine specs such as cam, heads and compression we can better help.

Also toss that exhaust, it's not helping the engine run its best.
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"

Cast Iron and Aluminum distributors rebuilt since 2000.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Alstrup
Samba Member


Joined: July 12, 2007
Posts: 5159
Location: Videbaek Denmark
Alstrup is online now 

PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 7:42 am    Post subject: Re: Pertronix or Magna Spark Reply with quote

If it starts easy "the next morning" but not after a week, it is most likely not your ignition that is the problem.
_________________
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=435993
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Skidmark 1
Samba Member


Joined: January 09, 2021
Posts: 11
Location: engineer
Skidmark 1 is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 7:54 am    Post subject: Re: Pertronix or Magna Spark Reply with quote

Alstrup wrote:
If it starts easy "the next morning" but not after a week, it is most likely not your ignition that is the problem.


So what would you say it is then?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Skidmark 1
Samba Member


Joined: January 09, 2021
Posts: 11
Location: engineer
Skidmark 1 is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 8:08 am    Post subject: Re: Pertronix or Magna Spark Reply with quote

Engine spec, Autolinea case, 78mm counter balance crank, 200mm lightened and balanced fly wheel, 90.5mm barrels and pistons, Engle 110 cam with straight cut cam gears, 30mm oil pump with external cartridge filter, CB 040 heads, 1.25 -1 rockers, Huco 4 PSI electronic fuel pump, original twin 40 Dellortos refurbished with choke 32 main 140 idle 55 pump 35-40 emulsions 9164.2 and air 180. colour tuned compression 9.0-1
When it is running it goes very well no flat spots and pulls like a train, so much so I have fitted a new gearbox with a 3.88 ratio, will pull 80mph no problem.
Everything was new when I built it even down to the 55amp alternator and 55ah battery


Last edited by Skidmark 1 on Sun Jan 10, 2021 4:16 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
APPLEGREENVW
Samba Member


Joined: November 30, 2003
Posts: 1858
Location: Seekonk,Massachusetts USA
APPLEGREENVW is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 8:53 am    Post subject: Re: Pertronix or Magna Spark Reply with quote

Skidmark 1 wrote:
Alstrup wrote:
If it starts easy "the next morning" but not after a week, it is most likely not your ignition that is the problem.


So what would you say it is then?

Look here.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/search.php
_________________
Parts for sale https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/search.php?username=APPLEGREENVW

02/76 Beetle sedan
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Skidmark 1
Samba Member


Joined: January 09, 2021
Posts: 11
Location: engineer
Skidmark 1 is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 9:05 am    Post subject: Re: Pertronix or Magna Spark Reply with quote

APPLEGREENVW wrote:
Skidmark 1 wrote:
Alstrup wrote:
If it starts easy "the next morning" but not after a week, it is most likely not your ignition that is the problem.


So what would you say it is then?

Look here.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/search.php


So you don't have a clue then, ahh well hopefully someone on here might have come across or experienced the problem.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Alstrup
Samba Member


Joined: July 12, 2007
Posts: 5159
Location: Videbaek Denmark
Alstrup is online now 

PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 9:09 am    Post subject: Re: Pertronix or Magna Spark Reply with quote

Skidmark 1 wrote:
Engine spec, Autolinea case, 78mm counter balance crank, 200mm lightened and balanced fly wheel, 90.5mm barrels and pistons, Engle 110 cam with straight cut cam gears, 30mm oil pump with external cartridge filter, CB 040 heads, 1.4 -1 rockers, Huco 4 PSI electronic fuel pump, original twin 40 Dellortos refurbished with choke 32 main 140 idle 55 pump 35-40 emulsions 9164.2 and air 180. colour tuned compression 9.0-1
When it is running it goes very well no flat spots and pulls like a train, so much so I have fitted a new gearbox with a 3.88 ratio, will pull 80mph no problem.
Everything was new when I built it even down to the 55amp alternator and 55ah battery
WOOW! - youre running 1,4 rockers on a W110 cam??? I hope you have some serius valve springs in there to control that.
It can be anything from a lazy key switch to a half broken wire to ???
_________________
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=435993


Last edited by Alstrup on Sat Jan 09, 2021 9:11 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Skidmark 1
Samba Member


Joined: January 09, 2021
Posts: 11
Location: engineer
Skidmark 1 is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 9:09 am    Post subject: Re: Pertronix or Magna Spark Reply with quote

Glenn wrote:
The Accuspark is a Chinese copy of the Bosch 034 with an electronic points replacement.

Most likely you're not getting enough vacuum from the carbs for the vacuum advance.

Which Pertronix? Their SVDA copy of their MSD copy? The SVDA copy is no better than the one you have. The MSD copy has the top plate that the weights and rotor mount to crimped to the mainshaft. This crimp can loosen and cause poor running or complete failure. (i've seen it personally).

That leaves the CB Magna Spark. I'd get the digital version so you can tailor the curve to exactly what your engine needs.

If you post engine specs such as cam, heads and compression we can better help.

Also toss that exhaust, it's not helping the engine run its best.


How does not getting enough vacuum cause starting issues? the engine was timed at 30 degs at 3500rpm with the vac hose disconnected and plugged, when connected will get over 40degs when reved over 3500 rpm
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
APPLEGREENVW
Samba Member


Joined: November 30, 2003
Posts: 1858
Location: Seekonk,Massachusetts USA
APPLEGREENVW is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 9:10 am    Post subject: Re: Pertronix or Magna Spark Reply with quote

Skidmark 1 wrote:
APPLEGREENVW wrote:
Skidmark 1 wrote:
Alstrup wrote:
If it starts easy "the next morning" but not after a week, it is most likely not your ignition that is the problem.


So what would you say it is then?

Look here.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/search.php


So you don't have a clue then, ahh well hopefully someone on here might have come across or experienced the problem.
Look for your answer. Rolling Eyes
_________________
Parts for sale https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/search.php?username=APPLEGREENVW

02/76 Beetle sedan
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
vwracerdave
Samba Member


Joined: November 11, 2004
Posts: 14126
Location: Deep in the 405
vwracerdave is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 9:15 am    Post subject: Re: Pertronix or Magna Spark Reply with quote

What plugs are you running and what are they gapped at?

I agree changing distributors is not gonna solve your issue.

You are throwing away at least 10 HP running that dual exhaust.
_________________
2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK
Featured in Dec. 2001 HOT VW's Magazine page 63

Watch my racing video's http://www.youtube.com/user/okvwracer/videos
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
oprn
Samba Member


Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 6271
Location: Canada
oprn is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 9:28 am    Post subject: Re: Pertronix or Magna Spark Reply with quote

Painfully simple.

Think fire triangle.

You need air, spark and fuel to run. We can eliminate air, you have enough spark to run all day after it starts so that leaves...


.... and what does a cold engine need more of to start but not so much afterward to run? Hint - it's not air or spark generally.
_________________
I never finish anything, I have a black belt in partial arts!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Skidmark 1
Samba Member


Joined: January 09, 2021
Posts: 11
Location: engineer
Skidmark 1 is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 9:40 am    Post subject: Re: Pertronix or Magna Spark Reply with quote

oprn wrote:
Painfully simple.

Think fire triangle.

You need air, spark and fuel to run. We can eliminate air, you have enough spark to run all day after it starts so that leaves...


.... and what does a cold engine need more of to start but not so much afterward to run? Hint - it's not air or spark generally.


I was thinking that I possibly was not getting a good quality of spark when starting, that could lead me to plugs, leads, dizzy and coil, I have heard but might be wrong that the likes of the Magna Spark 2 distributer with coil and leads produce a good spark at start up, I am going to change the dizy that I have fitted with the Accuspark electronic module and coil and wanted to know peoples experience with the Pertronix flame thrower ignitor and the Magna Spark 2
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Tom snowden
Samba Member


Joined: October 29, 2015
Posts: 24
Location: San Jose
Tom snowden is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 10:24 am    Post subject: Re: Pertronix or Magna Spark Reply with quote

I have the Magna Spark on my 1915 dual Weberís same issue. Itís lack of fuel after sitting that long it evaporates Iíve figured out. When I get in pump pedal a few times then let off, and crank it over a few times. I do this maybe twice then bang it starts. Donít give it gas while doing this or it will flood and not start. Itís my trick and now works every time! Sorry itís not technical but it works for me.itís not spark. Good luck
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
jeffrey8164
Samba Member


Joined: January 06, 2018
Posts: 2490
Location: Georgia
jeffrey8164 is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 10:49 am    Post subject: Re: Pertronix or Magna Spark Reply with quote

Iím running a Pertronix II coil, plug wires and module in a chrome oh-oh-nine (094). I bought the whole kit but since people say their distributor is crappy, I put the module in my 094.
Engine is a 2276, Web 86a with CB 1.4 rockers, 044 Super Mags and dual 45 Dells with a Carter rotary pump and a Revolution Electronics controller. On startup after a week Iíll cycle the pump a couple times, press the throttle 3 times then hold to the floor and crank. Starts right up. That is learned behavior.
Without that procedure, it was hard to start.
My engine ďpulls like a trainĒ too but I always say it runs like a scalded cat.
My criticism is that the boots on the Pertronix plug wires get hard quickly (unlike myself these days) and ride up the wire so they donít seal the plug hole anymore. Also the distributor o-ring that comes with it sux.
I also have a MagnaSpark II on my shelf but I havenít played with it yet.
_________________
ďLet he that is without oil throw the first rodĒ
(Compression 8.7:1)

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=696460&highlight=rose
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Skidmark 1
Samba Member


Joined: January 09, 2021
Posts: 11
Location: engineer
Skidmark 1 is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 10:56 am    Post subject: Re: Pertronix or Magna Spark Reply with quote

jeffrey8164 wrote:
Iím running a Pertronix II coil, plug wires and module in a chrome oh-oh-nine (094). I bought the whole kit but since people say their distributor is crappy, I put the module in my 094.
Engine is a 2276, Web 86a with CB 1.4 rockers, 044 Super Mags and dual 45 Dells with a Carter rotary pump and a Revolution Electronics controller. On startup after a week Iíll cycle the pump a couple times, press the throttle 3 times then hold to the floor and crank. Starts right up. That is learned behavior.
Without that procedure, it was hard to start.
My engine ďpulls like a trainĒ too but I always say it runs like a scalded cat.
My criticism is that the boots on the Pertronix plug wires get hard quickly (unlike myself these days) and ride up the wire so they donít seal the plug hole anymore. Also the distributor o-ring that comes with it sux.
I also have a MagnaSpark II on my shelf but I havenít played with it yet.


Thanks for that, very useful information especially cycling the pump and holding to the floor
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Tom snowden
Samba Member


Joined: October 29, 2015
Posts: 24
Location: San Jose
Tom snowden is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 11:00 am    Post subject: Re: Pertronix or Magna Spark Reply with quote

Sorry donít hold to floor leave it up! Holding to floor makes it worse I found. Just pump then no gas at all.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
Paul Jr
Samba Member


Joined: July 20, 2018
Posts: 302
Location: PA
Paul Jr is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 11:57 am    Post subject: Re: Pertronix or Magna Spark Reply with quote

I was told holding to the floor will sometimes help if you have flooded the engine.
Something about it canít get any more fuel from the carb with the throttle wide open and the engine turning at only the RPM the starter is able to crank it at.

With an electric fuel pump, my engines fires right up by turning the ignition to run for about 30 seconds to ensure the float Bowles are full then about a 1/3 pump of the pedal ( just one pump) then hit the starter.
It seems to fire every time and most times needs no throttle at all to stay running but when itís real cold I do need to feather the pedal lightly for about 90 seconds before it idles without stalling.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
clonebug
Samba Member


Joined: January 29, 2005
Posts: 3381
Location: NW Washington
clonebug is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 12:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Pertronix or Magna Spark Reply with quote

It might seem expensive to some but a megasquirt or microsquirt for ignition only would be the best investment anyone could make for a long term spark solution.
Most distributors sold today new or used are more than likely junk.
Cry once and then you can giggle every time you have to read a distributor related thread.
Iíve had MS for 9 years now and never had one issue with spark....
46,000 miles..... same coil, same wires, no distributor needed......ever!!!!😉🙄😎
The hidden secret???? You can upgrade to FI once you get sick of the carbs......
_________________
vwracerdave wrote:

Take a good long look in the mirror and report back on what you see.


Paul.H wrote:
That one line on that chart is probably better info than you can get from this place in a month



My Megasquirt Fuel Injection Turbo Buggy Build
(Now with Water/Alcohol Injection)
Upgraded to MS-2 Extra direct fire wasted spark

http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=127936
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
flat4olsen
Samba Member


Joined: February 20, 2014
Posts: 298
Location: Denmark, Europe
flat4olsen is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 12:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Pertronix or Magna Spark Reply with quote

Glenn wrote:
The Accuspark is a Chinese copy of the Bosch 034 with an electronic points replacement.

Most likely you're not getting enough vacuum from the carbs for the vacuum advance.

Which Pertronix? Their SVDA copy of their MSD copy? The SVDA copy is no better than the one you have. The MSD copy has the top plate that the weights and rotor mount to crimped to the mainshaft. This crimp can loosen and cause poor running or complete failure. (i've seen it personally).

That leaves the CB Magna Spark. I'd get the digital version so you can tailor the curve to exactly what your engine needs.

If you post engine specs such as cam, heads and compression we can better help.

Also toss that exhaust, it's not helping the engine run its best.

CB Magnaspark digital is NLA. They finally found out, that they donít work as they should. Tried 3 of them and all of them failed.
If the OP doesnít experience stumble, I would suspect, that the 034 clone gets the vacuum it needs to pull the vacuum advance.
I would guess, that the problem is fuel related,- a lot of fuel evaporates from the fuel bowl after a week of still stand.... The fuel pump needs to fill the bowls, before the carbs can deliver fuel to the heads
I use this relay to prime my carbs before starting. Also works as a safety relay: https://www.revolutionelectronics.com/Products/Fuel_Pump.html
_________________
Type 1 1968, Lotosweiss. 2109 oxyboxer engine
Early Bay 1970, Montana Red. Under construction
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Performance/Engines/Transmissions All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page: 1, 2, 3  Next
Page 1 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2020, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB