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Dannys
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Joined: September 18, 2012
Posts: 46
Location: North Carolina
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 Posted: Sun Jan 10, 2021 3:56 pm Post subject: Issue with flasher-turn signals on my 63 DC. HELP! |
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Hello everyone! Happy New Year.
I have been struggling with the turn signals on my 63 double cab... everything works good other than the speedo light (blue cable). When the ignition is off, the speedo light is constantly on, but when the ignition is on, the speedo light is off and working correctly. I already tried a different 268 flasher relay and it did the same thing. I spent the entire day cleaning grounds and connections from the entire speedo, emergency relay, ignition switch etc, and still doesn't work properly.
Looks to me that the flasher (K) shouldn't have power all the time and for some reason it does. Attached is a quick video of the issue. Clearly i'm not an electrician and am hoping for some guidance because i've already tried everything.
Link
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vwuguy 
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Joined: November 01, 2005
Posts: 1053
Location: southwestern ontario, on and netherlands and bc
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| Posted: Sun Jan 10, 2021 5:23 pm Post subject: Re: Issue with flasher-turn signals on my 63 DC. HELP! |
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its grounding on relay left side.
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Eric&Barb
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Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24735
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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telford dorr
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Joined: March 11, 2009
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Location: San Diego (Encinitas)
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| Posted: Sun Jan 10, 2021 11:37 pm Post subject: Re: Issue with flasher-turn signals on my 63 DC. HELP! |
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| Dannys wrote: |
| Looks to me that the flasher (K) shouldn't have power all the time and for some reason it does. |
It's not supposed to:
Note the black/white/green wire feeding full-time power to the flasher relay "+" terminal. Thus, a trick relay is used that only grounds the "K" terminal. Sounds like yours is also applying power to it. I'm thinking wrong relay, either by part number or incorrect manufacture). If you can't find the correct relay, you can cheat and insert a diode (1N400x, x = 1 to 7; electronic parts store) in the blue (?) wire from the "K" terminal to the indicator light, with the band end of the diode to the "K" terminal. The diode acts like a check valve, keeping power from flowing from the flasher to the indicator but allowing power to flow from the indicator to the flasher.
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More VW electrical at http://telforddorr.com/ (available 9am to 9pm PST) |
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Dannys
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Joined: September 18, 2012
Posts: 46
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 8:07 am Post subject: Re: Issue with flasher-turn signals on my 63 DC. HELP! |
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Thank you Eric, I saw that you have the Hella 91MS2J2 x 18W-6V flasher and worked good for you but also saw that you were showing some others with different parts numbers? do I have to use that specific one or do I have options? Asking because so far the one you had success with can’t find it anywhere.
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Dannys
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Joined: September 18, 2012
Posts: 46
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 8:09 am Post subject: Re: Issue with flasher-turn signals on my 63 DC. HELP! |
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| telford dorr wrote: |
| Dannys wrote: |
| Looks to me that the flasher (K) shouldn't have power all the time and for some reason it does. |
It's not supposed to:
Note the black/white/green wire feeding full-time power to the flasher relay "+" terminal. Thus, a trick relay is used that only grounds the "K" terminal. Sounds like yours is also applying power to it. I'm thinking wrong relay, either by part number or incorrect manufacture). If you can't find the correct relay, you can cheat and insert a diode (1N400x, x = 1 to 7; electronic parts store) in the blue (?) wire from the "K" terminal to the indicator light, with the band end of the diode to the "K" terminal. The diode acts like a check valve, keeping power from flowing from the flasher to the indicator but allowing power to flow from the indicator to the flasher. |
Thank you very much for your advice, I will test that diode tonight and also will keep searching for the correct relay for this thing. I appreciate it! |
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vwuguy
Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2005
Posts: 1053
Location: southwestern ontario, on and netherlands and bc
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ToolBox
Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2004
Posts: 3439
Location: Detroit, where they don't jack parts off my ride in the parking lot of the 7-11
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| Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 10:53 am Post subject: Re: Issue with flasher-turn signals on my 63 DC. HELP! |
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| Dannys wrote: |
Hello everyone! Happy New Year.
I have been struggling with the turn signals on my 63 double cab... everything works good other than the speedo light (blue cable). When the ignition is off, the speedo light is constantly on, but when the ignition is on, the speedo light is off and working correctly. I already tried a different 268 flasher relay and it did the same thing. I spent the entire day cleaning grounds and connections from the entire speedo, emergency relay, ignition switch etc, and still doesn't work properly.
Looks to me that the flasher (K) shouldn't have power all the time and for some reason it does. Attached is a quick video of the issue. Clearly i'm not an electrician and am hoping for some guidance because i've already tried everything.
Link
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Are you still 6 volt or converted to 12 volt? |
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Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24735
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 10:57 am Post subject: Re: Issue with flasher-turn signals on my 63 DC. HELP! |
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| Dannys wrote: |
Thank you Eric, I saw that you have the Hella 91MS2J2 x 18W-6V flasher and worked good for you but also saw that you were showing some others with different parts numbers? do I have to use that specific one or do I have options? Asking because so far the one you had success with can’t find it anywhere.
Thank you |
Well that is the only one, that we can vouch that works. With the schematic on the side of that relay hopefully someone with better electronic experience can come up with a modern replacement. You could post on that thread and see if someone can do that.
The other way to sort that out might be to enter the terminal designations in a WWW search and see what pops up.
Only other way is to wire it up with the common modern relay used in early beetles and buses, but then the E-flasher system only works with ignition switched on. Which all too often can result in burnt points when engine is turned off for more than a few minutes if points are closed, so no spark at the spark plugs when you go to drive off. That can be avoided by disconnecting the distributor condenser wire off the coil, but that means another step just after shutting down and again before starting... Did all of that for years, till found the relay on that other thread that works. Stock functioning relays do show up in the classifieds, just have to search often looking at images for those terminal designations. If you go thru that other thread you will see the terminal designations changed from letters to numerals later on, so one needs to search the WWW and classifieds for both.
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vwuguy
Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2005
Posts: 1053
Location: southwestern ontario, on and netherlands and bc
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| Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:28 am Post subject: Re: Issue with flasher-turn signals on my 63 DC. HELP! |
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what the original wiring looks like on late 62 early 63
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vwuguy
Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2005
Posts: 1053
Location: southwestern ontario, on and netherlands and bc
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| Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:30 am Post subject: Re: Issue with flasher-turn signals on my 63 DC. HELP! |
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if you changed from 6 to 12v that does't make any differnece it just flashes faster, you can add a 12v to 6v drop in the main wiring if you want
https://www.cip1.ca/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=ACC-C10-5754
If you run a wire rom the flasher to the speeo like you did and hooked it up as positve instead of negative then it keeps the signals on when your driving..
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Eric&Barb
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Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24735
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:34 am Post subject: Re: Issue with flasher-turn signals on my 63 DC. HELP! |
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Matter of fact in that other thread on page 2 is a search we posted for the later terminal designations and it still results in many possibilities including 12 volt and 6 volt relays, and even LED compatible relays that will work fine with the stock incandescent bulbs that require more Wattage than LEDs.
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Eric&Barb
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Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24735
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 1:55 pm Post subject: Re: Issue with flasher-turn signals on my 63 DC. HELP! |
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Just a few minutes ago used the part number off the NOS relay box in the other thread in a WWW search. Put a "VW" a space and then the part number without the spaces in the part number. So you get "VW XXXXXXXXX", and leave off the letter suffix. Found a lot of interesting results, and even one in thesamba classifieds in NOS condition.
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Dannys
Samba Member
Joined: September 18, 2012
Posts: 46
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:49 pm Post subject: Re: Issue with flasher-turn signals on my 63 DC. HELP! |
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| Dannys wrote: |
| telford dorr wrote: |
| Dannys wrote: |
| Looks to me that the flasher (K) shouldn't have power all the time and for some reason it does. |
It's not supposed to:
Note the black/white/green wire feeding full-time power to the flasher relay "+" terminal. Thus, a trick relay is used that only grounds the "K" terminal. Sounds like yours is also applying power to it. I'm thinking wrong relay, either by part number or incorrect manufacture). If you can't find the correct relay, you can cheat and insert a diode (1N400x, x = 1 to 7; electronic parts store) in the blue (?) wire from the "K" terminal to the indicator light, with the band end of the diode to the "K" terminal. The diode acts like a check valve, keeping power from flowing from the flasher to the indicator but allowing power to flow from the indicator to the flasher. |
Thank you very much for your advice, I will test that diode tonight and also will keep searching for the correct relay for this thing. I appreciate it! |
I guess that Diode did the work! Crazy but it did work! Thank you my friend 🙏🏼 |
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Dannys
Samba Member
Joined: September 18, 2012
Posts: 46
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:51 pm Post subject: Re: Issue with flasher-turn signals on my 63 DC. HELP! |
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| ToolBox wrote: |
| Dannys wrote: |
Hello everyone! Happy New Year.
I have been struggling with the turn signals on my 63 double cab... everything works good other than the speedo light (blue cable). When the ignition is off, the speedo light is constantly on, but when the ignition is on, the speedo light is off and working correctly. I already tried a different 268 flasher relay and it did the same thing. I spent the entire day cleaning grounds and connections from the entire speedo, emergency relay, ignition switch etc, and still doesn't work properly.
Looks to me that the flasher (K) shouldn't have power all the time and for some reason it does. Attached is a quick video of the issue. Clearly i'm not an electrician and am hoping for some guidance because i've already tried everything.
Link
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I’m still 6v but looks like is fixed now with a little diode before K terminal from the relay. It’s not the right flasher but it does works properly now.
Are you still 6 volt or converted to 12 volt? |
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Dannys
Samba Member
Joined: September 18, 2012
Posts: 46
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:53 pm Post subject: Re: Issue with flasher-turn signals on my 63 DC. HELP! |
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| vwuguy wrote: |
what the original wiring looks like on late 62 early 63
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Looks like a little diode before the K flasher fixed my issue, still think I need the correct flasher for emergency lights and turn singals because 268 doesn’t work without the diode. |
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Dannys
Samba Member
Joined: September 18, 2012
Posts: 46
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 5:04 pm Post subject: Re: Issue with flasher-turn signals on my 63 DC. HELP! |
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| Eric&Barb wrote: |
| Just a few minutes ago used the part number off the NOS relay box in the other thread in a WWW search. Put a "VW" a space and then the part number without the spaces in the part number. So you get "VW XXXXXXXXX", and leave off the letter suffix. Found a lot of interesting results, and even one in thesamba classifieds in NOS condition. |
Hey Eric, thank you for the info.
This is the one you are talking about on Classified that you posted on page #2?
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1408062
It’s different than yours but you believe this one will work as well for emergency lights and turn signals? Thank you |
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Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24735
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 5:50 pm Post subject: Re: Issue with flasher-turn signals on my 63 DC. HELP! |
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| Dannys wrote: |
| Eric&Barb wrote: |
| Just a few minutes ago used the part number off the NOS relay box in the other thread in a WWW search. Put a "VW" a space and then the part number without the spaces in the part number. So you get "VW XXXXXXXXX", and leave off the letter suffix. Found a lot of interesting results, and even one in thesamba classifieds in NOS condition. |
Hey Eric, thank you for the info.
This is the one you are talking about on Classified that you posted on page #2?
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1408062
It’s different than yours but you believe this one will work as well for emergency lights and turn signals? Thank you |
No that is used-untested, pick it up if the terminal numbers match. The NOS = NEW OLD STOCK, as in unused.
This one:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2116851
If the used one works or can be cleaned up to work, then you can have the NOS one on the shelf for the spare.
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Dannys
Samba Member
Joined: September 18, 2012
Posts: 46
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2021 4:44 pm Post subject: Re: Issue with flasher-turn signals on my 63 DC. HELP! |
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| Eric&Barb wrote: |
| Dannys wrote: |
| Eric&Barb wrote: |
| Just a few minutes ago used the part number off the NOS relay box in the other thread in a WWW search. Put a "VW" a space and then the part number without the spaces in the part number. So you get "VW XXXXXXXXX", and leave off the letter suffix. Found a lot of interesting results, and even one in thesamba classifieds in NOS condition. |
Hey Eric, thank you for the info.
This is the one you are talking about on Classified that you posted on page #2?
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1408062
It’s different than yours but you believe this one will work as well for emergency lights and turn signals? Thank you |
No that is used-untested, pick it up if the terminal numbers match. The NOS = NEW OLD STOCK, as in unused.
This one:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2116851
If the used one works or can be cleaned up to work, then you can have the NOS one on the shelf for the spare. |
Eric, I just want to make sure, this 91ES4J2 x 18W - 6 works exactly the same than yours even though is a complete different series number?
Thank you |
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Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24735
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2021 7:13 pm Post subject: Re: Issue with flasher-turn signals on my 63 DC. HELP! |
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| Dannys wrote: |
Eric, I just want to make sure, this 91ES4J2 x 18W - 6 works exactly the same than yours even though is a complete different series number?
Thank you |
If that is the NOS one, can not guarantee that relay will work. Going off that has the same terminals designations, and the original part number. Since those are the same, should work the same.
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