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Komissar
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 12:17 pm    Post subject: Question about using a roller bending machine Reply with quote

Hello dear forum members and a "Happy New Year!".

I have decided to post this non-VW question here, because I could not find any answer on the internet and I do not know anybody with any experience working such machines and hopefully some of you do.

I have decided to build myself some sort of semi-portable car-shelter out of metal arches and a fabric covering. As such, I have attempted to bend the arches out of 3/4 inches round tube using a hand operated roller bender. It was my first time ever. I have purchased the bender a year ago, but never used it Smile

As such, my first attempt ended in disappointment. As the arch was created the pipe started to twist no matter how much I have tried to guide it by hand. In the end I have ended with something that resembled a section of a coiled spring.

Does anybody know how can I prevent this from happening? As in to make a proper "straight" arch?

Thank you.

Photo of my "twisted" arch:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Photos of the roller bender i have used:

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Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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c21darrel
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 5:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Question about using a roller bending machine Reply with quote

Perhaps not the reply you seek...
I dont think you will find any fabric that will last more than a couple years at best. I used one of the Costco car garages, when the fabric was toast, I used corrugated metal roof. 7 years trouble free. These frames are all over, i picked up 2 for free, they just wanted it gone.
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LAGrunthaner
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 7:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Question about using a roller bending machine Reply with quote

c21darrel, I've seen yours and I haven't made mine yet, I may in the spring. I don't know how the hundreds of pounds of wet ice and snow kept mine form caving in.

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c21darrel wrote:
Perhaps not the reply you seek...
I dont think you will find any fabric that will last more than a couple years at best. I used one of the Costco car garages, when the fabric was toast, I used corrugated metal roof. 7 years trouble free. These frames are all over, i picked up 2 for free, they just wanted it gone.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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c21darrel
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 7:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Question about using a roller bending machine Reply with quote

lol, in SoCal the snowfall is measured in teaspoons.
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Letterman7
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 8:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Question about using a roller bending machine Reply with quote

Well, having some experience with roller benders, the primary cause of your failure is not having the correct dies for the machine. You must have the proper shape and size for the size tubing you want to use. Those dies that you have in there now are generic and are only meant to curve very short lengths of conduit type metal, not heavier gauge steels. If there is any slop side to side, you're going to get a spring shape.

The only way to work with what you have now is to do it with three people - two to hold the infeed and outfeed perfectly straight as a third person spins the wheel and applies the pressure. Even then, you will likely have issues.
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Komissar
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 11:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Question about using a roller bending machine Reply with quote

Letterman7 -> Thank you for your input. Unfortunately these are the dies I have to work with. Smile I will try getting one or two friends to help me out with keeping the pipe straight.

Any advice regarding how I can ameliorate the problem by doing (or not doing) certain things when bending? Such as start position, going both directions or just only one direction and manually re-setting the pipe (and using some indexing marks) for the other pass?



Now, about the fabric cover itself, i know it is not the most ideal thing, but there are situations when you cannot use anything more than that or else it might start to look like a garage or some sort of shed, and it might be inappropriate in the eyes of some people Smile
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2021 7:43 am    Post subject: Re: Question about using a roller bending machine Reply with quote

So funny, you kill me c21darre teaspoons of snow, the best! I'm visualizing it now.
I would move back to my native SoCal in a heartbeat but unfortunately that will lead to divorce.

c21darrel wrote:
lol, in SoCal the snowfall is measured in teaspoons.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2021 7:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Question about using a roller bending machine Reply with quote

Komissar wrote:
Letterman7 -> Thank you for your input. Unfortunately these are the dies I have to work with. Smile I will try getting one or two friends to help me out with keeping the pipe straight.

Any advice regarding how I can ameliorate the problem by doing (or not doing) certain things when bending? Such as start position, going both directions or just only one direction and manually re-setting the pipe (and using some indexing marks) for the other pass?



Now, about the fabric cover itself, i know it is not the most ideal thing, but there are situations when you cannot use anything more than that or else it might start to look like a garage or some sort of shed, and it might be inappropriate in the eyes of some people Smile


Tough call. It all depends if you're trying to do a full arch or just corners. If you minimize the length, you'll minimize the errors. Personally, I wouldn't try to do a full arch - I'd roll "corners" as best as I could, then weld those onto straight pieces. Otherwise, start in the middle, add a little pressure, then go both directions about a foot at a time, going outwards each time before you add more pressure. If you can build some sort of boxed "slot" to help contain the pipe as far out on either side as you can (make it as tight as possible to the pipe, even to the point that it's touching the pipe), you might be able to keep it straight(er) with one person. Alternately... look for someone in your area that has an exhaust pipe bender that you can pay for them to turn the tubes for you.
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modok
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2021 8:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Question about using a roller bending machine Reply with quote

Perhaps you could purchase conduit or muffler tubing the right size for the dies it has.
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vwsplitman
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2021 3:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Question about using a roller bending machine Reply with quote

Speaking of tarps or covers, I purchased a long time ago(25 years) some vinyl signs used on billboards. These were huge when opened up. Able to cut them with scissors and out of one piece got 6 that would each cover a VW bug easily. Used them thru the years for car covers, firewood covers, engine and tranny covers. None have any damage as far as shreading, holes, ripping etc. I notice there is a company that has periodic ads on Facebook with a similiar product. A little more costly than the cheap tarps, but will last forever. They even have grommets around the perimeter for tie downs. Just a thought.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2021 4:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Question about using a roller bending machine Reply with quote

When the twisting happens does it always go the same way? (to the right for example?), it could be as simple as shimming one of the rollers to one side with washers a little.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2021 4:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Question about using a roller bending machine Reply with quote

We have 2 home made frames for our car storage, and we've been storing cars in them for 15 or so years. Heavy duty vinyl tarps last between 3-5 years. I switched them both to PVC last year , we'll see if they get a longer life.
The biggest killer is the sun, it degrades the tarp until you can see the coating start to flake off, then you have a limited time to change it before the wind rips it to shreds. Supposed to get 80-120km winds tomorrow, never a problem, but the tarps are pulled tight and screwed down under some aluminum 3/4" angle strips
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Bulli Klinik
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2021 4:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Question about using a roller bending machine Reply with quote

You can build a metal or wooden guide to keep the pipe going in and coming out of the roller. Think of it as sandwiching the arcing pipe. Or just do it very carefully with a friend on the other end. I’m familiar with the problem.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Question about using a roller bending machine Reply with quote

c21darrel wrote:
lol, in SoCal the snowfall is measured in teaspoons.


Rain weight accumulating in the tarp will collapse the tubing! BTDT
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2021 3:25 am    Post subject: Re: Question about using a roller bending machine Reply with quote

Managed to finish my temporary car cover.
In the end I have used Letterman7's suggestion of using only rounded smaller sections as corners for the frame.
I have also made a video of it and how it fits over my VW Type 3.
I have designed and tested it with a full canvas cover, in case I need to store the car during a rainy period, but usually I will used the shelter with a smaller tarp covering the roof only.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNCm_KZdotw
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2021 4:36 am    Post subject: Re: Question about using a roller bending machine Reply with quote

Nice video , hope you do not get a lot of snow, that roof tarp will sag , being flat like that.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2021 6:02 am    Post subject: Re: Question about using a roller bending machine Reply with quote

Nice job!
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2021 7:34 am    Post subject: Re: Question about using a roller bending machine Reply with quote

calvinater wrote:
Nice video , hope you do not get a lot of snow, that roof tarp will sag , being flat like that.


Hy, thanks for liking the video and the car shelter.
Although I do hope that the snow will not be so severe, I did account for rainfall and light snow by not putting any horizontal rails between the upper corners of the main sections comprising the frame. Thus, the canvas is only supported by the horizontal "backbone" in the middle, but the laterals drop down in between the frame sections, and thus any water will go down to the sides (and hopefully some snow as well).
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