Annie-other Subaru Swap - Build Thread

[skills@eurocarsplus]

subaru had (has?) updated pistions/rings for these.

i almost did this on a 230k bottom end i was going to use for a project. anyway...adding up all the parts...still cheaper to get a short block from subaru.

i want to say rings alone from subaru were like 400+

granted, there are alternatives. i simply will NOT use aftermarket for internals if it's available at the dealer.

since i have adapted the practice at my shop i haven't had 1 comeback for anything in 5 years.

unless it's a full out monster build, i can't bring myself to use anything but OE parts
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[scirocco_crazy]

Have you all seen these tablet based Speedos? I wonder how well that could be incorporated in the stock dash hole. I love the gauges that Annie is getting though.

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Current Build 1976 VW Bus Subaru with EZ36 https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9443081#9443081
Second Current Build 1979 Porsche 911SC
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=10117349#10117349
Previous Builds 78 Westy with matching trailer
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=589790&highlight=westy
78 Bay with Acura 3.2 Type S engine
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=516038&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

[scirocco_crazy]

I second the OEM angle, the engineering behind these parts are well beyond the aftermarket. With that being said there are some situations that the cost and or performance requires the aftermarket. Brakes are a perfect example. I always use OEM pads and rotors for a street car, for a monster build then oversized aftermarket are the only way to go. Just my two cents.

[deathman68]

[Merling]

Look forward to seeing the belly mount setup.

[deathman68]

Total Spend to-Date: $9881.85

I've been getting nickel and dimed to death these past couple of weeks as my meticulous nature has turned into a seemingly endless quest for perfection in order to clean up, repair, or replace parts that no one will ever see. The fact that the Subaru spent most of its time on salted roads has led to bloodied knuckles, snapped bolt heads, and the use of a LOT of PB-Blaster and my BFH. That said, my thorough nature paid off in spades since while media blasting the coolant bypass tube, I learned that it had two holes in it, something that wouldn't have been discovered until I tried to pull vacuum on the cooling system prior to filling it.

I've actually enjoyed tearing down the manifold since I've learned a lot about how the top end functions on these EJs.
Before:

During (fun with media blasting and powder coating):

After. All metal parts media blasted, degreased, and powder coated with satin black:

In this last pic, I was merely mocking up the intake using the old bolts and hoses. I can't imagine how anyone would put this back together without replacing all the fuel and vacuum lines with new ones. Picked up all new hoses and I went ahead and put new injector seals on as well along with new plug wires.

Tonight, I started to tear into the trans. Like everything else, I was met with resistance, but eventually got the shifter u-joint off and popped the nose cone and center diff off. Not much light in my garage-less backyard:

Somewhat unsurprisingly, I found a bunch of metal shards after pulling the nose cone:

My best guess is that these came off the inside surround of the nose cone since the gears appear to be in good shape. I will tear into it further in the coming days and report back with any significant findings. I drove the Subaru extensively prior to tear down, and didn't observe any unusual noises or problems shifting. More to come.
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1973 Riviera “Annie”
Build Thread: 1973 Riviera+Subaru 2.5+5 Speed
EJ25+5 Speed Conversion Part/Cost Tracker

[panel]

Wonder if you could do something like this for your throttle body ?


Link

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My '65-Subaru EJ20 Turbo conversion

[deathman68]

Progress continues. The case teardown and subsequent build-up is an arduous process which is greatly played down on the Subarugears instructional videos in interest of time.

Checking factory backlash is within spec prior to splitting the case:

Got the pinion drive assembly disassembled:

NOTE: The new pinion does NOT slip right into the assembly as shown in the Subarugears video. It is a press-fit which since I don't have a press, required thumping it on its head on a block of wood to drive the pinion face surface into place with the gear assembly. Fantastic arm workout. I also learned the hard way that since it's not a simple slip fit, rotating the front splines to align with the Subaspool that locks the assembly together is NOT possible once you've press fit everything together. Apart it all came again. Then put it all back together.

Used my engineering straight edge to dial in the pinion depth tool and set to zero using 0.65mm combo of existing shims.

Then onward to case clearancing:

Oops. NOTE: Invest in cut-resistant gloves! My 4" grinder slipped and went 90 degrees about 1/4" into the tip of my right index finger. Super glued it back together and kept grinding. There is a LOT of material that needs to be removed from the ribbing. Trial and error and a couple hours of grinding got me just enough clearance for the ring gear with bolts installed. The pic below is before I smooth out all the grinds on the ribbing to reduce potential stress points.

Got the whole thing back together and onward to setting the zero backlash point by turning in/out the conical adjusters. There seem to be several different schools of thought on the best way to do this since in the end, it's really just a question of feel and then confirming using the yellow gear grease. If anyone wants some tips/tricks here, feel free to let me know. I spent HOURS checking, rechecking, re-rechecking. Backlash showed 0.16mm once everything was adjusted and bearing preload set so back apart it all came.

Here's the semi-final product:

I'm pretty content with the pattern as a semi-first-blush attempt (after assembling and disassembling the trans half a dozen times. I'm going to go down 0.2 on shims to put me in the 0.45 sweet range recommended by Todd at Subarugears. This probably sounds like Chinese to the uninitiated, but believe me, you will be an expert on transmissions when you are done!
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1973 Riviera “Annie”
Build Thread: 1973 Riviera+Subaru 2.5+5 Speed
EJ25+5 Speed Conversion Part/Cost Tracker

[deathman68]

Let’s hope that the juice was worth the squeeze. Took me two weeks of an hour here or there each night and I lost count of how many times I had to pull it apart and put it back together (at least 20 times). In the end I take solace in knowing that I acquired a new skill and will have the knowledge to fix the trans if ever needed while on the road.

And my short block showed up:

Amazingly it was packaged like this and survived the trip from Washington state to Miami FL.
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1973 Riviera “Annie”
Build Thread: 1973 Riviera+Subaru 2.5+5 Speed
EJ25+5 Speed Conversion Part/Cost Tracker

[deathman68]

Been wrenching a few minutes here and there since my last post. Got the trans buttoned up and dry fit to determine which parts to notch:

I cleaned up the cuts, epoxy primered, and reapplied body schutz after this last pic.

Then I kept rolling on the long block build-up. At this point everything finally starts going together like Legos:

I always like the way it looks before you cover up the timing belt.

Long block is done. Have to work out a couple kinks with my Tribeca alternator (ie. pulley swap from the old alt) and also modify the oil pressure sender for my Speedhut gauges since it hits the back of the alternator.

This weekend, weather permitting, I'll bolt the whole shebang together and dry fit so I can get the engine mount (stock subaru) drilled/bolted. Will also mount the fuel filter and coolant ball..basically trying to make all the necessary holes before I yank it and finish paint.
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1973 Riviera “Annie”
Build Thread: 1973 Riviera+Subaru 2.5+5 Speed
EJ25+5 Speed Conversion Part/Cost Tracker

[Dibaltic]

Great job on that motor it looks better than new

[Merling]

Glad you're still at it. Will be learning from you as I do mine.

[hometurbine]

I also want to complement you on the documentation and updating the spreadsheet.

I'm going to commit to my build in the next month or so and using your spreadsheet as a baseline is very helpful place to start. I'm going with the VW transmission (to start anyway). I'd like to see you drive that Southwest short-block before I commit, but I may have to take the leap....right now I'm looking for a local machine shop to restore my heads.

Thanks
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Bill
'75 Westy Bus with Subaru EJ25 engine
GE CT58-100 helicopter gas turbine
Tiernay TT10 APU gas turbine

[skills@eurocarsplus]

[airschooled]

Preheat the vise, Don. More effective.
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Learn how your vintage VW works. And why it doesn't!
One-on-one tech help for your Volkswagen:
www.airschooled.com

[deathman68]

Firstly, no genital mutilation required...remind me to wear a cup if our paths ever cross Skills

The oil pump mating surface was further cleaned/degreased before installing the new OEM oil pump.

Thanks for the nice comments all. It's been a labor of love and often frustration. The short block from Sunwest runs marginally cheaper than a new short block from Subaru. There is generally no substitute for OEM with rare, limited exceptions, so I won't go down that road today. Instead, I'll tell you the two reasons why I went with Sunwest:

1. I did a LOT of reading prior to pulling the trigger on the short block. I spoke to the suppliers of all the non-OEM internals and cruised the Subaru forums ad nauseam. I spoke to Sunwest at length as well as several customers, and I got a warm fuzzy from them. Several customers told me that they have easily done 150k+ miles without incident. It will take me years to get to 150k miles, so it's not as important to me to make it to the 200k+ mark like the OEM would likely do if properly maintained.

On the other hand, when I spoke to the Subaru tech about changes in OEM piston/ring design and known issues (rod knock/bearing failure, piston skirt damage, oil burning etc etc), I did NOT get a warm fuzzy. Basically he said that Subaru continues to use two different designs in their short block internals and they have seen the occasional complaint/failure. He couldn't tell me how to identify which is which (which BTW I find hard to believe given the Kaizen approach to engine building), so that was a turn off for me.

2. Maybe I'm getting sensitive/sentimental after a year of quarantine, but I liked the idea of supporting a family run business, even if it has grown significantly in its 30+ year history. Every time I called Sunwest, I got to speak to a REAL person. Try that with Subaru. Worst case, my engine blows up and I'll have the excuse I need to build that monster STI engine that keeps calling my name.

They are calling for rain this weekend, so looks like Sunday will be my best shot at fitting the engine/trans. I fully expect to be doing more notching to accommodate the already modded coolant pipe, so I've got my PPE ready. More to come..
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1973 Riviera “Annie”
Build Thread: 1973 Riviera+Subaru 2.5+5 Speed
EJ25+5 Speed Conversion Part/Cost Tracker

[Shonandb]

Been following your thread. Nice work! I did the swap last year in my 76 Westy Automatic and love it. Upgraded to an 86 Vanagon Automatic transaxle though to have the transmission cooler and installed an external cooler. I used the heater and A/C fan unit from the Subaru under the back seat and piped it through the floor and up to the front through an insulated 3" duct. I extended the wiring harness up to the front so I could use the heater controls, radio, speedometer cluster and have temp gauges on the inlet and outlet of the rad (belly set up). It was so nice hearing it start up for the first time!
DB

[skills@eurocarsplus]

[hometurbine]

Good discussion,
so to add comparisons/details, for me (EJ251) it's between the OEM reman, which is ~$2,000...
https://parts.busamsubaru.com/p/subaru__/REMANUFACTURED-SOHC-Short-Block/72824032/SOA478H400R1.html

or the Sunwest, which is about $1400 (inc. ship).
https://www.sunwestautoinc.com/product/subaru-ej25-short-block-2-5l-sohc-1996-2011/

I'm not sure what Sunwest's specific warranty is for a short block (haven't called them), but for Subaru reman it was 3 years.
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Bill
'75 Westy Bus with Subaru EJ25 engine
GE CT58-100 helicopter gas turbine
Tiernay TT10 APU gas turbine

[hometurbine]

Oh, forgot to add to what Skills said about going new. They didn't have any new versions of my Impreza EJ251, but if I go with what Vee Dub Nut did and get a Forester 2.5L, then $1850 + ship for a new one, P/N 10103AB390, with only minor differences.
https://www.subarupartwholesale.com/p/Subaru__Forester/Engine-Short-Block/49223006/10103AB390.html
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Bill
'75 Westy Bus with Subaru EJ25 engine
GE CT58-100 helicopter gas turbine
Tiernay TT10 APU gas turbine