Another new guy resurrecting a trail rail....

[baarf]

I just acquired this frame and I want to build a trail/desert rig out of it.

I am going to post pics as I go and ask lots of questions as I have learned much just reading through here

Starting with brakes as it is missing just about everything.

[baarf]

I am going to start with the brakes. Does anyone recognize this disc brake set up?
The hub is marked with a VW (figures) and it is for the 4 lug version

The inside of the rotor is marked
AG-D6 5
5L 10
Min th
9.0 mm

Looks like the seals are out around the stub shaft (I think that is the right term) and maybe need to replace bearings while I'm at it since I have no idea how old they are. A little loose but nothing is tight here so could be good.

So if you recognize this disc brake set up I can order calipers etc and install a new system!
Front wheels are (?) spindle wheels with no brake hardware at all. Not sure if I need to put any in since this will be a light weight trail wandering machine

Thank you!
Mike (me)

[jsturtlebuggy]

Hi, welcome to the Samba.
Looking at your pics the rear hubs are from a type 3. They were used on 1966 to 1973 type 3 rear brake drums. Drums bolted on the separate hub. The rotors appear to be Porsche 914. This was a common setup used for many years. The center hubs were machined to fit inside rotors. The calipers that were used were from the front of a type 3 or Ghia.
They work from what I heard from those that use them.
_________________
Joseph
Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA
Elrod Motorsports
Motion Tire Motorsports
Having fun with Dune Buggies since 1970
Into Volkswagens since 1960

[oprn]

My sand rail has rear brakes only as well. We use it for trail riding too but I got myself into a bad situation with it while descending into a lake in the back country. The trail in was very steep and the rear tires were locked up trying to slow down but I was picking up speed! The only way to prevent going headlong into the lake was to put the car sideways and there was barely enough room between the trees!

I am in the market for front brakes now!!
_________________
We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age)

[baarf]

[jsturtlebuggy]

Ok so someone did a reverse mounting of rotors to hub. That is different then what I have seen.
If it works, that is what matters. Not everyone has access to tools such as a lathe, so they use what is available.
_________________
Joseph
Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA
Elrod Motorsports
Motion Tire Motorsports
Having fun with Dune Buggies since 1970
Into Volkswagens since 1960

[baarf]

Well you learn something new every day.....

The rotors are only 9 inches. (no seriously..) so finding a replacement caliper is a problem. The Ghia calipers cannot reach or fit into the space so what ever was done before has to go......

I am going to use the Empi set for a chevy 5 lug setup. It has everything and with a bit of cut and weld I can have a fairly modern setup that actually has a parking brake. I know some folks don't think I need one but there was little price difference so what the heck....
I will post pics later after I get crazy with a cutting wheel.......

[oprn]

You will not be sorry you have a parking brake.
_________________
We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age)

[dustymojave]

I favor a parking brake for a trail buggy too. My Hi Jumper has had a parking brake since the beginning in the 1970s.

My old pal had the T3 hub/914 rotor rear brakes on his 4 seater for years. Worked well.

Lots of guys with buggies who are accustomed to sand dunes think in terms of no front brakes. And for there it works. But for desert trails, forests, on/off pavement/ and for general use, I strongly recommend installing good front brakes. They don't need to be fancy. VW Bug Type 1 front brakes are fine. They may even need a little proportioning valve in the line from the master cylinder to balance them with the rears since a light front end buggy on dirt is likely to lock up the front brakes very quickly if the brakes are balanced like normal automotive brakes.
_________________
Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet.

[baarf]

I am using the Empi kit, and I just decided to pile in and cut/weld until things fit. After cutting in I did box in the cut so I hope it's as strong as before. Everything looks good in the test fit.

[baarf]

Of course I did break off the big bolt that holds the pivot on the trailing arm. Now I just need to figure out how to get in there and get the broken piece out...

[baarf]

oprn, Dusty Mojave, I agree, and I got the kit that has the parking brake option. Not much more and really, why not?

Thank you all for your input!

[jsturtlebuggy]

Ouch! Removing the rest of the pivot broken pivot bolt is not going to be easy.
The thread pitch of bolt is 14x1.5mm.
_________________
Joseph
Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA
Elrod Motorsports
Motion Tire Motorsports
Having fun with Dune Buggies since 1970
Into Volkswagens since 1960

[baarf]

I may have to cut a hole on the inside of the horn to get enough room to drill it

Oh I am having fun already.....

[Vanapplebomb]

I have done it with a 90 degree air drill before. I had to cut a stubby bits even shorter though. It had a 3/8 chuck, so that was as big as I could drill. By that time I had removed enough material that after a few good knocks, I was able to back it out with a reverse spiral ez out. Don’t force a reverse spiral ez out. If you crack it, your in trouble.
_________________
1800 Type 4 Berrien 295

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=487021

[baarf]

[dustymojave]

And when you've gone to all that effort to get the broken bolt out and gotten ready to put it together, i recommend using anti-sieze on the threads to prevent a future revisit.
_________________
Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet.

[Scruffy Buggy]

Glad to see you have your priorities in order.

One of the FB groups I'm in had a post a while back that said he had his new to him buggy running great but it had no brakes. I told him I would have made it stop BEFORE I made it go.

[oprn]

[baarf]

Well the fun continues...

I did cut a hole in the back of the horn to access the bolt. Drilled and worked with a bolt extractor, heat, PB Blaster etc and no happiness in sight.

So since I have come this far, just to make it easy on myself, does anyone know the bolt size and thread? I may as well just drill it out and re-thread the darn thing...