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2.1 MV rebuild
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90weekender
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2020 2:58 pm    Post subject: Re: 2.1 MV rebuild Reply with quote

J,

The text from the GW web site would suggest the 96mm pistons are cast...not forged. Did you buy the early sets of 96's that were forged?

https://www.gowesty.com/tech-article-details.php?id=82

"We use two companies to make our pistons: Silv-O-Lite for cast pistons and JE for forged pistons. We started out with forged pistons in all of our engines even though they were over-kill for the lower performance examples. As the volume of engines we produced increased, we reached a point where we could justify having our own, proprietary casting and forging. All the while, it was possible to further refine an already excellent German piston design by using state of the art alloys and a more modern "slipper skirt" shape. By contrast, the “competition” is still just copying the original, 30+-year-old design piston, and doing a poor job at that.

Fun (sad) fact: The first batch of cast pistons we received and used in our own engines had a higher than normal failure rate, and we ended up having to replace about 10% of them under warranty. Ironically, it had nothing to do with the switch from forged to cast, but rather was a problem with the coating that was used on the sides!"

R
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90weekender
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2020 4:29 pm    Post subject: Re: 2.1 MV rebuild Reply with quote

So I see 2 engine spec scenarios I'd like to get feedback on:

Scenario 1: "power now" (never to be turbocharged in future)
NOS DJ pistons
CB 2252 cam
knock sensor

Scenario 2: "OEM turbo-ready" (but strong enough to be turbocharged in future)
NOS pistons and liners
Aftermarket MV-like cam (which cam?)

I'd love your inputs.
R
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hdenter
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2020 8:13 am    Post subject: Re: 2.1 MV rebuild Reply with quote

Which way you should go is going to depend on what risks and compromises you are willing to live with...

DJ engines are solid and proven (lots of them in europe) and with the cautionary inclusion of a knock sensor should provide a nice bump in power. Better fuel economy, too. Nothing too complicated, a conservative choice.

A turbo ready motor sends you down a path towards a more significant and exciting power improvement. However, that trail has several potential pit falls... The first is that we could be old and gray(grayer) before Marco or somebody else finally puts out a proven and reliable kit with good long term parts/maintenance support. The second is that an after market or home grown turbo system will add additional layers of technology that can fail and/or be temperamental to tune. The one guy did his Volvo turbo swap that I admire and has been reliable, but are you prepared to do all that work yourself?

My DJ pistons are destined for my work van where I want more power, better fuel economy and dependability. My turbo aspirations are for my daily driver or the UFWW(ultimate frankenstein westy weekender). If one of those breaks down, I will still have an other set of wheels to get me around.

We all go to hell, just pick out the hand basket you want to get there in🤔

Hans
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jberger
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2020 10:15 am    Post subject: Re: 2.1 MV rebuild Reply with quote

90weekender wrote:
So I see 2 engine spec scenarios I'd like to get feedback on:

Scenario 1: "power now" (never to be turbocharged in future)
NOS DJ pistons
CB 2252 cam
knock sensor

Scenario 2: "OEM turbo-ready" (but strong enough to be turbocharged in future)
NOS pistons and liners
Aftermarket MV-like cam (which cam?)

I'd love your inputs.
R


I would NOT run a 2252 cam with DJ pistons 10.5:1.. too much dynamic CR. I would run properly measured MV pistons and cylinders (don't have to be new) with a 2252 and have happily done so many times. It is a nice combo. Get it running reliably and forget about it.

J
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90weekender
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2020 2:43 pm    Post subject: Re: 2.1 MV rebuild Reply with quote

Hdenter, I agree the Turbo-ready route is a longer game with more unknowns.

The DJ cam is the same as an MV...so I would need to find an aftermarket cam close to an MV.

Called Heritage and they are pessimistic about their new MV cam supplier delivering any time soon.

To reduce unknowns I've contacted MansiSpeed wrt a cam choice that will be "turbo-ready". They are saying both the CB Eagle 2252 and a reground MV cam will work well with their 1.35 rockers and turbo kit.

GW cams are regrinds. Not sure the spec.
Vangain cams look OE on the site but are 3 bolt cams.
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90weekender
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2020 6:26 pm    Post subject: Re: 2.1 MV rebuild Reply with quote

Crank case breathing looks like a problem on HC WBX that can be solved with aftermarket systems like Mann Provent.

However, I've not seen a single picture of a WBX with one installed. Also, if I chose to install one, I'd like it to be "OE Stock" specification.

This video of Oettinger 3.2s shows a very stock looking breather system but with an added couple of parts off to the right of the alternator. Anyone know if this is worked well? Can it be purchased?

R


Link
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90weekender
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 6:00 pm    Post subject: Re: 2.1 MV rebuild Reply with quote

Happier New Year All,

I've decided to keep the engine stock but add 1.35 ratio rockers. Why?

- Excellent examples of original spec vans are very rare and deliver a totally unique and desirable driving experience.
- This van is in excellent condition and is better kept stock.
- Modding my van to meet modern expectations in the high sierras and mountain passes requires a different drive train.
- A pickup truck with camper setup is better suited for adventures in the American wild.
- This "stock" van will pass German TUV inspection if we want to explore the EU.

As I go through the Muir book, I am taking photos of each step. Here are some highlights:

Clean case and threads: Should I put epoxy on the "bung" holes?
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Verifying fit of standard size KS bearings: BTW - I dropped the little dowel pin down the oil tunnel...it fell out easily with gravity by turning the case upside down. Phew!
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I put a new brass timing gear on (Van Cafe)...I marred the original pulling it off.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Last edited by 90weekender on Fri Jan 15, 2021 5:48 pm; edited 5 times in total
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90weekender
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 6:06 pm    Post subject: Re: 2.1 MV rebuild Reply with quote

I've purchased NOS rods and new 1.9 non-stretch bolts ($220 shipped). I've searched the forum but have not found a guide to remove the 2.1 TTY bolts from the NOS rods and installing the new 1.9 bolts.

Is this work my machinist should do? I thought it should be easy enough to do at home...but I' usually underestimate the complexity of everything I do on this beast.

NOS 2.1 rods with TTY bolts (Cosmolene rubs off with DW-40 or mineral oil)
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


New 1.9 Rod bolts
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



R


Last edited by 90weekender on Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:56 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Robw_z
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 11:28 pm    Post subject: Re: 2.1 MV rebuild Reply with quote

90weekender wrote:


This video of Oettinger 3.2s shows a very stock looking breather system but with an added couple of parts off to the right of the alternator. Anyone know if this is worked well? Can it be purchased?

R


Stating the obvious, but yes that is a catch can with a PCV valve. If there is no positive crankcase pressure it sucks from the fresh intake, if there is pressure it sucks from the catch can.

-Rob
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90weekender
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:50 pm    Post subject: Re: 2.1 MV rebuild Reply with quote

Thanks Rob for such a clear and concise explanation. I'm not an engineer or mechanic...so it's all pretty mysterious to moi.

Regarding rod bolts. I discovered a new way to search the forum (which I don't remember) but found a few many opinions on rod bolt theory...practical challenges...social implications and future policy SAE and Manufacturer recommendations...GAWD I love this forum! But in the end I was not clear how to remove them at home.

SOOO...a 3 minute chat with my Machinsto confirmed "Yes" I can knock out the bolts at home...pound in the new 1.9 bolts and he is happy to check and correct the ovality of my big ends. YAY!

I'm almost ready to start step 4 in Miurs book.

PS - fresh engine case hardware ready to go.
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16CVs Premium Member
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2021 12:32 am    Post subject: Re: 2.1 MV rebuild Reply with quote

.
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90weekender
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:27 pm    Post subject: Re: 2.1 MV rebuild Reply with quote

16cvs,

I appreciate your supremely concise comments, but suggest you opine a bit more lest your inputs be misinterpreted.
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16CVs Premium Member
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:34 am    Post subject: Re: 2.1 MV rebuild Reply with quote

,.
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1987 Syncro Westfalia Triple knob (bastard)
1989 Syncro Tristar Triple knob "Swedish"
2013 Jetta Hybrid a true "Zwitter"
Samba member # 14980
Call anytime number 650 722 4914 .
Keep Your van running and upkept tastefully for the love of the hobby.
Don't let your van end up in an "abortions" thread.
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dabaron
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:54 am    Post subject: Re: 2.1 MV rebuild Reply with quote

16CVs wrote:
,.


agreed.

looking forward to seeing this engine completed. vroom!
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