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haz77
Samba Member
Joined: December 12, 2013
Posts: 206
Location: NZ
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 Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 12:01 am Post subject: Over heating event |
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I think I experienced an over heating event today,
Took the fasty to drop the boy off at a B-Day party & shortly after, while doing a few jobs around town it started miss firing / dropped a cylinder.
Managed to nurse it across town to the in laws, had a cup of tea then checked the leads oils etc & noticed how bloody hot the engine was, started her up, which took a lot more turning over than normal & then all was well again.
So unless there was a loose plug lead I resolved by wiggling I guessing the engine got to dam hot, it was about 30-32'C out & the engine / parts were alomst to hot to touch even after being parked up for 20-30mins.
what's the best way to monitor engine temp? - Ive read about monitoring No3 cylinder head with a clip on sensor, is this the way to go or would an oil temp sender be better?
Cheers, engine specs below.
_________________
'71 Type 3 Fastback, Sunburst Yellow, Lowered on Riviera's.
1776cc, Fully balanced, 8 Dowel fly, W100, DRD L3 heads, 1:25-1 CB rockers, 8.2:1, Twin 34's, Elec fuel pump, Fuel press reg, Full flowed, Single Quiet pack. |
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old_man
Samba Member
Joined: June 19, 2018
Posts: 1381
Location: Newfoundland
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| Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 5:44 am Post subject: Re: Over heating event |
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| haz77 wrote: |
So unless there was a loose plug lead I resolved by wiggling I guessing the engine got to dam hot, it was about 30-32'C out & the engine / parts were alomst to hot to touch even after being parked up for 20-30mins.
what's the best way to monitor engine temp? - Ive read about monitoring No3 cylinder head with a clip on sensor, is this the way to go or would an oil temp sender be better?
Cheers, engine specs below. |
If I go for a long drive in the summer the engine components will be too hot to touch. Was that 20-30 min with the engine cover on or did you leave the engine cover off for that long?
To monitor oil temp. I use a probe that replaces the drain bolt.
Are all your tins in place? Is that big rubber bellow correctly install and secured on both ends? |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22410
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 10:53 am Post subject: Re: Over heating event |
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| old_man wrote: |
| haz77 wrote: |
So unless there was a loose plug lead I resolved by wiggling I guessing the engine got to dam hot, it was about 30-32'C out & the engine / parts were alomst to hot to touch even after being parked up for 20-30mins.
what's the best way to monitor engine temp? - Ive read about monitoring No3 cylinder head with a clip on sensor, is this the way to go or would an oil temp sender be better?
Cheers, engine specs below. |
If I go for a long drive in the summer the engine components will be too hot to touch. Was that 20-30 min with the engine cover on or did you leave the engine cover off for that long?
To monitor oil temp. I use a probe that replaces the drain bolt.
Are all your tins in place? Is that big rubber bellow correctly install and secured on both ends? |
Yup, if I just do a 15 minute ride in the summer, the engine case and tin will be too hot to touch. Keep in mind that the air temp is around 90+ degrees F, and you're heating that up to at least 175+, so it should be hot. If you can hear it detonating (spark knock) when it's hot, that should tell you it's too far advanced, and will overheat. Keeping in mind that there are causes to why an engine is overheating like too far advanced, running lean, too much compression, missing cooling tin, things like that. I know my own engine (stock 1600 dual carb in my Notch) will run for hours at a time on the freeway (I've done 16 hours straight coming back from Missouri) at speeds of 70-75mph.
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71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
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Jason37
Samba Member
Joined: April 21, 2004
Posts: 1028
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| Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 12:49 pm Post subject: Re: Over heating event |
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| What ignition system are you running? |
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haz77
Samba Member
Joined: December 12, 2013
Posts: 206
Location: NZ
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| Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 8:58 pm Post subject: Re: Over heating event |
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| old_man wrote: |
Was that 20-30 min with the engine cover on or did you leave the engine cover off for that long?
To monitor oil temp. I use a probe that replaces the drain bolt.
Are all your tins in place? Is that big rubber bellow correctly install and secured on both ends? |
Cover on.
Dont like the idea of anything that would be a risk of getting knocked off the sump.
Tin all in place, heat exchangers but not running the uppers, bellow is all good.
_________________
'71 Type 3 Fastback, Sunburst Yellow, Lowered on Riviera's.
1776cc, Fully balanced, 8 Dowel fly, W100, DRD L3 heads, 1:25-1 CB rockers, 8.2:1, Twin 34's, Elec fuel pump, Fuel press reg, Full flowed, Single Quiet pack. |
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haz77
Samba Member
Joined: December 12, 2013
Posts: 206
Location: NZ
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| Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 9:02 pm Post subject: Re: Over heating event |
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| Bobnotch wrote: |
| If you can hear it detonating (spark knock) when it's hot, that should tell you it's too far advanced, and will overheat. Keeping in mind that there are causes to why an engine is overheating like too far advanced, running lean, too much compression, missing cooling tin, things like that. |
No spark knock, it just dropped a cylinder / miss fired every now & then but would rev & run generally as normal.
Advance is +30', all tin etc on, I did read that performance engine's will run hotter, especially with a type3 & it was start stopping around town which would make it worse.
_________________
'71 Type 3 Fastback, Sunburst Yellow, Lowered on Riviera's.
1776cc, Fully balanced, 8 Dowel fly, W100, DRD L3 heads, 1:25-1 CB rockers, 8.2:1, Twin 34's, Elec fuel pump, Fuel press reg, Full flowed, Single Quiet pack. |
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haz77
Samba Member
Joined: December 12, 2013
Posts: 206
Location: NZ
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| Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 9:04 pm Post subject: Re: Over heating event |
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| Jason37 wrote: |
| What ignition system are you running? |
Aftermarket Dizzy with points, Bosch Black coil & leads.
_________________
'71 Type 3 Fastback, Sunburst Yellow, Lowered on Riviera's.
1776cc, Fully balanced, 8 Dowel fly, W100, DRD L3 heads, 1:25-1 CB rockers, 8.2:1, Twin 34's, Elec fuel pump, Fuel press reg, Full flowed, Single Quiet pack. |
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Jason37
Samba Member
Joined: April 21, 2004
Posts: 1028
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| Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 10:19 pm Post subject: Re: Over heating event |
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| Try changing your condenser. |
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Mike Fisher
Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2006
Posts: 17968
Location: Eugene, OR
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| Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 8:55 am Post subject: Re: Over heating event |
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The only time my '69 has overheated I lost power & stopped to find the bellows collapsed and blocking the cooling air!
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https://imgur.com/user/FisherSquareback/posts
69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
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Air_Cooled_Nut
Samba Member
Joined: March 27, 2004
Posts: 3040
Location: Portland, Oregon
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| Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 9:22 am Post subject: Re: Over heating event |
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In my experience, when an engine is over-heating it has a distinctive smell, literally like burning metal, but smellier. That is the definitive indication for me since all air-cooled engines will be too hot to touch.
_________________
Toby http://www.aircoolednut.com/
Did I mention that I'm an original Darksider?
'72 VW Squareback, 2007cc, GB 5-speed, rag top; '76 VW Riviera Penthouse Sundowner 2.0L; 2015 Audi S5 Cabby w/Stage II APR; '06 Ducati Sport Classic 1000; '14 Ducati Diavel Strada
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haz77
Samba Member
Joined: December 12, 2013
Posts: 206
Location: NZ
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| Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 10:51 pm Post subject: Re: Over heating event |
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Thanks all,
So it sounds more like it got a bit to hot rather than over heated per say, it was still idling well, was drivable & would accelerate out of the misfire, I thought either a lead was loose or a carb had flooded, once I re started & got out of town it was as good as new.
So the remaining question is what should I fir to monitor the temp, is a VDO oil temp guage the best?
Im sure I remember a post on here about using a aero industry clip on temp sender on No3 to monitor the hottest area on the engine?
_________________
'71 Type 3 Fastback, Sunburst Yellow, Lowered on Riviera's.
1776cc, Fully balanced, 8 Dowel fly, W100, DRD L3 heads, 1:25-1 CB rockers, 8.2:1, Twin 34's, Elec fuel pump, Fuel press reg, Full flowed, Single Quiet pack. |
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old_man
Samba Member
Joined: June 19, 2018
Posts: 1381
Location: Newfoundland
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| Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2021 2:34 am Post subject: Re: Over heating event |
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| haz77 wrote: |
So the remaining question is what should I fir to monitor the temp, is a VDO oil temp guage the best?
Im sure I remember a post on here about using a aero industry clip on temp sender on No3 to monitor the hottest area on the engine? |
You are thinking of cylinder heat temperature (CHT) probe that is washer shaped and goes under the spark plug.
There are common ways to measure temperature in an air cooled engine; the oil and the cylinder head. Each gives you a different piece of information. You're going to have to research and figure out which is best for you because it's a lengthy and old debate. |
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Air_Cooled_Nut
Samba Member
Joined: March 27, 2004
Posts: 3040
Location: Portland, Oregon
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| Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2021 12:36 pm Post subject: Re: Over heating event |
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Pick a temp method you want. As you drive you will get a feel for a baseline reading, what you consider acceptable. If you see the reading go too far from your baseline then you have something to work with.
_________________
Toby http://www.aircoolednut.com/
Did I mention that I'm an original Darksider?
'72 VW Squareback, 2007cc, GB 5-speed, rag top; '76 VW Riviera Penthouse Sundowner 2.0L; 2015 Audi S5 Cabby w/Stage II APR; '06 Ducati Sport Classic 1000; '14 Ducati Diavel Strada
The First Invasion |
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volksaddict
Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2003
Posts: 1724
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| Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2021 6:09 am Post subject: Re: Over heating event |
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| Jason37 wrote: |
| Try changing your condenser. |
WTF? Explain. |
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Jason37
Samba Member
Joined: April 21, 2004
Posts: 1028
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| Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2021 9:52 pm Post subject: Re: Over heating event |
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| volksaddict wrote: |
| Jason37 wrote: |
| Try changing your condenser. |
WTF? Explain. |
The misfire could be the cause of the over heating. A bad condenser can cause a misfire and weaker spark in general. Weaker spark means the engine is not operating efficiently resulting in increased heat being generated.
I learnt the hard way that just because something is new doesn’t mean it is good. Early this summer I had a misfire on my car after about 15 minutes of driving (I consider this the time to get the engine up to temp as early cars do not have a thermostat) at first I ruled out ignition as I had just replaced points, condenser, rotor and plugs. The first thing I checked my plugs and they were sooty, leading me to believe there was an issue with the fuel system. Since I had been running the carb for some time, I started with checking fuel pressure, it was good. Then I decided to check the valves, they too were in spec. Decided on a whim to start changing the ignition components back, and the first was the condenser. |
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