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Earliest brown faced speedo?
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sinclair
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 8:58 am    Post subject: Re: Earliest brown faced speedo? Reply with quote

Hereís a conundrum then.
My 100mm August 49 speedo has the larger Deluxe bezel. But itís in original brown paint, certainly never been chromed... so where does that fit in the chronology?


Last edited by sinclair on Fri Jun 26, 2020 2:53 am; edited 2 times in total
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:13 am    Post subject: Re: Earliest brown faced speedo? Reply with quote

john Henry wrote - So perhaps none of the three cars with brown face speedos at the March '49 auto show would have been considered "production" vehicles (which I think, is Zen's point) and actual use of the part in line production started 3 months later in June.
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when I make the corrections lists to the Car of the Century, I will include a note that the information in Garwood's volumes reflect production vehicles and only MAY reflect VW coach builds, like Hebmuller, Drews and etc. i'll bet this info was understood by Mr. Garwood, but a note is in order...
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sinclair
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 2:54 am    Post subject: Re: Earliest brown faced speedo? Reply with quote

sinclair wrote:
Hereís a conundrum then.
My 100mm August 49 speedo has the larger Deluxe bezel. But itís in original brown paint, certainly never been chromed... so where does that fit in the chronology?

Unfortunately the pod doesn't seem to have a date on the earth tab.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 7:46 am    Post subject: Re: Earliest brown faced speedo? Reply with quote

sinclair wrote:
sinclair wrote:
Hereís a conundrum then.
My 100mm August 49 speedo has the larger Deluxe bezel. But itís in original brown paint, certainly never been chromed... so where does that fit in the chronology?

Unfortunately the pod doesn't seem to have a date on the earth tab.


Some do not. Do you have a pic of the backside of your pod?
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sinclair
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 10:13 am    Post subject: Re: Earliest brown faced speedo? Reply with quote

johnshenry wrote:
sinclair wrote:
sinclair wrote:
Hereís a conundrum then.
My 100mm August 49 speedo has the larger Deluxe bezel. But itís in original brown paint, certainly never been chromed... so where does that fit in the chronology?

Unfortunately the pod doesn't seem to have a date on the earth tab.


Some do not. Do you have a pic of the backside of your pod?

Nothing that will help much at the moment. It had one of those mask the glass and paint inside and out resprays.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 2:36 am    Post subject: Re: Earliest brown faced speedo? Reply with quote

as we are talking about a car made in the early post-war years could there have been problems with parts supply causing anomalies like this to occur?
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 7:21 am    Post subject: Re: Earliest brown faced speedo? Reply with quote

There is an anecdote in the book "Kleiner Wagen in groŖer Fahrt", published in 1949, that a truck loaded with bearings and speedometer slipped into a river. The factory sent out a Volkswagen with staff and a diving equipment, the staff had never seen before. They dived after the speedometer and bearings, brought them to the factory how much they could find. The speedos have been thrown away immediately but they tried to save the bearings, putting them into oilbaths. But at the end, inspection marked them as waste... To the question, why they did such an effort, the answer was: "such goods have been in short supply" during that time.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 7:27 am    Post subject: Re: Earliest brown faced speedo? Reply with quote

not 100% relevant but here's my 53 barn door speedo that was repaired at some point by vdo I'm not sure on the age of the brown Bakelite pod it could be older than 53
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:07 am    Post subject: Re: Earliest brown faced speedo? Reply with quote

... Are the TYPE 2 brown pods and speedometers 95 mm or 100mms?
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:36 am    Post subject: Re: Earliest brown faced speedo? Reply with quote

ZENVWDRIVER wrote:
... Are the TYPE 2 brown pods and speedometers 95 mm or 100mms?


95mm, I have one right here and my NOS Barndoor Deluxe chrome-ringed speedo doesn't stick through the face.
It sits recessed downward.

Recessed
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Non-recessed
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:43 am    Post subject: Re: Earliest brown faced speedo? Reply with quote

its 95mm but sits on a rim on the inner which is 100/101mm the speedo is a 53 barndoor and I think the pod is a earlier beetle it is for my 53 barn door ambulance
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sinclair
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:14 am    Post subject: Re: Earliest brown faced speedo? Reply with quote

johnshenry wrote:
sinclair wrote:
sinclair wrote:
Hereís a conundrum then.
My 100mm August 49 speedo has the larger Deluxe bezel. But itís in original brown paint, certainly never been chromed... so where does that fit in the chronology?

Unfortunately the pod doesn't seem to have a date on the earth tab.


Some do not. Do you have a pic of the backside of your pod?


Here it is. Nothing on the earth strap but it has the piggy back fuse and cloth wiring. Key is P series.

I double chesked the bezal though. definately never been chromed.

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ZENVWDRIVER
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Earliest brown faced speedo? Reply with quote

Ö why do POs cut the wires of the harness, to the pods? I see lotza' Sinclair's cut also -The PO of my '50 cut mosta' the cloth-covered wires - I guess he thought that was easier and was gunna' replace the harness too - i'm not gunna replace, but will just splice in - just haffta' match the colors - since that car was mine, 40 years back, i know, it had a new harness, then - i'm sad he sorta' ruined a great harness...
Ö that car is in the Trust for our kid - he's not gunna' like my handiwork and will replace the harness again, i'll bet.
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5/50, pastel green 11G - SOLD
8/50, gray 11A Beetle
6/52, pastel green 11C - SOLD
11/4/52, black Zwitter - SOLD to my little bro.
1954 Porsche, pre A, with VW 36 horse- SOLD
1/54, black 11C Beetle - TRADED
2/55 Iceland green Beetle, on a 1965 pan
3/55 113 Beetle, stratos silver
1955 Messerschmitt KR175 - SOLD, sadly
1960 single cab
1962 SO33, with SO 42 interior
9/63 Pacific blue, Ghia
'87 Toyota MR2
'91 NSX- wishful thinking

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Earliest brown faced speedo? Reply with quote

sinclair wrote:
johnshenry wrote:
sinclair wrote:
sinclair wrote:
Hereís a conundrum then.
My 100mm August 49 speedo has the larger Deluxe bezel. But itís in original brown paint, certainly never been chromed... so where does that fit in the chronology?

Unfortunately the pod doesn't seem to have a date on the earth tab.


Some do not. Do you have a pic of the backside of your pod?


Here it is. Nothing on the earth strap but it has the piggy back fuse and cloth wiring. Key is P series.

I double chesked the bezal though. definately never been chromed.

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John can verify but I believe that the pods with the piggyback fuse are later parts and either came into effect in '52 or were only on later replacement parts.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 7:42 am    Post subject: Re: Earliest brown faced speedo? Reply with quote

splitjunkie wrote:


John can verify but I believe that the pods with the piggyback fuse are later parts and either came into effect in '52 or were only on later replacement parts.


Correct. Documentation shows the fuse piggybacked on the ignition switch came in '52.
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sinclair
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Earliest brown faced speedo? Reply with quote

johnshenry wrote:
splitjunkie wrote:


John can verify but I believe that the pods with the piggyback fuse are later parts and either came into effect in '52 or were only on later replacement parts.


Correct. Documentation shows the fuse piggybacked on the ignition switch came in '52.


And a deluxe 100mm bezel in brown painted bare metal?
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:18 am    Post subject: Re: Earliest brown faced speedo? Reply with quote

I believe there were a lot of changes going in March-June/July period when VW was developing their deluxe features. Since some of it was running changes, there was probably some inconsistencies. For the first ivory deluxe pods, perhaps, the brown pods were painted white, before the development of the all white bakelite pods were introduced.

The earliest Baketlite all ivory Pod I have seen was from September of '49. Perhaps someone on here has one with an earlier date. Or perhaps an original ivory painted '49 pod before 9/49 that has 90 mm hole. Few possible ivory pod scenarios:

1. All ivory bakelite with 100mm hole
2. All ivory bakelite with 90 mm hole (hmmm?)
3. Ivory painted brown bakelite with 100 mm hole
4. Ivory painted brown bakelite with 90mm hole
5. Some deluxe speedos had chrome, some did not.

Also, as Peter Schepmuller pointed out, the early deluxe knobs were ivory. Were they all ivory or painted ivory?

It's fun to try and figure this out without a time machine. Smile
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2020 11:20 am    Post subject: Re: Earliest brown faced speedo? Reply with quote

Well in the end I tidied it up to use what I have. Not point perfect but not too shabby either. Brown bezel paint is a Ford rattle can, close enough.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 4:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Earliest brown faced speedo? Reply with quote

Ö your '49 pod, looks fabulous!
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6/52, pastel green 11C - SOLD
11/4/52, black Zwitter - SOLD to my little bro.
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3/55 113 Beetle, stratos silver
1955 Messerschmitt KR175 - SOLD, sadly
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2021 6:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Earliest brown faced speedo? Reply with quote

johnshenry wrote:
sinclair wrote:
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My late July 49 Standard pod, given the deluxe bling at some point.


What is the speedo opening size? 95 or 100mm? looks like a brown painted chrome bezel, but a deluxe speedo bezel will not fit into a std pod.


Ok, back on this, and first I have to correct myself from what I said above. "a deluxe speedo bezel WILL fit into a std pod". There has always only been one SIZE of speedo bezel for deluxes or standards, only difference is stds are steel and painted brown (check with magnet), and deluxes are brass with chrome plating. But dimensionally, they are the same. You CAN put a deluxe bezel/speedo into a 95mm opening standard pod, but the bezel will not protrude through the face as the 2.5mm ridge will stop it.

In the 100mm deluxe pods, the ridge is not there, and the bezel (either one) will protrude through the bezel and be visible from the front. This is why on the std pods, the speedometer is held into the pod with M5 screws and washers, whereas on the deluxe pod, the speedo sits farther into the pod, and it is secured by M5 screws and those metal "L" tabs.

So the only real dimensional difference between the std and deluxe pods is the presence of that ridge inside the speedo opening. And again dimensionally, the std. and deluxe speedo bezels are the same.

Lastly, I just discovered in my stash another 4.49, April 1949 brown face speedo. This one has a chrome bezel, but also a "Repariert Durch VDO, Munchen" sticker on it. So did it start it's life as a chrome bezel/deluxe speedo, perhaps in the pre-production realm? Or was the chrome bezel added by VDO at some point after?
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