Roll cage building help

[thesatelliteguy]

That’s a solid gusset if I’ve ever seen one. But a bit pricy. Couldn’t I make that out of 1.5” and some plate steel? Ps, I have a plasma cutter.
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Toyotas are so bumpy it makes me sick, literally.

My build Page http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=383878

[L5wolvesf]

[dustymojave]

Roll gussets like shown in the Speedway Motors link seem nice and are VERY strong. My HiJumper originally had them in the top of the cage.

But that strength concentrates forces at the very edge of the gusset, much more than if there is no gusset. It makes the tube that you're gusseting tend to break right at the end of the gusset.

As a race car fabricator and Tech Inspector, I learned that a better cage gusset is a flat plate welded not at the centerline of the tubes, but flat on one face of the tubes.

The sketch above
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/2137736.jpg
has the curved edge of the gusset wrong. It should curve the other way so the ends of the gusset taper into the tube, as I said above:
"a curved line so the ends of the gussets taper to the tubes."

Those are off the shelf at the local metal supply gussets. I curved them to fit the situation.

A gusset like I show can be made as 3 pieces, so that you can weld along the tube and the edge of the gusset. Like shown in my pic, where the junction has 2 separate gussets welded to the main hoop and to the fore/aft tubes.

The gusset plates should be made of material similar in thickness to the wall of the tube, Like 1/8" plate is fine. Real thick gussets are not good.
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Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet.

[dustymojave]

More like these, also from Speedway Motors:

https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Roll-Cage-Chassis-B...79724.html

Since you're not talking about a 90° intersection, none of these off-the shelf gussets will work. But they'll provide the concept. You can drill lightening holes in yours like the Speedway ones. Won't affect strength. Speedway also offers them without holes.

https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Roll-Cage-Chassis-Bar-Steel-Weld-Gusset-Plates-30-Piece,379776.html

The curved edge is the point I'm trying to make here.
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Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet.

[cbeck]

I put 27 mm bars on my 3x3 arms. Too light, used almost all 12" of travel on the street. The couple of times I took it off road it hit the stops frequently. It is heavier than the normal rail, all the tubing from the a hoop back is 120 dom

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My cut in half and rebuild thread
www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=647779

[rayjay]

[cbeck]

Don't overlook the 30' of engine cage.

Verses normal rail. Figured maybe 250# more.

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My cut in half and rebuild thread
www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=647779

[rayjay]

That's 10 lbs.

[dustymojave]

[rayjay]

[cbeck]

He already had me fix a bad brake switch.
What does a typical rail have for a engine cage, maybe 12'?. Double roll bar vs single, cage x vs no x, double roof bars (4) vs the normal 2, more tubing for the nerf bars, all of the tread brite.Even add real suspension seats vs poly, it adds up quick.
My shocks had o rings on the shafts I was using to keep track of how far the shocks were compressing. 27 mm was too small for me, but thats not my problem anymore.
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My cut in half and rebuild thread
www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=647779

[dustymojave]

[cbeck]

I hear karma is a fickle b@&$h.
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My cut in half and rebuild thread
www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=647779

[Mal evolent]

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73 Beetle Baja, Ghia front brakes, Type 3 rear brakes, 2220 ( 94 X 80 ), Weber Progressive, Bosch SVDA, '97 Mustang seats

Baja Bugs for Volkswagen Virgins: Index

[rayjay]

There is a vid out that has a guy about to take is SO for a ride in a race car of some sort. There are no anti-sub belts and the shoulder harnesses have the lap belts pulled way up on the torso above the pelvis. Any hard crash will result in terrible internal injuries plus likely spine injuries.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SZ7zjsvPBQ

[thesatelliteguy]

Mal, that’s some good I formation. Thanks!

I keep forgetting to make the gussets.
I instead turned my attention to the front of the car and extending the beam 6” forwards.
I really like this design

Thoughts?

I decided to cut holes in the dash and kick panel and bend up some tube but I wasn’t very satisfied with the first one. I was so focused on making the notch correct, having the angle right, having enough clearance to weld it, etc. that I had completely forgot about making it level. So it sits a little funky.

It’s only tac welded on there so it’ll be easy to take out and try again.
Here’s a couple more pics of it.

_________________
Toyotas are so bumpy it makes me sick, literally.

My build Page http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=383878

[mr_bill]

A-POST to cage...

B-POST to cage

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see ya' on the trail........

"Mr Bill"
Dos Perros Motorsports
Orange, CA
1972 Class 11x/Stock Bug
'60's era "vintage" Tunnell-Buggy

"...no one here....get's out ALIVE...."

Motor = electric
Engine = internal combustion

www.facebook.com/groups/DosPerrosMotorsports
www.alrchapter132.org
www.DAV.org

[dustymojave]

[Dale M.]

[dustymojave]

Oh, and one other thing I was forgetting.

If you mount the crotch strap "slightly behind the chest line" as recommended in this page, you will find it rather uncomfortable in the groin. And if you NEED the belts, your groin will be the 1st part injured. The crotch strap needs to anchor slightly FORWARD of the chest line. It's purpose is to hold the lap belt down on your lap and resist the tendency of the shoulder straps to pull the lap belt up into your belly, where it will do serious damage.

Many, even in the seat belt industry like in this page, call the crotch strap an "anti-submarine" belt, suggesting that it's purpose is to keep one from sliding out under the lap and shoulder belts. Sitting upright as in an offroad car or a NASCAR or most drag cars, one does not need to worry about sliding out under the lap belt. But laying down in a formula car like F1 or Indy or even a Formula Ford, you DO need to worry about sliding out. So they use 6-point (rare these days) or 7 point belts which wrap around both upper thighs like a parachute harness. THOSE belts (not shown in the image) are for "anti-submarine". Even laying down in a formula car, you need to keep the shoulder straps from pulling the lap belt up into your belly, thus the 7 point, which uses the same crotch strap as the 5-point belt system.

In an offroad car, laying on your back like in an Indy car will quickly break your back. That's why it was tried in the late 60s, and not since. So we offroaders have no need to concern ourselves with "anti-submarine belts". But crotch straps are very important.
_________________
Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet.