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kingkarmann
Samba Member
Joined: November 05, 2003
Posts: 4111
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 Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 8:48 am Post subject: Re: Karmanns & Bring-a-Trailer Auctions |
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| John Moxon wrote: |
| Marcdeb wrote: |
| kingkarmann wrote: |
Nice look doesn't equate to well done. I knew I could count on you all to point out the shortcomings (and they very well should be) if someone is going to drop $25k+ on this  |
I'm surprised that this car is already up to $18k with 5 days left?? I get that the extra horse power adds value for some bidders, but the rest of the car is not going to hold up well over time. Seller just posted new pictures of the inside of the nose and it's obviously had some serious front end damage for which the repair work looks sub par, in addition to the rest of the body work that is poorly done. This car looks nice now, but is certain to show these body issues in time. |
It's always dangerous to generalise but BAT seems to attract people who want to buy into the hobby without really buying into valuable advice. Bling sells. |
I'm not sure the BAT buyers are discounting our advice. I think it's near impossible figure the motivations.
I'm as far from a KG purist as you can get. I tend to gravitate towards the "bling" if not too gaudy. I also hold in great esteem Ghia's that are very true in there original form as survivors or quality restorations.
I think we know the BAT audience is way more diverse than our little corner of the internet world. I believe it's much more likely a KG sold on BAT is going to someone who was not specifically looking for a Ghia in the first place.
Many of us KG enthusiasts have been involved with them long term and remember when they were just really cheaply priced cars. I have had a few in my life continuously since 1975. I've never owned any other A/C VW. The KG's I've owned are 67-70 models. I know very little about the nuances of a very early or very late Ghia. But we all know imperfect fit, finish and bodywork.
BAT's vetting process is a mystery too me. I guess they go by what interests them. What ends up making them so awesome as a platform to sell cars is folks like us who are "experts". Plus, they get are advice for free!
What I do know is that lately I spend to much time on BAT & Samba!
All in all, good (looking) Karmann Ghia's on BAT seem to do well. And that's good for Ghia owners 
_________________
"Depression is a malfunction of the instrument we use to determine reality.”
Mike Gerson
What is your "Bespoke Reality"? |
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myghiarocks
Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2009
Posts: 143
Location: DFW area Texas
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| Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 10:44 am Post subject: Re: Karmanns & Bring-a-Trailer Auctions |
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| kingkarmann wrote: |
| John Moxon wrote: |
It's always dangerous to generalise but BAT seems to attract people who want to buy into the hobby without really buying into valuable advice. Bling sells. |
I'm not sure the BAT buyers are discounting our advice. I think it's near impossible figure the motivations.
I'm as far from a KG purist as you can get. I tend to gravitate towards the "bling" if not too gaudy. I also hold in great esteem Ghia's that are very true in there original form as survivors or quality restorations.
I think we know the BAT audience is way more diverse than our little corner of the internet world. I believe it's much more likely a KG sold on BAT is going to someone who was not specifically looking for a Ghia in the first place.
Many of us KG enthusiasts have been involved with them long term and remember when they were just really cheaply priced cars. I have had a few in my life continuously since 1975. I've never owned any other A/C VW. The KG's I've owned are 67-70 models. I know very little about the nuances of a very early or very late Ghia. But we all know imperfect fit, finish and bodywork.
BAT's vetting process is a mystery too me. I guess they go by what interests them. What ends up making them so awesome as a platform to sell cars is folks like us who are "experts". Plus, they get are advice for free!
What I do know is that lately I spend to much time on BAT & Samba!
All in all, good (looking) Karmann Ghia's on BAT seem to do well. And that's good for Ghia owners |
Good points on BAT buyers
Ghia's are still relatively cheap in the collector car world. Even top notch examples are priced pretty good compared to many others. Sunbeam tigers used to go very cheap, not anymore.
Also not everyone is looking for that perfect example to use as a trailer queen or parade car. They might have $25000.00 to spend on a fun car for a few years of pleasure. The guys with deep pockets usually know what they are looking for. The average buyer is not overly concerned about the year and originality, especially on a Ghia that is so hard to tell the difference from 55-74. We all know those changes because we are nutty enthusiasts. Still not many Ghia's will qualify as investment worthy, some are getting close depending on the amount spent on purchase or restoration.
I am not an expert, I like them stock or modified. no judging from me. Buy what floats your boat.
Last edited by myghiarocks on Thu Dec 17, 2020 10:45 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Cal-Neva speed shop
Samba Member
Joined: August 01, 2012
Posts: 76
Location: Reno, NV
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| Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 10:45 am Post subject: Re: Karmanns & Bring-a-Trailer Auctions |
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Oh no. I got almost double for it then what it got bid to.
| John Moxon wrote: |
| Cal-Neva speed shop wrote: |
That was my car. It sold outside of eBay.
| kingkarmann wrote: |
I’m thinking the seller should think hard about that bid.... |
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Well $26700 was never going to buy a well sorted '56...hope you got what you wanted for it. |
_________________
1962 double cab
1963 double cab
1961 single cab
1956 low light Ghia
1957 oval
1958 bug
1967 bug
1956 oval
1969 Ghia |
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John Moxon 
Samba Moderator
Joined: March 07, 2004
Posts: 13952
Location: Southampton U.K.
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Marcdeb
Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2019
Posts: 3030
Location: Vermont
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| Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:07 am Post subject: Re: Karmanns & Bring-a-Trailer Auctions |
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| Cal-Neva speed shop wrote: |
Oh no. I got almost double for it then what it got bid to.
| John Moxon wrote: |
| Cal-Neva speed shop wrote: |
That was my car. It sold outside of eBay.
| kingkarmann wrote: |
I’m thinking the seller should think hard about that bid.... |
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Well $26700 was never going to buy a well sorted '56...hope you got what you wanted for it. |
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Glad to hear that you got real money for it. Probably still a bargain for the buyer considering a 2nd year Ghia and how original it is. It is a beautiful Ghia and few in that condition are available for purchase. I would have a hard time parting with it.
_________________
Marc
68 Karmann Ghia Cabrio Autostick
71 Karmann Ghia Cabrio
Previously Owned:
2011 VW EOS Hard Top Conv
2008 Saab 9-3 2.0T Conv
2003 Saab 9-3 SE Conv
2001 Saab 9-3 Conv
1998 BMW 3 Series Conv
1997 Saab 900 Conv
1997 Mazda Miata
68 Ghia Vert Survivor with 22,350 miles: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=768107&highlight=
71 Ghia Vert Restoration: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=726710&postorder=asc |
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Braukuche
Samba Member
Joined: September 03, 2004
Posts: 10997
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| Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:25 am Post subject: Re: Karmanns & Bring-a-Trailer Auctions |
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BAT buyers are willing to pay top dollar for nicely done cars from what I’ve seen, and they also are willing to pay more for mediocre and even poorly done cars then what you see them go for on the Samba.
I think BAT is the best thing that’s ever happened to Ghias. It makes it possible now for people like myself to properly build a Ghia and still make a decent profit. There are so few nicely done and correctly done cars that this will help provide an incentive to do more Ghias correctly.
_________________
Go Reds! Smash state!
Retirement is here!
1956 Ghia
1959 SO-23 Westfalia
1960 double cab
1960 Baja Bug
1963 stretched double cab
1962 Golde sunroof Ghia
1963 356 B coupe
1963 Notchback
1967 21 window less rusty now |
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kingkarmann
Samba Member
Joined: November 05, 2003
Posts: 4111
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| Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 12:13 pm Post subject: Re: Karmanns & Bring-a-Trailer Auctions |
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| Cal-Neva speed shop wrote: |
Oh no. I got almost double for it then what it got bid to.
| John Moxon wrote: |
| Cal-Neva speed shop wrote: |
That was my car. It sold outside of eBay.
| kingkarmann wrote: |
I’m thinking the seller should think hard about that bid.... |
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Well $26700 was never going to buy a well sorted '56...hope you got what you wanted for it. |
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Fantastic!😎
_________________
"Depression is a malfunction of the instrument we use to determine reality.”
Mike Gerson
What is your "Bespoke Reality"? |
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Braukuche
Samba Member
Joined: September 03, 2004
Posts: 10997
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| Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 3:00 pm Post subject: Re: Karmanns & Bring-a-Trailer Auctions |
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Bid to $26k no sale. That guy is a crazy, that was a lot for such a mediocre car.
To top it off he claims the torsion covers are there and not slathered over in bondo, but I don’t see them or the rocker seams.
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1960-volkswagen-karmann-ghia-4/
_________________
Go Reds! Smash state!
Retirement is here!
1956 Ghia
1959 SO-23 Westfalia
1960 double cab
1960 Baja Bug
1963 stretched double cab
1962 Golde sunroof Ghia
1963 356 B coupe
1963 Notchback
1967 21 window less rusty now |
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rcooled
Samba Member
Joined: September 20, 2008
Posts: 2502
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
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| Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 4:55 pm Post subject: Re: Karmanns & Bring-a-Trailer Auctions |
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| Braukuche wrote: |
| ....but I don’t see them or the rocker seams. |
Even absent in photos of the bare shell. Looks like it's had a quick-flip makeover.
_________________
'63 Ragtop (current)
'65 Ghia coupe (totaled)
'67 Ghia convertible (current)
'69.5 Ghia convertible and
'62, '63, '65, '69 Bugs (all long gone) |
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Era Vulgaris
Samba Member
Joined: August 22, 2012
Posts: 1672
Location: Raleigh, NC
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| Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 5:29 pm Post subject: Re: Karmanns & Bring-a-Trailer Auctions |
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That car was a mess. Did you see the photos of the inside of the nose? Those "repairs" looked like they were done by someone who'd never done bodywork before. And he acted like they were excellently done. I even pointed out the missing nose seals and he acted like they weren't a thing that exists! Then I pointed out that the panel the spare tire sits on was clearly slathered in bondo, and he said that it was in perfect condition.
Like I don't know if that guy was just completely ignorant and had no idea how bad his car was, or if he was a jerk trying to screw someone over with a car that was clearly a turd. But I agree, that guy was out of his mind to not take that high bid.
What's infuriating about a car like that is that the guy took the time to completely disassemble the car and remove the body from the pan. That's so much work just to get to that point, why not do the repairs correctly?!
_________________
Currently own:
66 Karmann Ghia, L390 Gulf Blue, under construction, here: www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=760505&highlight=
99 Mazda MX-5 10AE, Sapphire Blue Mica, 6 speed, LSD
Previously owned:
98 Porsche Boxster, silver, 2.5L -- 67 Karmann Ghia, Black, 1500sp -- 98 BMW Z3, Atlanta Blue Metallic, 2.8L I6 -- 75 Porsche 914, Laguna Blue, 2270cc -- 72 Porsche 914, Signal Orange, 1.7 FI -- 74 Karmann Ghia, Black, 1600dp -- 74 Triumph TR6 with O.D., sapphire blue |
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Braukuche
Samba Member
Joined: September 03, 2004
Posts: 10997
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| Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 6:12 pm Post subject: Re: Karmanns & Bring-a-Trailer Auctions |
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That 63 that sold for $20k was a better deal at $26k than that hack job of a terd.
_________________
Go Reds! Smash state!
Retirement is here!
1956 Ghia
1959 SO-23 Westfalia
1960 double cab
1960 Baja Bug
1963 stretched double cab
1962 Golde sunroof Ghia
1963 356 B coupe
1963 Notchback
1967 21 window less rusty now |
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c21darrel
Samba Member
Joined: January 22, 2009
Posts: 8211
Location: San Dimas
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Marcdeb
Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2019
Posts: 3030
Location: Vermont
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kingkarmann
Samba Member
Joined: November 05, 2003
Posts: 4111
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 8:06 pm Post subject: Re: Karmanns & Bring-a-Trailer Auctions |
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I gently “picked”
_________________
"Depression is a malfunction of the instrument we use to determine reality.”
Mike Gerson
What is your "Bespoke Reality"? |
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Sebastian Gaeta
Samba Member
Joined: December 25, 2003
Posts: 289
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 8:20 pm Post subject: Re: Karmanns & Bring-a-Trailer Auctions |
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| kingkarmann wrote: |
I gently “picked” |
I think you were very fair in your comments as you typically are.
_________________
Sebastian Gaeta
'63 Beetle Turkis
‘64 Karmann Ghia Coupe Manilagelb/Black Roof
'64 356C cabriolet Signalrot
'65 356C coupe Rubinrot
'66 Single Cab Velvet Green
'67 Karmann Ghia convertible Heliosblau |
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rcooled
Samba Member
Joined: September 20, 2008
Posts: 2502
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 8:39 pm Post subject: Re: Karmanns & Bring-a-Trailer Auctions |
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| Sebastian Gaeta wrote: |
| kingkarmann wrote: |
| [I gently “picked” |
I think you were very fair in your comments as you typically are. |
Yes, fair indeed considering the condition of this car. Looks like another "Quick-Flip" special. The seller doesn't seem to know much about Ghias either.
_________________
'63 Ragtop (current)
'65 Ghia coupe (totaled)
'67 Ghia convertible (current)
'69.5 Ghia convertible and
'62, '63, '65, '69 Bugs (all long gone) |
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Braukuche
Samba Member
Joined: September 03, 2004
Posts: 10997
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 9:06 pm Post subject: Re: Karmanns & Bring-a-Trailer Auctions |
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| rcooled wrote: |
| Sebastian Gaeta wrote: |
| kingkarmann wrote: |
| [I gently “picked” |
I think you were very fair in your comments as you typically are. |
Yes, fair indeed considering the condition of this car. Looks like another "Quick-Flip" special. The seller doesn't seem to know much about Ghias either. |
It’s at $10k which is about what it’s worth.
_________________
Go Reds! Smash state!
Retirement is here!
1956 Ghia
1959 SO-23 Westfalia
1960 double cab
1960 Baja Bug
1963 stretched double cab
1962 Golde sunroof Ghia
1963 356 B coupe
1963 Notchback
1967 21 window less rusty now |
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kent70ghia
Samba Member
Joined: June 15, 2020
Posts: 176
Location: Tacoma, WA
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 10:49 pm Post subject: Re: Karmanns & Bring-a-Trailer Auctions |
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Your comments are on point, in addition the seats and seatbelt latches are not from a 70. Lots of mods to the car.
| kingkarmann wrote: |
I gently “picked” |
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Marcdeb
Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2019
Posts: 3030
Location: Vermont
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| Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2021 8:00 am Post subject: Re: Karmanns & Bring-a-Trailer Auctions |
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It does look like quality was not important. Carpet on the front kick panels have ragged edges and windlace is missing. Binding the edge would have been an improvement! I can only think that the dash was supposed to look like wood grain - if that was the intent, it didn't come out very good?? No tar boards in the engine compartment. There is a lot of patching that has gone into the pans. The body gaps seem to line up so well but there's no telling what is under that nice paint job?
Much of this could so easily have been done better.
_________________
Marc
68 Karmann Ghia Cabrio Autostick
71 Karmann Ghia Cabrio
Previously Owned:
2011 VW EOS Hard Top Conv
2008 Saab 9-3 2.0T Conv
2003 Saab 9-3 SE Conv
2001 Saab 9-3 Conv
1998 BMW 3 Series Conv
1997 Saab 900 Conv
1997 Mazda Miata
68 Ghia Vert Survivor with 22,350 miles: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=768107&highlight=
71 Ghia Vert Restoration: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=726710&postorder=asc |
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crocteau
Samba Member
Joined: March 31, 2005
Posts: 1204
Location: Philaburbia
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