I didn't call 811, and then hit a gas line!

[skills@eurocarsplus]

[74 Thing]

1500 for labor overheads- f that

[OTO X58]

Our utilities are supposed to be 18 inches under ground, and the trench filled with sand above the pipe, to act as a warning to anyone digging.

That pipe is before my meter, about 100 feet from the road, right before a Tee that goes to my house and my neighbor's house.

That pipe is plastic, not copper. And their repair was to just push a coupler over the pipe, similar to a push-to-connect fitting on a water line to an ice maker. That's one reason I am surprised it cost so much. It took like 20 minutes.

There's definitely erosion in that area, so it may have been installed properly like 50 years ago in the 1970s. I don't really blame PG&E for the depth of the line. But I also do think that they should probably inspect these older utilities with a meter to gauge the depth. Especially with all the fires and deaths across California that they've been found guilty of, due to lack of maintenance.

Here's my issue. I make a mistake and I own that. I should have called the number, and I will pay the bill for the damage and emergency personnel cost that I caused. BUT, I feel like they're padding the bill pretty heavily. And I wish they would take into account that I'm just a guy with a shovel barely digging deep at all, not a contractor with an excavator. I hope they'll be reasonable on the phone and give me a break, and I will fight for that.. But if not, then I'll ultimately pay the bill.

I also feel like they now know that one of their gas lines in my yard is not only past its service life (by their own admission), but it also only 6" deep. They know that now, and I want them to come fix that. I wish they had checked on this at some time in the past because then maybe I wouldn't have had this incident happen, but in the end it was my fault for being ignorant of the law that requires me to call 811.
_________________
-Thomas

RIP HBB 10.10.84 - 12.25.09
1958 Ragtop Bug Build - Subaru Swap!
1957 Gazelle Beige Ghia FOR SALE
1957 Dove Blue Kombi field find

[Abscate]

Homeowners should cover some of that loss after your deductible.

I think you will win this one successfully without a lawyer if you call them up,and talk like an adult.
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.ssS!

[67 Florida Deluxe]

^^^ I agree. Clearly, you're accepting responsibility but the bill is outrageous, especially when you consider the mitigating factors. Hopefully, you can find someone in the utility company chain of command that will be reasonable. I would think a grand would be appropriate, especially given the actual repair that was done. That bill padded like a government contract! Good luck, I hope you find a reasonable ear.
_________________
-Kent (BaT "daleallen")

OG member of the '67 Posse

A few of my toys, past and present
'56 Oval, '66 KG Conv't, '67 21-Window, '67 Bug, '79 SuperVert, '55 Pre-A Continental

[volksaddict]

tell em to eat a bagful of dicks

[hitest]

Next time throw a few old bones and Native American artifacts in the hole and ask PG&E why THEY dug their line through there...
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[Abscate]

[finster]

brilliant! maybe a bigfoot footprint next to the hole too...
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"we're here on Earth to fart around" kurt vonnegut

nothing lasts, nothing is finished, and nothing is perfect...

[oprn]

This whole scenario it total BS! There is no way in Hades that should have happened. The utility company should be charged with endangering your life. You should be able to put a shovel into the ground anywhere on your property without fearing for your life! Good Lord that's about as close to planting a land mine on your property as you can get!

The proper procedure in our area for decades has been when you get close to a known gas or electrical line with a trench you stop machine digging and EXPOSE THE LINE BY HAND BY DIGGING WITH A SHOVEL!!

Strike 1, if their line could not withstand hand digging with a shovel then they are negligent and are a risk to public health and safety! Strike 2 is that the line was not at a reasonable depth.

Question, was there a tracer wire beside the plastic line? I don't see one so calling 811 likely would not have helped as you cannot detect a plastic line without a tracer wire.

[jspbtown]

First thing I would do is go to your town/city's Municipal building and walk straight into the building department and ask to see the Code Enforcement Officer.

Having a gas line buried that shallow would NEVER fly out where I live. If it was against code then you have a real argument to protest that assessment. You could have hit that line planting flowers for goodness sake....

Plus...that conversation is free and if the Code Enforcement officer takes his job seriously you might have a very strong ally in your corner.

[Abscate]

Another thing to consider.

If you can generate enough calls from neighborhood people asking them to map location and depth of high pressure has line on their property the liability guys at PGE will be be forced into a position of knowledge of dangerous conditions ....aka " you knew about this"

Civic duty aside , I'm not sure how you parlay this into getting your fine relieved.

IANL but my guess is this is just a civil action and not relevant to your ability to get gas service , i.e. They can't shut you off for not paying this

The easement to install gas line on your property probably has a covenant that itvhaa to be maintained to conform to codes , too. YOur CEO should have something to say about by that.

From pipeline safety trust organizations

[Randall]

If you want to be your own lawyer you can sue them in Small Claims Court, but first you'll need to file a claim against PG&E. If your claim is denied then you can go after them in Small Claims Court.
"How to Sue a Government Agency in Small Claims Court" ---> https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/free-books/small-claims-book/chapter8-9.html

Small Claims Court handles claim amounts up to $10,000.
https://www.courts.ca.gov/1256.htm

[LAGrunthaner]

OTO X58, I agree with Abscate regarding homeowners insurance, or even auto insurance you never know without research and asking. If insurance doesn't cover it go to your utility company and see if they would lower it. If they don't you could tell them you don't have the money but will pay over time and stretch it out in installments. Glad you are OK and the shovel didn't cause a spark. Please keep us updated.

"Safety Hazard

A call should also be made to an individual’s homeowner’s insurance provider so that it can be determined if the repair is covered. In most cases, it’s unlikely that this type of accident would be covered under a homeowner’s standard policy."

https://www.encyclopedia.com/articles/does-homeowners-insurance-cover-a-gas-line-replacement/

Gas line is usually black pipe but some areas can use copper but that is crazy to me.

"Piping materials

Steel, copper, brass: The most common gas piping is black steel. Galvanized steel, copper, brass or CSST (Corrugated Stainless Steel Tubing) also can be used in some areas, but some utilities specifically prohibit the use of copper. In other areas, the use of copper is widespread. You should know what is acceptable in your area. Steel piping typically is black with malleable iron or steel fittings. Galvanized steel is used in some areas as well."

As per link:
https://www.carsondunlop.com/training/resources/everything-you-need-to-know-about-gas-piping/

[Abscate]

[OTO X58]

Quick update.
I have been arguing with PG&E about this. I stated my case, that I am a homeowner and was only using a shovel to dig 6” deep. Not a contractor or using power tools. I asked if I could speak to someone who would have the authority to drastically reduce or waive the bill. I also included a picture of the shallow line. And explained that my home owners insurance deductible is $3k, so that’s no help.

In their first response they offered to reduce the bill by 20% if I pay the whole thong in one shot. I replied that I’d really like to speak with someone about this. And they replied back that they’d do 30% off, final offer. (That makes it $2300) And that’s where we are right now. I haven’t replied yet.

I think I am going to ask again to speak with someone. On one hand I don’t think they’d offer this discount this quick if they weren’t prepared to discount further. On the other hand the department head might get fed up and go back to the full amount. But with the line being less than 6” under ground, and also being ancient and past its service life, and the fact that I hit it with a regular shovel... I just have a feeling that if I keep pushing they will let this go, quite possibly with no charge.

What would you do?
_________________
-Thomas

RIP HBB 10.10.84 - 12.25.09
1958 Ragtop Bug Build - Subaru Swap!
1957 Gazelle Beige Ghia FOR SALE
1957 Dove Blue Kombi field find

[VW_Jimbo]

[Onceler]

Their labor rate seems ridiculous at least in my part of the country. Maybe recalculate using a realistic labor rate and see if they accept? The actual labor rate and what pg&e marks up for labor is probably the 30% discount. Just keep picking over the details. Was there actual overtime for them? Was there really a need for Engineering/mapping service at double time? I doubt it, since when do salary folks get double time? Even if they do, that doesn’t mean it’s your problem. Recalculate their calculations using your own numbers and make an offer. Use your educated informed opinion. Maybe they’d take $1000 if you back up your position with numbers.
They probably get absolutely nothing from so many folks that simply fall off the face of the earth that they’ll probably come down quite a bit.
Basically their numbers aren’t real and your numbers won’t be either, but could allow both parties to see where an agreement can be reached.

[finster]

sounds to me like they know they have a weak stance on this - I'd be tempted to get a solicitor involved and give them a shot across the bows...
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"we're here on Earth to fart around" kurt vonnegut

nothing lasts, nothing is finished, and nothing is perfect...

[jspbtown]