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briways
Samba Member
Joined: October 31, 2017
Posts: 20
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
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 Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2021 1:09 pm Post subject: Starting Issue: Running out of fuel aftermath 83.5 Vanagon 1.9L |
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1983.5 Waterboxer 1.9L Campmobile
Drove all around the USA but recently came from Key West, FL to Kentucky, and now am in the Poconos, PA. In Kentucky, right after Tennessee. I tightened my Alternator belt as it was loose, probably because I still haven't drilled out those stubs, but hot to cold weather change. Then I ran out of gas on the highway around the same time.
After running out of fuel the accelerator would stutter if I pressed it too far down or not enough. Only made it to PA with keeping it on a sweet spot. So I replaced my fuel pump, fuel filter, battery, spark plugs, plugs, rotor, distributor cap, and both fuel pump/injector relays.
I am getting it to turn but not getting it running. I have an extra spare ECU. Should I toss that in? Or do you think it could be fuel lines that need to be replaced or it's just a pesky ground cable somewhere? 02 sensor? I had a radiator hose leak close to the Airbox area recently, might have messed up some wires.
It is 10 degrees here, cold isn't helping I bet. Any advice is appreciated. First time posting on here, apologizes if I posted incorrectly.
Cheers
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83.5' Vanagon Automatic 1.9L Campmobile |
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32574
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2021 1:30 pm Post subject: Re: Starting Issue: Running out of fuel aftermath 83.5 Vanagon 1.9L |
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Welcome to Pennsylvania!
Your timing is great with a Nor'Easter today and into tomorrow.
When you pulled your fuel pump and filter, what did the fuel look like?
Was it clear or muddy and rusty looking?
Running out of fuel is a key clue to fixing this problem, cause and effect.
Your tank outlet may be clogged, at least restricted. Did fuel come out when you removed the pump?
Try running it with a loose/removed gas cap..... Any better?
If any dirt somehow got past the fuel filter, it may have lodged in the injector nozzles.
Pull the vacuum line off the fuel pressure regulator, it should be dry, suck on it, it should develop vacuum, not fill your mouth with gasoline.
Just spitballing here.......
Dave
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briways
Samba Member
Joined: October 31, 2017
Posts: 20
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
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| Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2021 3:07 pm Post subject: Re: Starting Issue: Running out of fuel aftermath 83.5 Vanagon 1.9L |
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When you pulled your fuel pump and filter, what did the fuel look like?
Seemed clear based on the snow around me.
Did fuel come out when you removed the pump?
Yes, seems as if im getting fuel past the pump/filter.
Try running it with a loose/removed gas cap..... Any better?
No difference
If any dirt somehow got past the fuel filter, it may have lodged in the injector nozzles.
This might be the right track
Pull the vacuum line off the fuel pressure regulator, it should be dry, suck on it, it should develop vacuum, not fill your mouth with gasoline.
I tried this and couldn't get any gas. I need to find my mini bleeder/syphon
Do you know what size fuel pressure gauge fits on the fuel line bleeder tee?
Here is a video of what is heard whlist cranking
https://bgegis.s3-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/VANAGON.mp4
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83.5' Vanagon Automatic 1.9L Campmobile |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50336
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| Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2021 3:22 pm Post subject: Re: Starting Issue: Running out of fuel aftermath 83.5 Vanagon 1.9L |
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Doesn't sound like it is making any kind of effort to start at all, maybe just one hit over the length of your video. Does your exhaust pipe smell of raw fuel after you have cranked your engine?
I would try a quality fuel injection cleaner dumped into your gas tank, preferable while the pump is running so it gets mixed around. |
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4Gears4Tires
Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2018
Posts: 3018
Location: MD
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| Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2021 3:40 pm Post subject: Re: Starting Issue: Running out of fuel aftermath 83.5 Vanagon 1.9L |
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You need to verify if you have spark.
You may have done something like disconnected a ground and now the coil isn't firing. After that, remove the injectors and verify they are spitting fuel.
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briways
Samba Member
Joined: October 31, 2017
Posts: 20
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
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| Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2021 5:52 pm Post subject: Re: Starting Issue: Running out of fuel aftermath 83.5 Vanagon 1.9L |
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The exhaust pipe tip does slightly smell like raw gas but hard to tell. I could get some injector cleaner. Or should I just clean the injectors directly?
I do have spark. I haven't pulled the injectors to check yet.
Could it be the hall sensor? Fuel lines? o2?
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4Gears4Tires
Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2018
Posts: 3018
Location: MD
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| Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2021 8:12 am Post subject: Re: Starting Issue: Running out of fuel aftermath 83.5 Vanagon 1.9L |
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The injectors are one 10mm bolt to pull. Cut a water bottle in half and set them inside it.
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16859
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2021 8:51 am Post subject: Re: Starting Issue: Running out of fuel aftermath 83.5 Vanagon 1.9L |
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your running out of fuel could have stirred some junk up in the tank.... or you may have water in the fuel.
i would try and get a fuel sample into a clean bottle and see if you can tell if you have any water in it. 1/2 a soda bottle should tell you if you have any water in the tank, it will sink to the bottom
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briways
Samba Member
Joined: October 31, 2017
Posts: 20
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
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| Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2021 9:01 pm Post subject: Re: Starting Issue: Running out of fuel aftermath 83.5 Vanagon 1.9L |
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I filled up a soda bottle full of the gas from a splice before the fuel pump. The results look clear of water and rust in this photo:
https://bgegis.s3-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/cleargas.jpeg
I didn't have any carb cleaner but I had starter fluid and WD40 that I attempted to clean the injectors with (I am sort of stranded out in PA in a larger than usual snow storm, no 711 delivery or quick amazon purchases here). I tested a side for spray, will do the other side tomorrow. Ordered fuel lines from Vanagain and ordered new injectors with seals from EWParts with overnight shipping. Here is the video of the spray and crank:
https://bgegis.s3-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/sprayandcrank.mp4
I swapped in my spare ECU just for kicks and giggles and no luck.
I saw whilst removing the injectors on the air box side that the fuel line running under the alternator looked a bit squished or not in an ideal position. I am going to replace that line when it arrives. Wish those knobs on the engine block for the alternator never broke off, I should probably drill those out, so the alternator stays a bit more steady.
Anything electrical that is obvious that could be holding me up? A weak replacement fuel pump? Anyone know the fuel pressure gauge size that fits in the tee or should I just toss one inline?
All advice is appreciated! Thanks!
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50336
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| Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 12:01 am Post subject: Re: Starting Issue: Running out of fuel aftermath 83.5 Vanagon 1.9L |
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| Have you verified that you have a nice strong spark? |
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briways
Samba Member
Joined: October 31, 2017
Posts: 20
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
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| Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 1:04 am Post subject: Re: Starting Issue: Running out of fuel aftermath 83.5 Vanagon 1.9L |
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| Have you verified that you have a nice strong spark? |
Yes
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83.5' Vanagon Automatic 1.9L Campmobile |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50336
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| Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 1:31 am Post subject: Re: Starting Issue: Running out of fuel aftermath 83.5 Vanagon 1.9L |
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| When the POS 1.9L in my 1983 1/2 wouldn't start at 0°F in Colorado one time. we eventually had someone with a pickup pull us down the street and after a half block or so it cleared itself, started, and ran fine. |
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briways
Samba Member
Joined: October 31, 2017
Posts: 20
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
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| Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 2:04 am Post subject: Re: Starting Issue: Running out of fuel aftermath 83.5 Vanagon 1.9L |
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| When the POS 1.9L in my 1983 1/2 wouldn't start at 0°F in Colorado one time. we eventually had someone with a pickup pull us down the street and after a half block or so it cleared itself, started, and ran fine. |
Was this in a manual? Did you run out of fuel shortly before the rado experience? Explain in specific detail of your methodology behind this running fine success.
Cheers m8
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32574
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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Wellington
Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2004
Posts: 1884
Location: Montreal
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| Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 3:19 am Post subject: Re: Starting Issue: Running out of fuel aftermath 83.5 Vanagon 1.9L |
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"After running out of fuel the accelerator would stutter if I pressed it too far down or not enough. Only made it to PA with keeping it on a sweet spot. So I replaced my fuel pump, fuel filter, battery, spark plugs, plugs, rotor, distributor cap, and both fuel pump/injector relays.
I am getting it to turn but not getting it running."
You ran out of gas, but then it was running, but like crap.
You then changed parts and now it won't run at all......
I think you sucked up crap from your tank, great, you changed the fuel filter, gas looks good, I'd go back and verify you got the ignition wires installed correctly, you have the correct rotor and cap, and verify the wires are correct for the cap and spark plugs. |
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Abscate
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22639
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 3:41 am Post subject: Re: Starting Issue: Running out of fuel aftermath 83.5 Vanagon 1.9L |
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Is it firing and running fora few seconds on starter fluid ? That confirms spark and timing
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djkeev
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Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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4Gears4Tires
Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2018
Posts: 3018
Location: MD
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| Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 8:22 am Post subject: Re: Starting Issue: Running out of fuel aftermath 83.5 Vanagon 1.9L |
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| djkeev wrote: |
I saw no fuel spray in that video?
Was I supposed to and I missed it?
No spray= no gas = no start. |
Thank you, I was about to say that. Looks like the injectors are completely clogged/broken. Even if new injectors don't fix this, they are certainly 1 part contributing to the issue. In fact, they are so non working I would be checking the engine harness for the electrical signal to fire. I haven't seen such completely clogged injectors before. I would replace them, but I would also verify that they are getting signal to fire.
If you want to add a fuel pressure gauge to the T, just use a short 1" piece of fuel hose between it and the gauge. There isn't a gauge that screws into that little hole. That's why the T has a ferrule at the end.
Also: holy shit dude what did I say previously. "CUT A WATER BOTTLE IN HALF AND SET THEM INSIDE IT." Do not, under any circumstances, repeat your exercise of having injectors fire randomly across the engine bay. That is 1 spark away from having a lot more issues. And there are a lot of sparks on that side, like the starter or the alternator. Or be even safer and use 2 water bottles and have the injectors jammed inside.
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Abscate
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22639
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 8:32 am Post subject: Re: Starting Issue: Running out of fuel aftermath 83.5 Vanagon 1.9L |
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Running out of fuel may or may not have been causal but it is irrelevant to troubleshooting. Get that out of the way of the grey matter
Post hoc ergo propter hoc, which translates as your proctologist put his ego in the mail and it is more fun to visit him than fix your Van Bus
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50336
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| Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 8:52 am Post subject: Re: Starting Issue: Running out of fuel aftermath 83.5 Vanagon 1.9L |
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| briways wrote: |
| Wildthings wrote: |
| When the POS 1.9L in my 1983 1/2 wouldn't start at 0°F in Colorado one time. we eventually had someone with a pickup pull us down the street and after a half block or so it cleared itself, started, and ran fine. |
Was this in a manual? Did you run out of fuel shortly before the rado experience? Explain in specific detail of your methodology behind this running fine success.
Cheers m8 |
Ratty engine with almost no compression on its first road trip, just wouldn't start in the combined cold and elevation found in Colorado. The point is that a tow start may work where other efforts fail.
Your running out of fuel may have accentuated the problems that ethanol laced fuel is known to cause, both your injectors and valve stems may be sticky. I have found that adding a quart of 2-cycle oil or synthetic motor oil to a full tank of gas can get you back on the road in this case, and may or may not make for a lasting fix. |
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