Replace Cylinder Heads and Gasket or just get a new Engine?

[ObviouslyM]

Hi, I have 170k on my factory 1991 2.1L vanagon.

After a routine oil change the tech noticed that I have an exterior antifreeze leak. The antifreeze is clean and bright green.

They gave me the options of:

A. $3600 to replace the cylinder heads/gasket if a compression/oil test shows it is worth doing.

B. The other option is to just get a new 2.3L GoWesty engine for about ~$8,000.

Just curious what the smart thing to do here would be.

Pros and cons of going with option 1 or option B.

[djkeev]

I would so rebuild my own engine.

Which GoWesty engine? Prices vary greatly.

But....... if you aren't doing the work, this forum is littered with engine rebuild horror stories. "Professionals" taking good money for inferior work.

To pay that much money, I'd go with the GoWesty option.

Check your guys price though, it's way more than just bolting in an engine...... If you want dependability....... now is the time for multiple system upgrades if they haven't yet been done.

New radiator, new hoses, new fuel lines, starter, alternator, belts, cooling system pipes and fittings, clutch, maybe a fuel tank, CV joints, ........ etc.

You should end up closer to $10,000 if not more.

Dave

Dave
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[DanHoug]

Dave's points are good, especially with cost to do it right.

For me, I would want to know the hot oil pressure on your engine as that would be the criteria for me as to whether i did just head gaskets or an entire engine. so. your van needs to be drivable to determine that so that's the first threshold. if it is just some drips and slow coolant loss, top it up and test.

the second part is installing an oil pressure gauge. there's ready made kits from the vanagon vendors to do this and for me it is an important bit of info for the big decision. here's a complete kit that is $240 plus you get a cookie. regardless of which route you go, it is an essential gauge for an antique engine.
https://www.vancafe.com/KT-9981901-p/kt-9981901.htm
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-dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.

'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd

Past projects can be found at--
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[whafalia]

Subaru coolant additive-$3
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84 westie 2.2 w/ digijet, AT

[Silverghost500]

Before handing over your bank account is this a technician that works on your van regularly? If not go get a second opinion from another shop. If they give you the same diagnosis then you can start to plot the next road to go down.

It all depends on your budget and comfort level. If compression tests and no indication of metallic particles in the oil that was just changed, you might be able to do heads and gaskets and drive for a while longer. If there are other issues then it's time for a rebuild or replacement.

I'd find out from folks here what shops in your area are competent and reliable in rebuilding 2.1 water boxers.

If you go with a GoWesty engine there may be stipulations on what other components have to be replaced in order for their warranty to be valid.
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[dobryan]

If it is a small leak try the subaru conditioner as mentioned. It often works for quite a while.
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'87 Westy w/ 2002 Subaru EJ25 and Peloquin TBD

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[ObviouslyM]

[Wildthings]

These things got head leaks if they ran the factory recommended antifreeze and it was changed religiously. There was virtually nothing one could do to a factory engine to prevent the waterbox gaskets from leaking, and I am sure your mechanic is well aware of this if he knows anything at all about Vanagons. What you do need to be aware of at your mileage is that you are right in the range where the 2.1L rod bolts let loose. That can cause a catastrophic failure with very little warning.

My factory engine made it to around 180K with using stop leak like products to control the coolant leakage, but at that mileage the rod bolts were stretching which caused the oil pressure to drop noticeably, so it got taken out of service before it let go a rod.

[MarkWard]

[dabaron]

now is a great time to learn about rebuilding engines. it's a rung on the ladder towards "True Volkswagen Ownership" - the next rung above involves lots of welding.

but seriously, it's not expensive* to do your own rebuild - with an exhaust and cooling system updates you should expect to drop in the $3000 range - $500 more if you need some tools. it's all in the Bentley and here on this forum.

if you want to limp along with a problem eating away in the back of your mind every trip "will today be the day" or you can farm it out and have the question eating away "does this guy know what he is doing"

any and all failures are your fault. and that is good, because it lives and dies by your attention to detail and constant posts to get guidance when in doubt.

try the $3.00 fix, get some reference numbers. or just accept you need to do something and do it.

*compared to the head and engine quotes
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[dobryan]

^^^^ good thoughts right there.

Combine the $3 fix to hopefully buy you time until you pull the trigger on whatever path you chose.
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Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2002 Subaru EJ25 and Peloquin TBD

"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson

MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646

Building a bus for travel in Europe (euroBus)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371

The Western Syncro build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746794

[4Gears4Tires]

I bought 2 bottles for $4.20 because the van has so much more coolant than a Subaru. I only used 1 and it stopped the drip for me that appeared when it got colder.
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'87 Syncro
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[skills@eurocarsplus]

my 0.02

sounds like you got your moneys worth out of that engine. if you like the van, pull the money gun out and squeeze the trigger.

as noted, these like to go kaboom when a rod lets loose and when that happens your core is now a bunch of garbage.

toss in the coolant additive for the time being but i would for sure plan on a rebuild or a swap.
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[Zeitgeist 13]

If the heads are coming off anyway, you could always just pull the rods and replace the rod bolts. Though, I've only read about bolts letting go online. I've chatted about this issue with a factory trained buddy who's played with hundreds of 2.1s and he'd never once seen this issue. In my experience these bottom ends are hella stout, so if hot oil pressures are good, I'd be inclined to go with the devil you know.
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'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
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[danfromsyr]

time for a real engine and a suby swap.
same MPG but almost twice the useable horse power.
more modern fuel management and more reliable starts.
not to mention replacement parts available at any NAPA not just boutique antique van parts houses.
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[16CVs]

If you know the engine to be original and not rebuilt at some time then pull the heads and do gaskets. If you replace the heads or do a valve job then you better put rings on it as well.

If you're just trying to get some life out of it, pull the heads and grind out the pits and put it back together, the yellow snot is enough to fill and pits and you are not introducing a compound that may fail. If the van runs well now with no compression issues then way go overboard.

It is my contention that the 2.1's that chuck a rod are ones that have been rebuild and the stretch bolts were re used. In that scene I agree with Casey pull and replace the rod bolts. Or take the easy route and just do seals and be done with it.

One of my customers bought a real nice high mileage Multivan and 2K later it chucked a rod and ventilated the e case. A big hole fist sized.

Choose wisely.

Stacy
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[Wildthings]

[r39o]

[vanis13]

My subi tipping point was a WBX leaking head....when I couldn't replace it with the engine in, I swore I wouldn't put the same engine in if I pulled it out.
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[Abscate]

If you are unwilling to learn and execute your own rebuilds on these cars, it’s time to leave the scene.

Shops with the expertise to service these are dwindling and will be gone in 5 years, ave for the precious few markets.
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