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bugguy1967
Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2008
Posts: 4341
Location: Los Angeles, CA 90016
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 Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2021 6:09 am Post subject: Re: 100x71 Type 4 Build For Local Course Racing |
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No. Just pump fuel. My cam is so wild, I need that much cr just to be in the useful psi range for 91 octane. Not anymore spectacular than a 110 cam with 9.0:1 cr.
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"A petrol engine can start readily, run smoothly and give every appearance of being in good order, without necessarily being in good tune." - Colin Campbell, "The Sportscar Engine" |
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Bad bug
Samba Member
Joined: March 11, 2006
Posts: 1127
Location: Jamaica
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| Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2021 8:46 am Post subject: Re: 100x71 Type 4 Build For Local Course Racing |
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| bugguy1967 wrote: |
| Bad bug wrote: |
Bugguy1967, How much torque will you be putting on those flywheel bolts. I need a set for my oxyboxer, also are the liners you will be running birals.
What fluid did you use in your burette. |
The hardware spec is 98 lb-ft. I have an extra set, if needed.
Yes. Old nos EMPI birals. |
Ok, birals haven't heard anyone speak about these in a while, about the flywheel bolts do you have a part number also what fluid did you use in your burette. |
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bugguy1967
Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2008
Posts: 4341
Location: Los Angeles, CA 90016
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| Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2021 8:44 pm Post subject: Re: 100x71 Type 4 Build For Local Course Racing |
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| Bad bug wrote: |
| bugguy1967 wrote: |
| Bad bug wrote: |
Bugguy1967, How much torque will you be putting on those flywheel bolts. I need a set for my oxyboxer, also are the liners you will be running birals.
What fluid did you use in your burette. |
The hardware spec is 98 lb-ft. I have an extra set, if needed.
Yes. Old nos EMPI birals. |
Ok, birals haven't heard anyone speak about these in a while, about the flywheel bolts do you have a part number also what fluid did you use in your burette. |
Just water. I don't know the p/n#.
Spent a few hours today checking decks with all my pistons and cylinders. One of my case decks looks to be .0015" higher than the rest. Compression heights vary by .002"., and cylinders by .002". I guess some juggling is in-order after I cut down the barrels. When measuring each of the barrels on the table, I get much different numbers than when bolted into the engine. I can't imagine why.
Waiting for a new cam
Waiting to weld my heads
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"A petrol engine can start readily, run smoothly and give every appearance of being in good order, without necessarily being in good tune." - Colin Campbell, "The Sportscar Engine" |
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bugguy1967
Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2008
Posts: 4341
Location: Los Angeles, CA 90016
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| Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2021 9:03 pm Post subject: Re: 100x71 Type 4 Build For Local Course Racing |
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I currently have .002" piston-cylinder clearance. The Dodge spec is .00157" for the stock 99.5mm piston. What should I be aiming for?
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"A petrol engine can start readily, run smoothly and give every appearance of being in good order, without necessarily being in good tune." - Colin Campbell, "The Sportscar Engine" |
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modok
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009
Posts: 26787
Location: Colorado Springs
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| Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2021 9:52 pm Post subject: Re: 100x71 Type 4 Build For Local Course Racing |
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| bugguy1967 wrote: |
When measuring each of the barrels on the table, I get much different numbers than when bolted into the engine. I can't imagine why.
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Not sure if that is an ironic choice of words or not 
You'll think of it eventually but just in case you haven't yet.....
I use an indicator on a table to compare the height of the cylinders, see that they are parallel, and if they vary I mark the high and low spots.
Head end on the table and indicator on the ledge.
Can be done with JUST a dial indicator height gauge on any flat table but it is very easy to BUMP the indicator, so even better if you use a t-slot table and set up some stops, maybe just a big washers(hole saw leftovers?), on the table so you can bring the cylinder right up to the stops and not only do you not bump the indicator, you can spin the sleeve, and ALSO turn the indicator 90 degrees and now you can check squareness of the ends to the OD.
Then I use a micrometer to carefully measure just one or two spots to get a actual length.
Also could be done for pin heights, rod lengths, MANY situations like that. You can compare them accurately with a rig and an indicator, and then measure just a few spots, far easier than using a micrometer to check 10-20 different places.
For the piston clearance, that's a good question. It's going to be an educated guess. high silicon piston right? so... I'd guess +.001 at least for being aircooled, but maybe -.0005 for the birals.
So, it is possible only +.001 over the OE minimum would be perfect |
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Wreck
Samba Member
Joined: July 19, 2014
Posts: 1218
Location: Brisbane
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| Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2021 12:43 am Post subject: Re: 100x71 Type 4 Build For Local Course Racing |
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| just a point of reference, my hyp. SBC (4.040) pistons in biral cylinders were 0.002" and my JE 103's (4.055) 2618 in deutz cast cylinders were done at 0.006" . |
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bugguy1967
Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2008
Posts: 4341
Location: Los Angeles, CA 90016
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| Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2021 8:36 am Post subject: Re: 100x71 Type 4 Build For Local Course Racing |
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| modok wrote: |
| bugguy1967 wrote: |
When measuring each of the barrels on the table, I get much different numbers than when bolted into the engine. I can't imagine why.
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Not sure if that is an ironic choice of words or not
You'll think of it eventually but just in case you haven't yet.....
I use an indicator on a table to compare the height of the cylinders, see that they are parallel, and if they vary I mark the high and low spots.
Head end on the table and indicator on the ledge.
Can be done with JUST a dial indicator height gauge on any flat table but it is very easy to BUMP the indicator, so even better if you use a t-slot table and set up some stops, maybe just a big washers(hole saw leftovers?), on the table so you can bring the cylinder right up to the stops and not only do you not bump the indicator, you can spin the sleeve, and ALSO turn the indicator 90 degrees and now you can check squareness of the ends to the OD.
Then I use a micrometer to carefully measure just one or two spots to get a actual length.
Also could be done for pin heights, rod lengths, MANY situations like that. You can compare them accurately with a rig and an indicator, and then measure just a few spots, far easier than using a micrometer to check 10-20 different places.
For the piston clearance, that's a good question. It's going to be an educated guess. high silicon piston right? so... I'd guess +.001 at least for being aircooled, but maybe -.0005 for the birals.
So, it is possible only +.001 over the OE minimum would be perfect |
Thanks. The measuring method I was using was with an 8" caliper with the barrel laying down. I'm pretty proficient at it, but it seems these barrels are measuring slightly different all the way around -- as if the bore and cuts were not parallel to each other.
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"A petrol engine can start readily, run smoothly and give every appearance of being in good order, without necessarily being in good tune." - Colin Campbell, "The Sportscar Engine" |
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RWK
Samba Member
Joined: June 24, 2009
Posts: 1349
Location: S.W. MI
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| Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2021 4:14 pm Post subject: Re: 100x71 Type 4 Build For Local Course Racing |
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Looking good Tabari! If you chasing those thousandths, get yourself a surface plate and gage, compare cylinders to one another,spin them around make sure all are zero, as Modok stated, or compare to planer gage then mic. the gage,.. use surface gage to check deck geometry, confirm what you have, simple and quick, likely some variance in your decks, you'll also need some parallels or pull the studs, blueprinting 101.
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73 Type 181
63 Type 113
63 Type 261- 428 071
62 Type 241-378 025 178 530 |
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Clatter
Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003
Posts: 7544
Location: Santa Cruz
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| Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2021 6:12 pm Post subject: Re: 100x71 Type 4 Build For Local Course Racing |
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Decking a case is an art.
One guy i know came down with the quill to the stop locked,
But another preferred to crank the knee up to his number.
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Bus Motor Build
What’s That Noise?!? |
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bugguy1967
Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2008
Posts: 4341
Location: Los Angeles, CA 90016
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| Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2021 10:55 pm Post subject: Re: 100x71 Type 4 Build For Local Course Racing |
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| Wreck wrote: |
| bugguy1967 wrote: |
| Wreck wrote: |
CB2300 . 274 @'0.050 . in open 31 BTDC close 63 ABDC , 0.428" lift at the cam .
or a Web 86C . |
That's a Type 1 cam. |
Not when you ask CB if they can use the CB2300 master to grind a Type 4 billet . 
I'm very happy with it . plus they didn't charge any more than their normal type 4 cams . |
I just noticed this. Thanks! Didn't know that. It's right where I want to be. The alternative was the P cam. Wreck, how was the nose of the cam? Blunt or pointy?
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"A petrol engine can start readily, run smoothly and give every appearance of being in good order, without necessarily being in good tune." - Colin Campbell, "The Sportscar Engine" |
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Wreck
Samba Member
Joined: July 19, 2014
Posts: 1218
Location: Brisbane
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| Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2021 12:28 am Post subject: Re: 100x71 Type 4 Build For Local Course Racing |
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| It wasn't as blunt as your Q cam (that looks like a roller ) I didn't take a picture of the cam unfortunately . |
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bugguy1967
Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2008
Posts: 4341
Location: Los Angeles, CA 90016
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| Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2021 10:37 pm Post subject: Re: 100x71 Type 4 Build For Local Course Racing |
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Finally ordered the new vents. I was going to machine my own, but I'd only be shaping them based on a hunch. Maybe I'll still do them and compare.
Made some chamber volume plates. I knocked out a few for the future. My 66x105 will need one, and I made one for the 36hp platform.
Sent these bad boys out to a 914 owner in Florida: Chromoly shafts, high strength 8mm studs, machined and resurfaced rockers, tool steel adjusters, spring steel shim varieties, pinned solid spacers, and narrowed mounting blocks.
A friend sent me these oversized shafts (left) as a gift for worn rockers. You can hone them and still be within radial spec. Centerless-ground, smaller mounting holes. The right ones are standard chromoly shafts.
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"A petrol engine can start readily, run smoothly and give every appearance of being in good order, without necessarily being in good tune." - Colin Campbell, "The Sportscar Engine" |
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bugguy1967
Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2008
Posts: 4341
Location: Los Angeles, CA 90016
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| Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2021 10:45 pm Post subject: Re: 100x71 Type 4 Build For Local Course Racing |
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I found someone to print me a balancing jig. 22 and 24 small ends, and Honda, Chevy, VW, and 2.0 big ends. Now just to figure how to get consistent readings...
Valve locks finally showed in two different heights to dial-in install height. I wanted titanium locks, but for this budgeted build, I thought I'd take it easy. These were half the price. Using titanium retainers though.
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"A petrol engine can start readily, run smoothly and give every appearance of being in good order, without necessarily being in good tune." - Colin Campbell, "The Sportscar Engine" |
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dunk
Samba Member
Joined: April 02, 2006
Posts: 161
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| Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2021 6:25 am Post subject: Re: 100x71 Type 4 Build For Local Course Racing |
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| bugguy1967 wrote: |
I found someone to print me a balancing jig. 22 and 24 small ends, and Honda, Chevy, VW, and 2.0 big ends. Now just to figure how to get consistent readings...
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Awesome stuff.. where did you find those cylinders?! very cool..
wrt to the balancing jig... the 3d printing is a cool idea..
-which end is free to "hang"?!.. cant see from the pic..
- imo weigh the bases down, both bases must be fixed while youre weighing, if they can move, bend, flex or wobble at all you wont get repeatable results.. to that end, you could possibly attach earth magnets to the bases so it helps it stay in position on the scales?!
- how is the fit on the discs that the rod ends fit on?! if its tight or you cant put the rods on "exactly" the same way each time.. the results arent accurate. Bearings are often used in those positions..
keep up the great work! |
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VWporscheGT3
Samba Member
Joined: September 01, 2006
Posts: 2076
Location: Gardnerville, NV
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| Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2021 4:02 pm Post subject: Re: 100x71 Type 4 Build For Local Course Racing |
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| bugguy1967 wrote: |
With that Q cam, I'm around 290°@.050". I expected it was going to fall short, but was dead-on. Looking at a smaller cam around 275°, so I can run around 12.2:1 cr on 91, and peak at 7,500ish rpm. That Q wants to rev beyond 9,000 rpm.
Don't take those exhaust numbers to the bank. Measured fast with a small pulley.
Anybody know how to pop this sensor out without damaging it? Thinking the only way is to grind it and punch it out.
ARP flywheel bolts arrived
Measured dome volume. 100mm piston, .106" dome height, the flat portion was .250" down the hole - 44cc. If I'm not mistaken, that's 5.91cc.
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for future reference , on the KB/ UEM calculator , you can subtract the dome volume from the chamber like you did there, or simply insert -5.9 in the piston head volume area. dome volumes are always negative as they are taking away from the chamber volume, dishes are positive.. our calculator is a little backwards from some of the others out there.
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Schnell, SCHNELL!
I like being wrong, Because, it is another opportunity to learn. If you stop learning from your mistakes than what is the point?
If you have any questions about Forged ICON 4032 VW pistons just shoot me a line. |
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bugguy1967
Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2008
Posts: 4341
Location: Los Angeles, CA 90016
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| Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2021 10:03 pm Post subject: Re: 100x71 Type 4 Build For Local Course Racing |
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Finally started. I was looking over my work after, and I think I want to do a little more to the fins.
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"A petrol engine can start readily, run smoothly and give every appearance of being in good order, without necessarily being in good tune." - Colin Campbell, "The Sportscar Engine" |
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bugguy1967
Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2008
Posts: 4341
Location: Los Angeles, CA 90016
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| Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:15 am Post subject: Re: 100x71 Type 4 Build For Local Course Racing |
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Heads are all welded and surfaced. I opted for Moldstar 90 seats. There's a guy on Ebay that'll cut whatever you want for a decent price. I requested that the seats be on the small side in the I.D. so I can finish them by hand. So I have dummy guides. Those get loosely pressed in, seats installed, then the guides get pushed back out for porting. When I'm all done, I'll install guides with the correct interference, ream, and perform the valve job. Unlike steel, these Moldstars only get about .006" interference fit.
Stock 40mm vents out, 44s in
Barrels got trimmed .180" to get .040" deck, and .050" positive deck at the dome center.
The Q cam is coming out (left), and the P is going in. I machined the cam again to clear the #2 exhaust lifter, and polished the thrusts a bit.
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"A petrol engine can start readily, run smoothly and give every appearance of being in good order, without necessarily being in good tune." - Colin Campbell, "The Sportscar Engine" |
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RWK
Samba Member
Joined: June 24, 2009
Posts: 1349
Location: S.W. MI
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| Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 5:39 am Post subject: Re: 100x71 Type 4 Build For Local Course Racing |
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Great choice for the seats,  I have used their products in plastic molds for decades, Ampco 18,21 and 22 is great for guides, guess they call it Moldstar 22 for the racers,very difficult to machine tho.
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73 Type 181
63 Type 113
63 Type 261- 428 071
62 Type 241-378 025 178 530 |
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bugguy1967
Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2008
Posts: 4341
Location: Los Angeles, CA 90016
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| Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 4:21 pm Post subject: Re: 100x71 Type 4 Build For Local Course Racing |
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| RWK wrote: |
| Great choice for the seats, I have used their products in plastic molds for decades, Ampco 18,21 and 22 is great for guides, guess they call it Moldstar 22 for the racers,very difficult to machine tho. |
It was literally a last-minute decision. I found a local guy that cuts any size you want.
He called to say he finished them last night. They should be in the head by next week.
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"A petrol engine can start readily, run smoothly and give every appearance of being in good order, without necessarily being in good tune." - Colin Campbell, "The Sportscar Engine" |
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bugguy1967
Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2008
Posts: 4341
Location: Los Angeles, CA 90016
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| Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 4:24 pm Post subject: Re: 100x71 Type 4 Build For Local Course Racing |
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.180" trimmed off the bases and I still have .050" deck! I don't know where I messed up, but I need to trim another .005-.008" to get where I want to be.
Heads awaiting seats and porting:
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"A petrol engine can start readily, run smoothly and give every appearance of being in good order, without necessarily being in good tune." - Colin Campbell, "The Sportscar Engine" |
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