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late 40hp model dual relief case?
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Chickensoup
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:52 am    Post subject: late 40hp model dual relief case? Reply with quote

hello, i have heard of people that have a late model 1200cc case with dual relief. are these the reproduction cases or did they actually come in vw's?

thanks
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Albertoprop17
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 2:00 pm    Post subject: Re: late 40hp model dual relief case? Reply with quote

I've rebuilt a customer's 40hp engine and installed a 1400cc big bore kit on it, the case was a replacement one with dual relief.

That is the only one I saw
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Slow 1200
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 8:26 am    Post subject: Re: late 40hp model dual relief case? Reply with quote

yes, they came from the factory during the 70s, they also had same cylinder register as 1300/1500/1600 cases, so basically they are exactly the same as any other dual relief case but with a "D" engine number
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 8:43 am    Post subject: Re: late 40hp model dual relief case? Reply with quote

Slow 1200 wrote:
yes, they came from the factory during the 70s, they also had same cylinder register as 1300/1500/1600 cases, so basically they are exactly the same as any other dual relief case but with a "D" engine number


Yes, that's true, I'm running a 1600 with a D case in my oval, but the case I've mentioned before has 1200 cylinder register, the only one I've seen with dual relief and 87mm register.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 1:39 pm    Post subject: Re: late 40hp model dual relief case? Reply with quote

they are for the countries where 1200 have been sold after 1970. in italy they continue to sell them until 1986. there are in 87mm and 90mm register. most of them are with 10mm headstuds. some very late are also in 8mm
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Slow 1200
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 1:24 am    Post subject: Re: late 40hp model dual relief case? Reply with quote

I think the german cases changed to 90mm but the mexican ones went back to 87mm, or was it the other way around? Liar
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Alex Juszczyk
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 11:56 am    Post subject: Re: late 40hp model dual relief case? Reply with quote

Hi all, a bit of technical advice would be greatly appreciated.

I have one of these dual relief cases on a project Iím restoring. Itís got a piston diameter of 77mm and a stroke of 64mm making it a 1200. Iv been looking to increase the cc as the gearbox itís running is from a 1600gt with a very low final drive.

My real issue lies that the crank casing hole is 90mm+ and all the piston and sleeve sets Iv found are for a crank case hole of 87mm....

Any advice would be appreciated.
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grvwsic
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 3:56 pm    Post subject: Re: late 40hp model dual relief case? Reply with quote

Here is a site with a 90mm casing diameter and 77mm piston.

https://aapistons.com/collections/piston-liner-kit...late-model


Also, I found this newer dual relief case at a swap meet a few years ago. It was originally 1200 with the 87mm case hole but I had machine work done to it
It's aside at the moment for a future 1679cc project

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Alex Juszczyk
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 4:32 pm    Post subject: Re: late 40hp model dual relief case? Reply with quote

Hi grvwsic, thanks for the website listing.
Sadly thatís not what Iím looking for I wanted to increase the piston size from the 77mm that I already have (and was in that link) closer to the 1600cc mark to work better with the gearbox I have from a GT.
It says in that listing they will work with all 1600 late model cases, so surly I need to find some 1600 late model piston and cylinders where the case hole is 90mm? :s
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grvwsic
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 4:43 pm    Post subject: Re: late 40hp model dual relief case? Reply with quote

Ok. All 1600, 1641, 1679, piston and liner set should work for you. They are all 90mm
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 4:48 pm    Post subject: Re: late 40hp model dual relief case? Reply with quote

Unless you are looking for the big bore set -83mm piston /90mm case hole. I don't have any info on that.
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brass gears
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 7:40 pm    Post subject: Re: late 40hp model dual relief case? Reply with quote

I went through this on my Ď64. There is a difference between the wrist pin diameters. For the 77mm pistons, itís 20mm and for the 85.5 mm pistons itís 22mm. So, that wouldnít work with the connecting rods.
40 hp connecting rods are wider than those of the 1600. They can be machined down to fit a 69mm crankshaft.
If I were to do it again, I might have gone with changing the crank
The Tom Wilson book on rebuilding VW engines explains that.

-Rob
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 8:50 pm    Post subject: Re: late 40hp model dual relief case? Reply with quote

Yeah, I guess I didn't clearly understand the question. Is the request to get an upgrade in the size of the piston/cylinder bore that will also fit the 90mm case casing hole. If that's the question I have no info on that upgrade.

We do have that in the US with an 83mm 40hp big bore kit. But that works with the 87mm case casing hole.

For my own 1679cc project with the newer 40hp case, I completely agree with using a 69mm crankshaft.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 2:34 am    Post subject: Re: late 40hp model dual relief case? Reply with quote

Grvwsic; yeh increase from 1200 in that 90mm case

Rob; thanks there are some interesting points that you have brought to light!! Am I silly to think that the simplest way would be to machine the con rod to accept a 22mm pin and then it being thicker would surly be a bonus...? You wouldnít happen to know if the gudgeon pins on the 83mm bore piston are 20/22mm I would much prefer to go at least 85.5
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 2:43 am    Post subject: Re: late 40hp model dual relief case? Reply with quote

Alex Juszczyk wrote:
Grvwsic; yeh increase from 1200 in that 90mm case

Rob; thanks there are some interesting points that you have brought to light!! Am I silly to think that the simplest way would be to machine the con rod to accept a 22mm pin and then it being thicker would surly be a bonus...? You wouldnít happen to know if the gudgeon pins on the 83mm bore piston are 20/22mm I would much prefer to go at least 85.5


If you want a powerful engine that can move the gt gearbox, you should search a 69mm crank and rods and build a 1600 at least.

Or just build a 1400 with 1300 dual port heads, hi flow intake manifold with a 34 pict 3 carb, higher compression, a cam with more lift and duration than stock and a good 4-1 exhaust. There are a lot more upgrades to do, there are just the basics. With that combo (83x64) you will have an engine with much more power than a stock 1600/1641/1679
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brass gears
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 7:36 pm    Post subject: Re: late 40hp model dual relief case? Reply with quote

Alex Juszczyk wrote:
Grvwsic; yeh increase from 1200 in that 90mm case
... Am I silly to think that the simplest way would be to machine the con rod to accept a 22mm pin and then it being thicker would surly be a bonus...? You wouldnít happen to know if the gudgeon pins on the 83mm bore piston are 20/22mm I would much prefer to go at least 85.5


Good question. Never thought of that. I would post this question over in the Ďengine / performance Ď forum as there are really some really knowledgeable machinists fellas that could say wether that would be feasible. Right now, I donít see why not.

I guess the thing is the 64mm crank. Some say it is prone to cracking. And by increasing the displacement this way (using 83mm or larger) you increase this possibility.

My bug is really close to being stock, so I opted in the end just to go with those 77mm Euro cylinders because of the difficulty that you are now facing.
I also wonder if one could just go with the big bore 83mm and have some kind of spacer or something to take up that extra space. Or maybe it would be okay kinda floppy in the case?

-Rob
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2021 12:16 am    Post subject: Re: late 40hp model dual relief case? Reply with quote

brass gears wrote:

I also wonder if one could just go with the big bore 83mm and have some kind of spacer or something to take up that extra space. Or maybe it would be okay kinda floppy in the case?


There is a 83mm big bore kit avaliable from AA for post 71 1200 engines.

It is the best choice for his build, simple and very effective, no need to go to 85.5 or larger, that's too much effort for the tiny gain it will provide[/b]
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2021 2:05 am    Post subject: Re: late 40hp model dual relief case? Reply with quote

Albertoprop17; I think you have hit the nail on the head!!!! Please have a look at the listing below, I havenít seen any reference to this fitting on the 90mm case. I will contact to find out. But hopefully you have cracked it.

Brass gears; this idea of spacers or spigot rings has come up a couple of times. It couldnít just be left to float but I think we are getting closer to an idea that might work for a while

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2021 2:10 am    Post subject: Re: late 40hp model dual relief case? Reply with quote

https://aapistons.com/collections/piston-liner-kit...l-european

Here you have it, I think you can find them on your local aircooled shop
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Alex Juszczyk
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2021 4:16 am    Post subject: Re: late 40hp model dual relief case? Reply with quote

Albertoprop17; you are an absolute gent!!!!

Thank you so much. Iv contacted loads of uk dealerships and itís not a common product over here but I think Iv found one AA dealership so fingers crossed at the moment but itís looking promising.

Iím assuming this is the simplest way to give the engine some extra ďgeegeezĒ to handle that gt box?
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