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dustymojave Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2007 Posts: 5802 Location: Lake LA, Mojave Desert, SoCal
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Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 7:17 pm Post subject: Re: Satellite Guy's build page |
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JWHracing wrote: |
I would stick to the 1" OD tube for the shock bolt bung. My towers use two pieces of 1.5 x .095 bent, with the 1" bung welded in between the two, and then a piece of 1" x 1/8 plate as a gusset over the top to help keep things together. A piece of .250 1" for the bolt bung will be much stronger than 1.5" with washers welded in it. |
^^^^^ _________________ Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet. |
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dustymojave Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2007 Posts: 5802 Location: Lake LA, Mojave Desert, SoCal
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Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 7:20 pm Post subject: Re: Satellite Guy's build page |
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JWHracing wrote: |
Personally I would get rid of those bump stops. To me they look like they would bend/break very easy on a hard hit. Then it would transfer a load into the arm which could cause a premature failure in the arm and that's not a good thing either.
I use the rubber bumper on my shocks for the bump stop. The key for this being okay is proper shock set up and tuning, correct spring rates, and the right cross over adjustment for the lower spring engagement. |
I agree with all of this.
JWH, I was looking at your pictures of the front of your Bug...WOW! You've really changed a few things since I 1st saw your Bug with it's fresh blue and gold paint and stock ball joint beam... _________________ Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet. |
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JWHracing Samba Member
Joined: September 17, 2008 Posts: 234 Location: Mesa, AZ
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Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 8:35 pm Post subject: Re: Satellite Guy's build page |
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dustymojave wrote: |
JWHracing wrote: |
Personally I would get rid of those bump stops. To me they look like they would bend/break very easy on a hard hit. Then it would transfer a load into the arm which could cause a premature failure in the arm and that's not a good thing either.
I use the rubber bumper on my shocks for the bump stop. The key for this being okay is proper shock set up and tuning, correct spring rates, and the right cross over adjustment for the lower spring engagement. |
I agree with all of this.
JWH, I was looking at your pictures of the front of your Bug...WOW! You've really changed a few things since I 1st saw your Bug with it's fresh blue and gold paint and stock ball joint beam... |
Its never been a ball joint car. it's a 65. but yes, it has come so much further than i ever planned with it. its a full race car now with the occasional weekend play time and street rip. _________________ 65 Baja - Class 5 Unlimited Race Car
2021 STORR Pro Air Cooled Buggy Champion
2019 AZOP Unlimited Buggy Champion
2017 SADR 1300 Class Champion
2016 AZOP Limited Buggy Champion
Currently "retired" from racing |
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BajaBoy7 Samba Member
Joined: February 06, 2008 Posts: 38 Location: Rohnert Park, CA
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Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 9:20 am Post subject: Re: Satellite Guy's build page |
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I am in Cotati if you'd like to come take a look at how I did mine. Its just rotting away on the trailer at the moment. |
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thesatelliteguy Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2007 Posts: 1515 Location: Santa Rosa CA
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Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 9:24 am Post subject: Re: Satellite Guy's build page |
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I checked both of my local steel suppliers and neither of them have 1”x.250” tubing.
I found someone selling 1’ sticks on Amazon but it’s a 2 week wait.
1”x.120” with .75”x.120 inside of it, rosette welded together? I’m joking...kind of. _________________ Toyotas are so bumpy it makes me sick, literally.
My build Page http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=383878 |
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JWHracing Samba Member
Joined: September 17, 2008 Posts: 234 Location: Mesa, AZ
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thesatelliteguy Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2007 Posts: 1515 Location: Santa Rosa CA
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Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 11:23 am Post subject: Re: Satellite Guy's build page |
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Hell yeah!
Ill order a few of those today, looks like it'll be a week or so before i get them.
Until then, Im turning my attention to mounting the new Corbeau seats.
I got some universal seat sliders from Speedway Motors.
Trying to use what i already have, I was thinking some of this 1x1x.120 angle iron between the seat mount tabs. The top of the slider will bolt to the flat side on the angle iron. Then the bottom of the slider will bolt to tabs that are welded to 1.5" round tube that is welded to the lower door bar of the roll cage and the center hump. A 4"x4" .120" piece of plate will first be welded to the center hump for more support. (the square tube in the pic is only for mock up)
Will that 1x1x.120" angle be suitable mounting material?
Im really starting to see that just hard mounting my seats with out the sliders would have been cheaper and a lot easier.
Once that is done, or maybe first, I wanted to start exploring ideas for gusseting the cage to the body. Ive seen the gussets at the A pillar and B pillar that are basically a piece of plate steel welded between the pillar and the cage, sometimes incorporating some dimple die holes. I like that look for a race car, but I'm building mine to be more of a daily driver. Plus I don't have the dimple die. So, i came up with this idea.
On the B pillar i would have 2 more gussets per side that would attach right below the rear side window and right above it.
_________________ Toyotas are so bumpy it makes me sick, literally.
My build Page http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=383878 |
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thesatelliteguy Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2007 Posts: 1515 Location: Santa Rosa CA
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Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 11:24 am Post subject: Re: Satellite Guy's build page |
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BajaBoy7 wrote: |
I am in Cotati if you'd like to come take a look at how I did mine. Its just rotting away on the trailer at the moment. |
Aww dam i just saw this. ill pm you _________________ Toyotas are so bumpy it makes me sick, literally.
My build Page http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=383878 |
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thesatelliteguy Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2007 Posts: 1515 Location: Santa Rosa CA
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Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2021 6:16 pm Post subject: Re: Satellite Guy's build page |
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Got my seats mounted on some 7” adjusters!
Got the B pillar cross bar bent and notched.
Just added some B pillar supports but not sure I want to keep them. They seem like a threat to the funny bone. I know, padding. But that will interfere with the seat movement on the adjusters. Although I guess there won’t be a lot of seat movement.
The shock bungs came in. I got the front mocked up and in place. I bought some 1” tube thinking I could just do straight runs and pay a shop for those 2 J bends. But I decided to just bite the bullet and buy the 1” die. So it’ll be a few more weeks before that arrives.
_________________ Toyotas are so bumpy it makes me sick, literally.
My build Page http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=383878 |
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dustymojave Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2007 Posts: 5802 Location: Lake LA, Mojave Desert, SoCal
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Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 8:58 pm Post subject: Re: Satellite Guy's build page |
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thesatelliteguy wrote: |
...
Got the B pillar cross bar bent and notched.
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I give the DustyMojave Seal of Approval for the Shoulder Bar. You have located it properly.
I see SO MANY mounted down by the middle of the driver's back or lower. Those installations with low shoulder belt mounts threaten to break the driver and passenger's backs with compression fractures due to all of their weight or inertia being restrained by the belts. With the belts mounted at or near the level of the shoulders, they don't hold you DOWN in the seats. The lap belts are for that purpose. I find that even many people selling belts do NOT understand that.
Anyway...Good Job! _________________ Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet. |
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dustymojave Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2007 Posts: 5802 Location: Lake LA, Mojave Desert, SoCal
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Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2021 12:21 am Post subject: Re: Satellite Guy's build page |
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thesatelliteguy wrote: |
The shock bungs came in. I got the front mocked up and in place. I bought some 1” tube thinking I could just do straight runs and pay a shop for those 2 J bends. But I decided to just bite the bullet and buy the 1” die. So it’ll be a few more weeks before that arrives. |
Now to deal with the shock mounts:
Now that you've spent the $$ for the 1" die set, you really don't need it for this job. You don't need curved tubes like JWH has.
Try this style
Not a single bend. 3 tubes for 3-dimensional support. Simple to make. EZ to do both sides the same. _________________ Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet. |
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thesatelliteguy Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2007 Posts: 1515 Location: Santa Rosa CA
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Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2021 11:52 am Post subject: Re: Satellite Guy's build page |
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Thanks Dusty. I’ve been trying to impose the best safety precautions possible. I think I might move the lap belt mount tabs back a little bc I am not getting quite the angle I want. But this is a huge improvement over the last seat/belt set up I had where the shoulder belts were attached to the floor lol. Glad I never got into any major wreck with that set up.
As far as the shock mounts go. I called jd2 yesterday and they said my order was back ordered for about another 4 weeks. So I decided to just give it a go with straight tubing.
I like the way that blue rail has its shock mounts set up. Unfortunately my chassis tubing isn’t in quite the same location, mine is a lot higher up. So I think I need to go about it in a different manner. _________________ Toyotas are so bumpy it makes me sick, literally.
My build Page http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=383878 |
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thesatelliteguy Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2007 Posts: 1515 Location: Santa Rosa CA
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Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2021 11:13 am Post subject: Re: Satellite Guy's build page |
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So I got restless yesterday and built my shock mounts. I changed the 4 tubes that come down and attach to the upper beam tube. I spread them out to get the attachment point closer the the wheel. No bent beams!!!(fingers crossed)
I threw some more tube at it and came up with this single sheer setup. Hopefully it works out. I can always throw even more tube at it.
Time to fully weld the beam into its new home. I decided to remove the trailing arms and the Deltin bushings it has in it prior to welding. Boy did I run into some problems! I’ve had a hard time getting trailing arms out before but 2 of the 4 had the hammered out with some 1” tube and a 8 lb sledge hammer. The last one took forever!!
So that makes me cautious about reusing the delrin bushings. They didn’t get beat up too bad during removal, but the suspension was always very resistant to cycling during mock up.
Also, this is the first time I’ve ever worked with a link pin suspension so I have no idea what I’m doing taking it apart. I don’t think I’m going to get into it too deep. I just needed to take the spindle off the trailing arms to get them out of the beam.
_________________ Toyotas are so bumpy it makes me sick, literally.
My build Page http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=383878 |
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JWHracing Samba Member
Joined: September 17, 2008 Posts: 234 Location: Mesa, AZ
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Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:12 pm Post subject: Re: Satellite Guy's build page |
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You are right to remove everything prior to welding. Especially the bushings. The arms should move freely inside the bushing. Not overly loose, but not tight where they won't move with their own weight. There is a proper way to set all of the suspension up.
I would order new bushings once you're finished welding. The delrin ones should slide right in with light tapping. I can tap mine in with the palm of my hand. I use the grease zerks to hold them in place and prevent them from rotating. If you have to start hammering them in, they are too tight for the beam and not the right size. You will break the shoulders tapping them in that way. Ask me how I know...
Once you have the bushings in, put the arms in, they should be able to move easily. If not then they need to be reamed. Once all 4 arms are good, then its time for the through rods. The arms should be able to still move just the same as without the rods. Then its time for the link pins and spindles. The link pins themselves don't get tightened down with the nuts on the end of them. Once you have the proper shim set up, the nut helps pull the link pin through the spindle into the arm. It is there as a back up to the pinch bolt, but not there to hold the link pin in the arm. I like to tighten my link pins snug with the nut, and then back the nut off a bit. Then tighten down the pinch bolts. The arms should still move freely at this point. If you do it step by step, you will know where the problem is. If the arms moved without the link pins and spindles, then the shims are wrong or the link pins are too tight. There will likely be a lot of trial and error, and taking it apart more than once to get it right. _________________ 65 Baja - Class 5 Unlimited Race Car
2021 STORR Pro Air Cooled Buggy Champion
2019 AZOP Unlimited Buggy Champion
2017 SADR 1300 Class Champion
2016 AZOP Limited Buggy Champion
Currently "retired" from racing |
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thesatelliteguy Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2007 Posts: 1515 Location: Santa Rosa CA
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Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2021 1:22 pm Post subject: Re: Satellite Guy's build page |
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JWHracing wrote: |
,but not tight where they won't move with their own weight. |
Thats what I thought. This whole time setting up the suspension I was struggling to lift the arms. Like, get a dead lift stance and power lift the trailing arms up. lol
And thank you for walking me through the fitting and reaming process. I just finished reading through a lot of previous threads about how to correctly install Delrin and it makes a lot more sense to me now.
Not sure how much oversize to go with tho. I read that .020" over what my beam and arms measure is a good starting point.
For the OD of the bushings, i assume i take the largest measurement from measuring the ID of my beam, and add .020" (I measured 1.756,1.755, 1.760, 1.756, so id order 1.760 +.020 = 1.780)
For the ID of the bushing i take the smallest measurement from measuring my training arms and subtract .020" from it. (1.457, 1.459, 1.458, 1.457, so id order 1.457 - .020" = 1.437)
Does that seem correct?
Then make a makeshift lathe out of my drill press and keep sanding the OD of the bushing until it fits nice and snug into the beam.
I just noticed that Kartek doesn't post the ID of the bushings. _________________ Toyotas are so bumpy it makes me sick, literally.
My build Page http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=383878 |
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JWHracing Samba Member
Joined: September 17, 2008 Posts: 234 Location: Mesa, AZ
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Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2021 1:44 pm Post subject: Re: Satellite Guy's build page |
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1.780 is way too big. I use 1.750 OD in my beam. I would break the 1.760 bushings putting them in.
The ID to me doesn't matter as much. If you buy the right bushings, they are made for the arms you are using. Usually you have to ream them because they compress and shrink the ID a bit when they are installed in the beam.
When I do my 1.750 Saco bushings, my arms fit perfectly inside of them. I have not had to ream the 1.750. I would have to ream the 1.760 because of the tighter fit in the beam itself, which I believe would slightly shrink the ID. I just did a full prep on my front end with all new bushings, I simply took the grease zerks out of the beam, and pulled the old bushings out with a pair of pliers. Smacked the new ones in with the palm of my hand and reinstalled the zerks. Arms went back in with a little tap with a rubber mallet and moved on their own with no play. They were "just right". _________________ 65 Baja - Class 5 Unlimited Race Car
2021 STORR Pro Air Cooled Buggy Champion
2019 AZOP Unlimited Buggy Champion
2017 SADR 1300 Class Champion
2016 AZOP Limited Buggy Champion
Currently "retired" from racing |
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thesatelliteguy Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2007 Posts: 1515 Location: Santa Rosa CA
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Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2021 8:53 am Post subject: Re: Satellite Guy's build page |
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Finally got the delrin bushings in. I’m Using the grease zirks to hold the bushings in place.
The arms slid right in with a little resistance but once they were in place, they were loose. Not loose with a lot of play. But about as loos as you’d like it. So that was nice.
When I was putting the thru rod in I noticed the ends were bent a little bit, some threads were chewed up, the clamp nuts were pretty deformed and there wasn’t a washer between the nut and trailing arm. I figured that warranted new thru rod and nuts, so I ordered this promptly.
I put it together with the old thru rods anyway. I really wanted to see it on the ground. So, here she is!
_________________ Toyotas are so bumpy it makes me sick, literally.
My build Page http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=383878 |
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thesatelliteguy Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2007 Posts: 1515 Location: Santa Rosa CA
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Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2021 6:55 pm Post subject: Re: Satellite Guy's build page |
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I want to start getting the steering set up. I already had most all the parts needed to get er done. So I started going about getting it all put in and I’ve decided that I’m just not comfortable doing that without the pedals in there being that the steering shaft has to kind of sneak in between the pedals. So I did my research and ordered the Wilwood clutch/brake pedal set with dual brake master cylinders and a bias balance bar. Those should be here mid week so until then I started in on the rear suspension. It’s been on the back of my mind for a few days and I realized I should get that ball rolling too since it’s almost time to turn my full attention to it. So I removed the axles and the trailing arms. I took the old bearings out of the old trailing arms degreased them and put them into the new trailing arms. I think I’ll order new ones but I just wanna use those for mock up.
I have around 12” of travel. I was really hoping for more like 14”. It looks like I could cut away the stock bump stop and might get a little more upward travel, but it looks like it’s getting close to bottoming out the chassis into the ground if I let it go up more. I’m aiming for about 3” between flat ground and the (soon to be there) skid plate when the suspension is fully compressed. But I also haven’t gotten into measuring cv angle yet. So that’s another factor. I have type 4 CVs btw which I’m told will handle up to 22 degrees vs 25 degrees for the 930’s, which I won’t be buying...hopefully. _________________ Toyotas are so bumpy it makes me sick, literally.
My build Page http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=383878
Last edited by thesatelliteguy on Sat Mar 13, 2021 7:36 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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thesatelliteguy Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2007 Posts: 1515 Location: Santa Rosa CA
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thesatelliteguy Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2007 Posts: 1515 Location: Santa Rosa CA
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Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2021 2:50 pm Post subject: Re: Satellite Guy's build page |
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I found out that I should have spring plate eliminators instead of stock spring plates. I ordered a set of those which will be here next week, so the back end is on hold.
But the pedals came in so I could start working on the front again.
I cut out a giant hole in the foot well for the pedals. I made some temp brackets to hold the pedals in place with the master cylinders attached. After adjusting a few times I finally found a place I liked.
Then it was time to mock up the steering shaft. I bought a $5, 10 foot stick of 1/2” EMT conduit for mock up purposes, no sense in cutting up the $100 5 foot stick of chromoly. With the steering wheel bearing set on the crossbar of the roll cage, I was able to work my way back to the rack and pinion. It was relatively simple and only took me about two hours. But there are some really tight clearances. I think I’ll drop the petals down another half inch.
I discovered I needed another set of splines and another U joint. So I ordered those and they should be here next week.
Back to the waiting game. _________________ Toyotas are so bumpy it makes me sick, literally.
My build Page http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=383878 |
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