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oscarsnapkin Samba Member
Joined: October 22, 2013 Posts: 558 Location: Bucks County, PA
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Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:29 am Post subject: I destroyed transmission input seal trying to remove, now what? |
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Chalk it up to a case of “while I have this apart I might as well change this...” So I have my transmission sitting on a bench because I wanted to clean up and grease the clutch operating shaft while I have the engine out. I figured, while I’m in here, I might as well change the trans. input shaft seal. I tapped the seal puller into the seal, and I had a nice tight grip on it. I had to pull as hard as I could and it didn’t budge. All I did was tear the seal apart. I tried getting at it from a few different angles, but it is too difficult to access. I even put a ding in the transmission surface near the seal, but it is outside of where the seal sits, so it shouldn’t be a problem as long as I smooth it out before ‘hopefully’ pressing in a new one. The puller below is similar to what I used. I tried tearing it out with needle nose vise grips and a small screwdriver, but I don’t think I’m getting anywhere and I’m worried about causing more damage. Any thoughts? Is there a different type of puller that might work better? I was thinking about trying to use a needle bearing puller on a slide hammer, but I think the puller might be too big. I wish I would have left the stupid thing alone.
_________________ - 1977 CEI Sunroof Bus 2.0L F.I. Hydraulic Lifters
- 1973 Thing
"It’s so easy to laugh, it’s so easy to hate, it takes strength to be gentle and kind." |
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Cusser Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006 Posts: 31379 Location: Hot Arizona
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Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:35 am Post subject: Re: I destroyed transmission input seal trying to remove, now what? |
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Screw in three screws
Use a Vise-Grip pliers, pull on the three screws, working from on screw to the other
_________________ 1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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raydog Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2006 Posts: 1163 Location: Cape Cod
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Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:13 am Post subject: Re: I destroyed transmission input seal trying to remove, now what? |
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There's no turning back now. Do what Cusser said, or start picking away or cut at the rubber part of the seal and remove the bits to better see the metal housing. You can also use a sacrificial screwdriver. Heat up the tip and form a hook on the end of it . Get it in behind the seal, hook on to it and pull around the perimeter. |
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MrGoodtunes Samba Member
Joined: May 14, 2012 Posts: 852 Location: South Florida
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Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:01 am Post subject: Re: I destroyed transmission input seal trying to remove, now what? |
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There's an awful lot of crunge all around the outside circumfrence of the old seal, and it's sort of welding (or at least sort of holding) seal in place. Use a knife to scrape that crap outa there, maybe even push the pointed end of your strong thin knife between seal and inside of cylindrical housing it's in. And don't be afraid to tap the seal a wee bit inward to help break it loose, so it's ready to move back in place and then out. |
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Cusser Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006 Posts: 31379 Location: Hot Arizona
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Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:20 am Post subject: Re: I destroyed transmission input seal trying to remove, now what? |
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Hook tool might help; such as Harbor Freight. I find these quite handy.
_________________ 1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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Meiang Samba Member
Joined: September 27, 2016 Posts: 656 Location: Perth, Western Australia
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Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:21 am Post subject: Re: I destroyed transmission input seal trying to remove, now what? |
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You can use a camshaft/crankshaft seal puller attached to a drilled washer (this slides over the output shaft) and then use a bearing puller attached to the washer to extract the seal.
A good tip is to slide some acetate sheeting between the seal and the shaft to protect the shaft from any damage form the pullers.
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miller0358 Samba Member
Joined: November 07, 2007 Posts: 1200 Location: northford,ct
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Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:24 pm Post subject: Re: I destroyed transmission input seal trying to remove, now what? |
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I always had good luck with using just the screws |
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infiniteLoop Samba Member
Joined: October 09, 2020 Posts: 265 Location: Empire State
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Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:40 pm Post subject: Re: I destroyed transmission input seal trying to remove, now what? |
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What about using a soldering iron like a windshield remover tool? Go around the circumference at one spot so you can peel the rest out. Also , a heated end of a screwdriver would work if it was filed down not to damage the bore. |
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goober Samba Member
Joined: May 03, 2003 Posts: 1183
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Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:22 pm Post subject: Re: I destroyed transmission input seal trying to remove, now what? |
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If all else fails it might be easier to remove the side cover, differential and unscrew the input shaft to get it out of the way. |
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Zundfolge1432 Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2004 Posts: 12468
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Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:05 pm Post subject: Re: I destroyed transmission input seal trying to remove, now what? |
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goober wrote: |
If all else fails it might be easier to remove the side cover, differential and unscrew the input shaft to get it out of the way. |
Reminds me of a song I heard once about going through someone’s butthole to pull a molar.
This is actually a cotter pin or key puller, it’s strong. The object here is to insert this about a half inch and get behind the seal and pull. You might try at 6 o’clock then 12 o’clock. Sometimes after years they get stuck but this tool never fails.
Here’s a better pic
So the name of the game here is get behind the seal rather than pick at the surface and having a hook type tool will aid you in doing this.
Here’s the old seal you can see where the hook got a bite on it.
Use a German Elring seal and lube the seal and shaft when going back in. Even a little lube around the perimeter. Never try to seal a dry hole😀 |
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platatomi Samba Member
Joined: August 09, 2012 Posts: 465 Location: Los Angeles, California
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Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:50 pm Post subject: Re: I destroyed transmission input seal trying to remove, now what? |
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The seal has an outer metal ring behind that rubber surface. What ended up working for me after it was torn up was hooking the spike from the seal puller up under and behind that ring at around the 12 o'clock position on the seal. It popped out the first pull. _________________ '69 Beetle daily driver, fixing things as I go...
Update -
No longer daily driver but still fixing things... |
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Zundfolge1432 Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2004 Posts: 12468
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Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:48 pm Post subject: Re: I destroyed transmission input seal trying to remove, now what? |
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Excellent sign that one off😀 |
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AutoMechanic Samba Member
Joined: December 28, 2019 Posts: 483 Location: Roanoke Virginia
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Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 2:15 pm Post subject: Re: I destroyed transmission input seal trying to remove, now what? |
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Either the screw or pick method would be best. I would get some other picks than the Harbor Freight ones though those are like butter they break very easily. |
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oscarsnapkin Samba Member
Joined: October 22, 2013 Posts: 558 Location: Bucks County, PA
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Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2021 3:05 pm Post subject: Re: I destroyed transmission input seal trying to remove, now what? |
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Thanks for all the tips. I’m gonna have to put it on hold for a bit to I figure something out. This sucker is stuck. I tried a cotter pin puller as suggested, and all it wound up doing was bending the tool. Screw technique didn’t work either, screws just pulled out when I really tugged on them. I’ve been cleaning all the rubber out with a small pick to expose more of the metal. I think my best bet is going to be something that attaches to a slide hammer. My pilot bearing puller is just a tiny bit too big and I’m worried it’ll damage the shaft. The car is nowhere near running so I have plenty of time. I’ll update when I have success (or catastrophic failure) in case some other poor soul has the same problem down the road. This is what it did to my cotter pin puller.
This air chisel attachment looks awesome, but I can’t justify $92. Thanks again for the great info.
_________________ - 1977 CEI Sunroof Bus 2.0L F.I. Hydraulic Lifters
- 1973 Thing
"It’s so easy to laugh, it’s so easy to hate, it takes strength to be gentle and kind." |
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Dark Earth Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2015 Posts: 1054
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Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2021 3:45 pm Post subject: Re: I destroyed transmission input seal trying to remove, now what? |
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I think somebody glued that thing in with some really tough stuff. If it were me, I'd drill out the front face of the seal so you're only left with the part that's glued in. At that point, you'll be able to drive something skinny in between whats left of the seal and the trans case. Whats left of the seal will bend easier with the front material removed. Then it will be a matter of peeling it out. The only danger is damaging the trans case, so you have to be careful. Whoever glued this in left a ticking time bomb. _________________ My Build: '69 Baja - Dark Earth Version
~I'm almost done. I just lack finishing up.~ |
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infiniteLoop Samba Member
Joined: October 09, 2020 Posts: 265 Location: Empire State
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Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2021 4:37 pm Post subject: Re: I destroyed transmission input seal trying to remove, now what? |
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If you can force the seal outer ring all the way in and have room ,than you can crush it down with pliers and remove it.
Or maybe you could make your own mini bushing cutter. |
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AutoMechanic Samba Member
Joined: December 28, 2019 Posts: 483 Location: Roanoke Virginia
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Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 7:48 pm Post subject: Re: I destroyed transmission input seal trying to remove, now what? |
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Wow sorry those methods didn’t work. Hopefully you can get it all the way out. |
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74 Thing Samba Member
Joined: September 02, 2004 Posts: 7394
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Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 10:56 pm Post subject: Re: I destroyed transmission input seal trying to remove, now what? |
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Screw with a slide hammer? |
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Blue69Baja Samba Member
Joined: September 04, 2008 Posts: 1065 Location: Fair Oaks
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Posted: Sat Feb 27, 2021 10:55 am Post subject: Re: I destroyed transmission input seal trying to remove, now what? |
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No matter what you do you have to be careful not to scratch the outer contact surface of the seal. If you scratch the aluminum seal contact surface.
The screws have always worked for me and my bud! _________________ 69 Baja with a 1914...
72 Super 100% orig...W/ factory air... 56,000mi
Even the spare is original.. |
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oscarsnapkin Samba Member
Joined: October 22, 2013 Posts: 558 Location: Bucks County, PA
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Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2021 7:21 am Post subject: Re: I destroyed transmission input seal trying to remove, now what? |
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raydog wrote: |
There's no turning back now. Do what Cusser said, or start picking away or cut at the rubber part of the seal and remove the bits to better see the metal housing. You can also use a sacrificial screwdriver. Heat up the tip and form a hook on the end of it . Get it in behind the seal, hook on to it and pull around the perimeter. |
I owe you a beer my friend. After spending tons of time trying to dissect this seal and trying to split it to get it out, I gave the screwdriver technique a try. I had it out in about 10 minutes. I bought a cheap Hatbor Freight flat head, heated it up and made a hook at the end. With the help of Vise Grips and a hammer it was out. I did bang up the bore a bit when I initially used the seal puller, but it seems to be near the outside edge, not where the seal sits, so I should be OK. I’m assuming I should put some Permatex or something similar on the new seal just to be safe. Any recommendations? Thanks a million.
_________________ - 1977 CEI Sunroof Bus 2.0L F.I. Hydraulic Lifters
- 1973 Thing
"It’s so easy to laugh, it’s so easy to hate, it takes strength to be gentle and kind." |
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