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8 doweling a stock crank and flywheel-needed?
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Madscientist2
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 5:38 pm    Post subject: 8 doweling a stock crank and flywheel-needed? Reply with quote

Iíve built up the case already on a 1584 cc engine. Put in a performance cam, ratio rockers, porting the heads, dual ICT carbs, and other updates. I didnít update the crank or flywheel to 8 dowels. From what Iíve learned the engine should produce about 75 HP. I do not plan to rev it higher than 4500 rpm. Questions: do I need 8 dowels? And, since the crank is already installed in the case halves, if I should 8 dowel, can the crank be drilled when in the case. No heads or cylinders installed yet.
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Glenn Premium Member
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 6:01 pm    Post subject: Re: 8 doweling a stock crank and flywheel-needed? Reply with quote

4 will be fine.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 6:13 pm    Post subject: Re: 8 doweling a stock crank and flywheel-needed? Reply with quote

I concur.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 6:25 pm    Post subject: Re: 8 doweling a stock crank and flywheel-needed? Reply with quote

Torque it properly.
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Madscientist2
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 7:10 pm    Post subject: Re: 8 doweling a stock crank and flywheel-needed? Reply with quote

Torque of 250 ft-lbs, or more?
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Madscientist2
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 7:14 pm    Post subject: Re: 8 doweling a stock crank and flywheel-needed? Reply with quote

Should the gland nut be installed with loctite? Standard washer or oversized empi washer?
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 11:59 pm    Post subject: Re: 8 doweling a stock crank and flywheel-needed? Reply with quote

Get a better gland nut and wash her.
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madmike
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2021 4:45 am    Post subject: Re: 8 doweling a stock crank and flywheel-needed? Reply with quote

If its for a off road buggy then yes on more dowels Wink
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2021 4:59 am    Post subject: Re: 8 doweling a stock crank and flywheel-needed? Reply with quote

Stock torque value is fine as is the stock 4 dowels. With the cam change you in all likely hood have not increased the engine's torque from stock. The only way you will brake the dowel connection with that engine is to get stupid on the clutch with big sticky tires.

I have put together quite a few stock 1584s in the past with the stock parts and torque values, no Loctite and have never had one fail.
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Madscientist2
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2021 7:04 am    Post subject: Re: 8 doweling a stock crank and flywheel-needed? Reply with quote

I did get the empi chromoly gland nut with a large cupped washer. First time I put it together, the washer lost its cupped shape and got flat. The head of the nut dug into the washer quite notably. So when I put it together the last time I used the empi nut but with the stock washer. On the other question, this is not for an off road application
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Brian_e
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2021 9:38 am    Post subject: Re: 8 doweling a stock crank and flywheel-needed? Reply with quote

I have never built an engine WITHOUT doing the 8 dowels, but I have taken apart quite a few bone stock 4 dowel engines with messed up cranks and flywheels.

Brian
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oprn
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2021 11:36 am    Post subject: Re: 8 doweling a stock crank and flywheel-needed? Reply with quote

You cannot blame the stock flywheel connection without knowledge of history of the failure. Some guys can break a crowbar in a sandbox!
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2021 11:43 am    Post subject: Re: 8 doweling a stock crank and flywheel-needed? Reply with quote

Are you going to do burn outs in the parking lot LOL !!!!!!!!
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Brian_e
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2021 1:26 pm    Post subject: Re: 8 doweling a stock crank and flywheel-needed? Reply with quote

oprn wrote:
You cannot blame the stock flywheel connection without knowledge of history of the failure. Some guys can break a crowbar in a sandbox!


I am not blaming a shitty mechanic, or abuse, just pointing out an inherently weak connection, known to fail even on stock engines. This guy has done things to his engine that will hopefully increase the power over a stock engine, making the already weak connection even weaker. I agree, and have seen guys who can break anything. Those guys are helpless regardless of what is done to their junk.

Porsche used 8 dowels on their engines that were a similar output to what his engine might be. Maybe they knew what they were doing??

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Ohio Tom
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2021 1:43 pm    Post subject: Re: 8 doweling a stock crank and flywheel-needed? Reply with quote

I have seen too many stock gland nuts strip out and ruin 4 dowels.

Fault of many things...


I always 8-dowel. I have the fixture and can do the crank and flywheel as a unit. I can even do it with the motor assembled.
Always use a Chromoly gland nut too.

Just extra insurance that it will never fail.
Cheap and easy to do....
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Brian_e
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2021 1:47 pm    Post subject: Re: 8 doweling a stock crank and flywheel-needed? Reply with quote

Ohio Tom wrote:

Just extra insurance that it will never fail.
Cheap and easy to do....


EXACTLY!!
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 2:08 am    Post subject: Re: 8 doweling a stock crank and flywheel-needed? Reply with quote

Make sure the dowels don't stick up past the flywheel or it wont torque proper.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 4:59 am    Post subject: Re: 8 doweling a stock crank and flywheel-needed? Reply with quote

The more the marrier to me. They sell 8-dowelling kit. GEt one. If you have a drill press, then you are golden.

8-dowelling helps the crank/flywheel mating a lot. YOu can use a stock glandnut too. Or upgrade to the HD kinds.

Hope this helps.
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Alstrup
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 5:11 am    Post subject: Re: 8 doweling a stock crank and flywheel-needed? Reply with quote

Madscientist2 wrote:
Iíve built up the case already on a 1584 cc engine. Put in a performance cam, ratio rockers, porting the heads, dual ICT carbs, and other updates. I didnít update the crank or flywheel to 8 dowels. From what Iíve learned the engine should produce about 75 HP. I do not plan to rev it higher than 4500 rpm. Questions: do I need 8 dowels? And, since the crank is already installed in the case halves, if I should 8 dowel, can the crank be drilled when in the case. No heads or cylinders installed yet.

As menthioned, 8 dowels is a good thing, but not absolutely nessessary, and not for the power window you are in. That said I would definitely replace that Empi gland nut and washer. Another item from that company that I will never use in its current quality. Scat, CB and even the HD ones AA sells are OK.
The reason to use the larger washer is that you apply clamping force to a much larger surface which reduce the risk of the flywheel bananing ever so slightly at the mating surface. Also, with a quality gland nut you can safely increase torque to 280 ft lbs.
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