Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts New!  See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
T5 resto back on track; now I know where all that grease went
Forum Index -> Porsche - 356 Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
William Crowell
Samba Member


Joined: February 15, 2011
Posts: 56
Location: Placerville, CA
William Crowell is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 9:47 am    Post subject: T5 resto back on track; now I know where all that grease went Reply with quote

After some delay, I am removing the final parts from my T5 in order to take it to the abrasive blaster.

My references are the Charlie White (RIP) FSM reprints, Henry Elfrink, Harry Pellow, Floyd Clymer and Autopress LTD.

When I used to grease the front end, I always wondered where all that grease went. Now I know: into the axle tubes. I managed to get the torsion bars out, and the needle bearings out of the ends of the tubes, but so far the plastic bushings don't seem to want to come out. There's still too much grease in there to see what's going on right now. I need to clean all the grease out so I can see the plastic bushings and whatever else is still inside, and because otherwise the abrasive blast will stick to the grease. This has to be one of the worst parts of a Porsche or VW resto.

So while I continue to clean the grease out, can anybody give me any suggestions about how to remove the plastic bushings? Also, are there any other parts inside the axle tube that I haven't discovered yet? Thanks a lot.

P.S.: After I removed more of the old grease, I discovered that you can't get the fiber bushings out until you remove the 4 grease nipples that protrude a little bit into the axle tubes. The center clamping piece is also still in there, and I guess you use that to drive out the fiber bushings(?)


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Last edited by William Crowell on Wed Mar 10, 2021 7:13 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Starbucket
Samba Member


Joined: April 30, 2007
Posts: 2600
Location: WA
Starbucket is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 3:51 pm    Post subject: Re: T5 resto back on track; now I know where all that grease went Reply with quote

Can't you put expanding rubber plugs in the end of the tubes to keep the grit out? I don't think the inner bushings see that much wear as there is little weight on them that's why Porsche didn't put needle bearings there I think.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
William Crowell
Samba Member


Joined: February 15, 2011
Posts: 56
Location: Placerville, CA
William Crowell is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 8:53 am    Post subject: How do you spell "relief"?: off to the blaster and body shop! Reply with quote

I used a long pipe to drive against the front axle tube center locking pieces in order to remove the fiber bushings.

Rear torsion bars are out now, too.

I've owned this car since 1973, when I was 26 years old. In the '80s I replaced the longitudinals, but I remember that the heat/defrost pipes and their supports inside were all rusted out. I didn't fix them at that time, and of course the heater and defroster never worked right. I'm going to fix them now.

I'm going to cut the longitudinals off today. I'll bet it will be Rust City inside.

Thanks starbucket for the tip on capping off the axle tubes before blasting. Will do.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
William Crowell
Samba Member


Joined: February 15, 2011
Posts: 56
Location: Placerville, CA
William Crowell is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2021 7:42 am    Post subject: Re: T5 resto back on track; now I know where all that grease went Reply with quote

The floor pans and unibody really weren't too rusty under the longitudinals, although the heater tube supports will need to be replaced.

I finally got every last thing off the body. That certainly was time-consuming and a lot of work. Wait, there is actually one more small doohickey that I wanted to ask you guys about before I remove it: what is that small, square electrical connector(?) at the top of the firewall (behind the dash) on the extreme left of the driver's side? I can post a picture if you need me to.

Now I'm just waiting for a break in the rain before taking the body, doors, hood, deck lid and bumpers over to the sandblaster.

After inspecting several cars they are working on, I am very impressed with metal finishing skills of Lance and Josh Lighthall of Lighthall Classics in Shingle Springs, CA. They are obviously able to bang and shrink that metal to make it go just where they want it to, and their painting skills are top-notch. They do like that base/clear paint, though, because it is so danged much more shiny than single stage, and all the other resto shops seem to be using it. What think you on that issue?

They have just about convinced me to shoot the underbody with PPG Delfleet One over DP90 epoxy primer, which is normally shiny and very, very un-stock-looking. Have you ever seen any 356s whose undersides were painted this way? The argument is that it preserves the car better, since the original factory undercoat didn't work very well; viz., so many of them rusted out. Any suggestions about how I should tint the Delfleet to make it look just a little bit more stock, so it won't be quite so glaringly glossy?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Starbucket
Samba Member


Joined: April 30, 2007
Posts: 2600
Location: WA
Starbucket is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2021 8:10 am    Post subject: Re: T5 resto back on track; now I know where all that grease went Reply with quote

William Crowell wrote:
The floor pans and unibody really weren't too rusty under the longitudinals, although the heater tube supports will need to be replaced.

I finally got every last thing off the body. That certainly was time-consuming and a lot of work. Wait, there is actually one more small doohickey that I wanted to ask you guys about before I remove it: what is that small, square electrical connector(?) at the top of the firewall (behind the dash) on the extreme left of the driver's side? I can post a picture if you need me to.

Now I'm just waiting for a break in the rain before taking the body, doors, hood, deck lid and bumpers over to the sandblaster.

After inspecting several cars they are working on, I am very impressed with metal finishing skills of Lance and Josh Lighthall of Lighthall Classics in Shingle Springs, CA. They are obviously able to bang and shrink that metal to make it go just where they want it to, and their painting skills are top-notch. They do like that base/clear paint, though, because it is so danged much more shiny than single stage, and all the other resto shops seem to be using it. What think you on that issue?





They have just about convinced me to shoot the underbody with PPG Delfleet One over DP90 epoxy primer, which is normally shiny and very, very un-stock-looking. Have you ever seen any 356s whose undersides were painted this way? The argument is that it preserves the car better, since the original factory undercoat didn't work very well; viz., so many of them rusted out. Any suggestions about how I should tint the Delfleet to make it look just a little bit more stock, so it won't be quite so glaringly glossy?


[/quote] I would use Woolwax undercoat on the underbody.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
William Crowell
Samba Member


Joined: February 15, 2011
Posts: 56
Location: Placerville, CA
William Crowell is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2021 8:30 am    Post subject: Re: T5 resto back on track; now I know where all that grease went Reply with quote

starbucket, if I understand the argument in favor of Delfleet correctly, it is that Delfleet prevents rust more or less permanently; while products like Woolwax will provide good protection for quite awhile, they don't last forever.

Now it is quite possible that I don't know WTH I am talking about, so if I need to be corrected, please let the lashes commence at this time.

I would like to hear everybody's comments about correctness vs. preservation, too.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Starbucket
Samba Member


Joined: April 30, 2007
Posts: 2600
Location: WA
Starbucket is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2021 9:54 am    Post subject: Re: T5 resto back on track; now I know where all that grease went Reply with quote

Woolwax is a rust invertor and preventer so it will change any rust that was missed into a primer and it seals out oxygen to prevent future rust. Woolwax was designed for out door industrial equipment that gets banged around while epoxy based finishes will tend to chip if a rock hits it letting in moisture.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
ensys
Samba Member


Joined: March 11, 2009
Posts: 322
Location: America's Automobile Heartland
ensys is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2021 10:43 pm    Post subject: Re: T5 resto back on track; now I know where all that grease went Reply with quote

Mr.Crowell:

While I am not familiar with Delfleet, I should imagine that something could be added to its mix to flatten it some.

Of course, there is that rock-chip thing, and a paint-only finish is not the way they came from the Factory.

Why not do the "kill two birds" thing and thoroughly undercoat the bottom after the paint?

I don't know that I would use the stuff the Factory used (unless this is to be a Concours restoration). I went with a rubberized product. It sticks well to hard-shell paint and if applied correctly, its resilient nature will provide enough cushion to protect the integrity of the paint.

Just $.02 from the cheap seats...
_________________
Keep 'em flying...

S.J.Szabo
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
William Crowell
Samba Member


Joined: February 15, 2011
Posts: 56
Location: Placerville, CA
William Crowell is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2021 7:18 am    Post subject: Re: T5 resto back on track; now I know where all that grease went Reply with quote

After abrasive blasting, I discovered that the body had several problems that were covered with Bondo, and of which I was therefore previously unaware. And it does need floor pans after all. But having seen several examples of their work, I am confident that Lance and Josh Lighthall can make it like new again.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Last edited by William Crowell on Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:07 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
William Crowell
Samba Member


Joined: February 15, 2011
Posts: 56
Location: Placerville, CA
William Crowell is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2021 7:35 am    Post subject: Re: T5 resto back on track; now I know where all that grease went Reply with quote

S.J. Szabo said: "Why not do the "kill two birds" thing and thoroughly undercoat the bottom after the paint?"

Mr. Szabo, thank you very kindly for your reply. Your knowledge of 356s never ceases to amaze me.

I think the argument goes like this: Delfleet is so strong and hard that it doesn't chip when hit by rocks like ordinary paint does, so you don't need to apply any undercoating material over it. I'm not sure if this is entirely true or not, but I think it must be true to some extent if the big trucking companies are going to all the trouble of painting the undersides of their trucks and trailers with it.

In the past I have had undercoating (even bed liner) start to detach from the paint after a long time. Then water starts collecting in the space between the undercoating and the paint. At this point, I feel like I want to eliminate that water-collecting interface. However, as I pointed out above, I am still learning about this and am open to suggestions as to what brand of undercoating would continue to adhere, rather than starting to fall off after awhile.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
William Crowell
Samba Member


Joined: February 15, 2011
Posts: 56
Location: Placerville, CA
William Crowell is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2021 12:56 pm    Post subject: Re: T5 resto back on track; now I know where all that grease went Reply with quote

Did you ever wonder exactly what the underside of the transmission tunnel looks like with the floor, the shift rod and all the cables removed?
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
William Crowell
Samba Member


Joined: February 15, 2011
Posts: 56
Location: Placerville, CA
William Crowell is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 2021 1:45 pm    Post subject: Re: T5 resto back on track; now I know where all that grease went Reply with quote

The floor pans are in, and a perimeter kit was installed.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
William Crowell
Samba Member


Joined: February 15, 2011
Posts: 56
Location: Placerville, CA
William Crowell is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 6:38 am    Post subject: Re: T5 resto back on track; now I know where all that grease went Reply with quote

Lance and Josh are installing the longitudinals.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
William Crowell
Samba Member


Joined: February 15, 2011
Posts: 56
Location: Placerville, CA
William Crowell is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:50 am    Post subject: Re: T5 resto back on track; now I know where all that grease went Reply with quote

Repairs were necessary in the longitudinal area.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Sebastian Gaeta
Samba Member


Joined: December 25, 2003
Posts: 208
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Sebastian Gaeta is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 2:50 pm    Post subject: Re: T5 resto back on track; now I know where all that grease went Reply with quote

William,

Very tidy work indeed, you have some real craftsmen on it!

Also a very nice touch with the German tubing in the longitudinals.
_________________
Sebastian Gaeta

'63 Beetle Turkis
64 Karmann Ghia Coupe Manilagelb/Black Roof
'64 356C cabriolet Signalrot
'65 356C coupe Rubinrot
'67 Karmann Ghia convertible Heliosblau
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Starbucket
Samba Member


Joined: April 30, 2007
Posts: 2600
Location: WA
Starbucket is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 6:58 pm    Post subject: Re: T5 resto back on track; now I know where all that grease went Reply with quote

Just think if you had a Faro Arm and recorded all those joints, stiffeners, and all the other bits and pieces you could 3 D Print a 356.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
William Crowell
Samba Member


Joined: February 15, 2011
Posts: 56
Location: Placerville, CA
William Crowell is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2021 4:21 pm    Post subject: Re: T5 resto back on track; now I know where all that grease went Reply with quote

"Very tidy work indeed, you have some real craftsmen on it!"

Yes, Lance and Josh are excellent metal men and painters who are deeply interested in 356s.

They are now installing new rocker panels.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Sebastian Gaeta
Samba Member


Joined: December 25, 2003
Posts: 208
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Sebastian Gaeta is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 12:27 pm    Post subject: Re: T5 resto back on track; now I know where all that grease went Reply with quote

This has got to be very exciting and rewarding. Nice shot of the dash, I love the early T5 with no clock. Did your car come with the Porsche script on the nose? The first few hundred T5 cars had the script and they are a different size from the A nose script and are not interchangeable. Just curious.
_________________
Sebastian Gaeta

'63 Beetle Turkis
64 Karmann Ghia Coupe Manilagelb/Black Roof
'64 356C cabriolet Signalrot
'65 356C coupe Rubinrot
'67 Karmann Ghia convertible Heliosblau
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
William Crowell
Samba Member


Joined: February 15, 2011
Posts: 56
Location: Placerville, CA
William Crowell is offline 

PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2021 6:18 pm    Post subject: Re: T5 resto back on track; now I know where all that grease went Reply with quote

I got tired of Lance Lighthall promising to do a certain amount of work for a certain price, but then demanding more money before doing the work he had promised to do for the money already paid while denying that ever entered into the prior agreement. He refused to put anything in writing, claimed he was working on a monthly "salary draw" and refused to specify an hourly labor rate. So I brought the car back home and now I'm looking for a different restoration shop. The quality of Lance's work is OK, but his business practices suck big time.

Then when you tell him you want to take your car home, in order to change your mind he tells you he's going to assert a big mechanic's lien against it before he will release it to you. But after you agree to pay his claimed lien under protest in order to obtain the return of your car, he backs down and doesn't assert a lien against it after all because he is not registered with the California Bureau of Automotive Repair, so he is precluded from filing a lien under Business and Professions Code Sec. 9884.16. Of course he is supposed to be registered with the BAR.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Porsche - 356 All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2020, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB