1.6 NA Diesel Passenger Side Exhaust Bracket Design.

[Vanagon Nut]

Shameless re post but with new subject title.

Hi folks.

On the 1.6 NA, do the bends in the passenger side exhaust bracket between engine and muffler strengthen the bracket? Or, are they there only to accommodate the position of bracket on the muffler?

I just noticed that detail after making and fitting this part. I could add a brace of some kind I guess. Maybe a length of flat steel on edge?

I made the bracket out of ~ 1/8" mild steel plate. This is for a 1.9 WBX muffler on an ABA engine but I bet someone else has had to make this part for the diesel.

Neil.


Shows bends I refer to

Not so easy to see in this etka or etka type image

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1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA

1988 West DIY 50º ABA

VE7TBN

[Zeitgeist 13]

Neil, I recently welded up a friend's AAZ w/JX broken muffler assembly and reviewing the pics he sent me prior to my work, I'd say those brackets are angled for fitment, and not for strengthening.
_________________
Casey--

'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik?

[Vanagon Nut]

Ok, thanks a lot for that Casey. Now that you mention different diesel engine block codes, maybe that 1.6 NA diesel muffler is made to fit other diesel Vanagon engines. Maye ones with wider oil pans? e.g. TD's built for the EU markets. But then maybe a TD uses a different muffler. One with larger passages? Anyhow....

The bracket I've made is probably wider overall than OE but then at 1/8" thick, it may be thinner than OE.

"Sweat'n the small stuff".....

Neil.
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1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA

1988 West DIY 50º ABA

VE7TBN

[82westyrabbit]

Hi Neil

I measured the bracket you were talking about and it is in fact just a shade over an 1/8th of an inch. the bends in the bracket are just for making it fit.

when ever I tried to use the stock diesel brackets the rubber muffler mounts would break shortly after I installed new ones.

after changing all the rubber exhaust hangers two or three times I gave up.

then I hung the muffler of these home made brackets. they sure are ugly but I think they were on the van for about 100,000 miles. now my exhaust is hanging of the body on FAS exhaust hanger kit. I don't like any of the options I've used so far. certainly the FAS kit is better then anything else I've tried on my own.


good luck
John

[Gnarlodious]

Only for fit. I’ve had to weld mine up a few times after side-to-side engine motion broke that piece.
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Vanagon ’83 diesel AAZ w/Giles injection, 5spd 4.57R&P+TBD and a '78 diesel Rabbit

[Vanagon Nut]

[Tbob]

Neil, before I built my exhaust for mine, I read about all the problems everyone was having with both diesels and conversion exhaust systems based on the diesel design. It seems to be a poor design. I decided that since the rubber engine mounts allow the engine to move on a longitudinal axis with the body/frame, that if the exhaust could be extended on that axis to allow it to flex over a longer length, that it would hopefully last. Since my Audi 2 exit exhaust manifold faced forward, I had the exhaust shop run the exhaust forward to the center of the van, do a u turn to the muffler, and exit out the rear under the driver's side taillite. I had them put one braided flex coupling just past the collector, and with 30,000 miles, no problems. The only downside to my system is that it runs near the drivers side inner CV joint, so I had to make a heat shield and heat tape the exhaust there.
I know your is almost built, but keep this in mind if yours causes trouble.
_________________
1969 Deluxe, owned since 1973
1973 Westfalia, owned since 1983
1980 Westfalia, watercooled conversion
1985 Westfalia, stock!
1986 Westfakia, Audi I-4 conversion
A couple of trucks and a couple of Jeeps

[Vanagon Nut]

[Tbob]

Neil, my exhaust does hang from the body on generic fabric and rubber straps procured at the local flaps. I also have one braided flex coupling as you describe. I have had no issues, other than what was caused by inept muffler shop(Loud "tuner" style muffler, exhaust pipe clearance issues. Once I cured those myself, like 10 years ago, it has been sterling. Still, good luck with your system. You have put a lot of thought into what you are doing, hope it works well for you!
_________________
1969 Deluxe, owned since 1973
1973 Westfalia, owned since 1983
1980 Westfalia, watercooled conversion
1985 Westfalia, stock!
1986 Westfakia, Audi I-4 conversion
A couple of trucks and a couple of Jeeps

[Vanagon Nut]

^^

thanks Tbob!

As promised (well, it's not really done yet...

The arrow points to a spot that I need to double check. Make sure that end isn't pushing up against the pan.

_________________
1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA

1988 West DIY 50º ABA

VE7TBN

[82westyrabbit]

Hi Neil. The last part van I bought had the exsust hangers just like yours. Instead of a clamp he ran springs around the muffler. It just gives a little more flexibility to the system. Just a thought. John

[Vanagon Nut]

So just to report back.

The Bosal rubber-metal-rubber mount at the passenger side arm has failed. Don't know at what mileage this happened but the exhaust has less than 30K miles. It failed early IMO.

Looking again at images of my bracket, maybe bracket length ("WBX" 1.9 muffler has larger OD than diesel muffler?) and high angle off oil pan are factors. Tail pipe is pretty long too.

Or, maybe those mounts just don't last that long.

Neil.
_________________
1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA

1988 West DIY 50º ABA

VE7TBN

[crazyvwvanman]

There is a later part for the right side, twice the size to help it last.

https://www.brickwerks.co.uk/brickwerks-blog/diesel-right-hand-exhaust-mounting-033251393a/

Mark

[ZsZ]

[?Waldo?]

I recently added a second isolator on the right side that helps reduce the twisting force on that single right side isolator. I did similar to the left side which has the second isolator on the top at an angle. The two additional brackets that I made to add the additional isolator bolt onto the existing parts.

The additional isolator cannot be seen in the pic, but its position can be surmised running fore-aft at an angle up toward the rear.

[Vanagon Nut]

Mark: very cool. Thanks. Would not have known about that upgraded isolator.

ZsZ: helpful to know what you saw for average life span of that isolator. i.e. early failure of that part may not be due to my fabrication or design "copy" of the DV exhaust.

?Waldo?: I made a similar part on my 15º ABA but with a steeper angle and more complex. 10's of thousands of miles later, a part of that bracket failed at a design flaw point. Having muffler mount points closer to center of the longer heavier 2.1 WBX muffler, didn't help either. Thanks for that pic.

On this 50º ABA in question with 1.9 WBX muffler, I'm hoping that the isolators at OE diesel Vanagon driver side brackets, are ok.

Bosal isolators had increased in price but Rockauto.com price seems better now:

https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/volkswagen,198...acket,5804

Though untested, I repaired a Bosal isolator with construction adhesive.

For now, I'll live with the isolator as the sacrificial part. So far, no other parts of the exhaust I made are cracking or worse.

Neil.
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1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA

1988 West DIY 50º ABA

VE7TBN

[Vanagon Nut]

[?Waldo?]

I didn't mention in my prior post but an additional advantage to the added brackets and isolator on the passenger side is that now even if both of the isolators fail on that side the exhaust will not hang down. It might make a bit more noise, but the brackets will catch it from falling.

[82westyrabbit]

Hi Neil. I got tired of playing with the hanging the exsust off the engine game. I bought the FAS kit that hangs the muffler off the body. It has been on there 15000 miles at this point and I don’t see it failing anytime soon. It would be easy to fabricate something similar if you go that route. Just a thought. John

[Vanagon Nut]

Hey John.

Thanks for your reports on OE, DIY and FAS exhaust design experiences.

Does the FAS exhaust system add or reduce interior noise VS the OE exhaust design as used on the VW gas inline 4?

It appears ?Waldo? 4th isolator brackets can be added with minimal work to parts currently on the van. Very clever! Since my 50º ABA Vanagon using the 1.6 NA type exhaust bracket is my daily driver, I'll look into adding brackets, isolator, to that bracket.

Some years ago, spurred on by ?Waldo? suggestion or idea of 4th isolator, I made driver side DV type brackets for passenger side end of exhaust on the 15º ABA in my other Vanagon. Eventually, the upper arm failed. Undersized gussets, heavier 2.1 WBX muffler with at least 1/2 hanging out unsupported, were likely big factors behind the failure. If room allows, I'll properly gusset the new "top" ~ 45º plate to new vertical plate.

Neil.

On currently idle 15º ABA Vanagon. New brackets attached to old which in turn mounts to ABA accessory bracket.

view from opposite ends

underside of failed part of arm off upper isolator. Early work!

view from above where arm broke free

Looking at this design, work, makes me cringe now. The cat was moved to a different spot. Regardless, even now with 2 supports to muffler (not as shown), I'd never install a 2.1 size muffler again; it's too heavy, too long.

view of failed bracket, exhaust still mounted. Isolator did not fail IIRC

_________________
1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA

1988 West DIY 50º ABA

VE7TBN