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and the samba exspurts says it wouldent work...
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Onceler
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2021 8:51 pm    Post subject: Re: and the samba exspurts says it wouldent work... Reply with quote

I think there’s a decent sized market for these for ac VW’s and I like the plug and play aspect. However, I’d rather see Holley work with E red and develop a system specifically for air cooled vw’s that way there is one point of contact 5 years down the road, instead of 2 entities passing the buck, assuming there still are 2 entities still in existence. Also, dual itb’s with the plug and play would be the shite
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oprn
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 5:19 am    Post subject: Re: and the samba exspurts says it wouldent work... Reply with quote

Or a single TB set up with the injectors at the intake valve... like VW did... as an option to replace to stock system that we can no longer get parts for...
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Dan Ruddock
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 6:10 am    Post subject: Re: and the samba exspurts says it wouldent work... Reply with quote

Needs four injectors mounted in the end castings...........
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Lingwendil
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 6:11 am    Post subject: Re: and the samba exspurts says it wouldent work... Reply with quote

Yeah, end casting that are machined for injectors that arent super costly would be a great thing for us, but nobody seems to be interested enough to get the cost down due to low demand.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 6:19 am    Post subject: Re: and the samba exspurts says it wouldent work... Reply with quote

CB has their stock style injector end pieces back in stock. For the price they charge you can't mess with trying to build your own.
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TomSimon
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 6:33 am    Post subject: Re: and the samba exspurts says it wouldent work... Reply with quote

Eaallred wrote:
Cons:

If you enjoy tinkering with a carb and enjoy how mechanical it is, you'll loose all of that fun.




enough said, I'm out! Laughing

What would I do with my jetting skills? Cast them aside like yesterdays newspaper? Take up typewriter repairing? Laughing

I love stuff like this Eric, good to see you getting some ink, from Holley no less.

Just so I get this straight: Your (now full time) shop can take my vintage vw bus, bug, ghia, using your experience and vw knowledge build a reliable engine for me with fuel injection if I want, install it, fix all the other stupid crap that's wrong with it along the way (since you know air-cooled vws inside and out) with your first hand experience tune it on your chassis dyno, and send me down the road, is that right?

This can't be! Why it flys in the face of everything I've read from the keyboard expert internet parrots on Samba, that think you can argue your way through the vw hobby, instead of building and enjoying.

BTW, great to hang out with you and Allison on the salt in August, and seeing your single cab in person.

Now that you've completely ruined that single cab with modern fuel injection, what kind of oil are you going to ruin the camshaft with? Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing
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Eaallred
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 6:36 am    Post subject: Re: and the samba exspurts says it wouldent work... Reply with quote

Mario offers a nixe single TB EFI kit with injectors at the manifold.

http://thedubshop.com/single-throttle-body-fuel-injection-package-with-ignition-type-1/[/img]
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 6:43 am    Post subject: Re: and the samba exspurts says it wouldent work... Reply with quote

TomSimon wrote:

Now that you've completely ruined that single cab with modern fuel injection, what kind of oil are you going to ruin the camshaft with? Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing


Synthetic, of course! Lol

See you again in August, hopefully Memorial day though!
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mark tucker
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 9:23 am    Post subject: Re: and the samba exspurts says it wouldent work... Reply with quote

aint it amazing what you can do if you dont live in the dark ages. thanks Eric for the replies!! your first reply pretty much nails it. and is like I like it. "do it once, do it right ,be done and go have fun and forget about it." remember your vw does not know it is not a dodge viper, GT 40.

I installed a holly efi( first gen of them) long ago on a undrivable hodge podge of old race parts somebody had thrown togeather.massive heads small motor, made for 9000 rpm, The owner bought it like that, he had if for quite some time never getting to drive it due to the nature of the beast. so H brought it to us to tame it. with a few minor cnanges and the holly "bolt on" efi. it was a totally different beast. smooth idle, no fouled plugs no fuss joy to drive. and we his the tuner under the dash so nobody could eff with it. I was sold on them with just one install. Im sure 15-20 years have really improved them over that one we put on. I wish holly would make a afordable webber ida/idf bolt on kit or 2. and possiably the side drafts too.
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fl59bug
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 10:26 am    Post subject: Re: and the samba exspurts says it wouldent work... Reply with quote

Cusser wrote:
mark tucker wrote:
and the samba exspurts says it wouldent work...


Now how did I "just know" from the topic's title who had posted this ???????


Very Happy Very Happy
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EVfun
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 7:22 pm    Post subject: Re: and the samba exspurts says it wouldent work... Reply with quote

One thought about this is the price. As near as I can tell the next cheapest FI kit runs about $2900 vs. about $1900, other pros and cons aside.

Another thought is that this appears to be the only FI kit suitable for a single port engine.
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clonebug
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 7:50 pm    Post subject: Re: and the samba exspurts says it wouldent work... Reply with quote

What size was that single injector?????
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Take a good long look in the mirror and report back on what you see.


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Water/Alcohol Injection
Audi TT intercooler
Upgraded to MS3Pro-Evo
EcuMaster PMU16
ECUMaster ADU5 Digital Dash


http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=127936
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nsracing
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 9:09 pm    Post subject: Re: and the samba exspurts says it wouldent work... Reply with quote

Dan Ruddock wrote:
Needs four injectors mounted in the end castings...........


That is called port-injection. VW did port injection and double-fire systems. But the parts just dried up and people just went carb convertion.

If the TBI -throttle body injection works, why not. But it will still be double-fire. Unless somebody comes up w/ sequential-fire injection for the VW, we will be up to our devices.

I am fine w/ carburetors.
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raygreenwood
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 9:26 pm    Post subject: Re: and the samba exspurts says it wouldent work... Reply with quote

nsracing wrote:
Dan Ruddock wrote:
Needs four injectors mounted in the end castings...........


That is called port-injection. VW did port injection and double-fire systems. But the parts just dried up and people just went carb convertion.

If the TBI -throttle body injection works, why not. But it will still be double-fire. Unless somebody comes up w/ sequential-fire injection for the VW, we will be up to our devices.

I am fine w/ carburetors.


Nah...they didn't dry up (well injectors from Bosch did but SMP makes just as good now).

It was/is just a difficult system to work on.

I am not sure where the issue of people saying TBI does not work comes from. Maybe I missed something. If you are working on a dual port 1600 with 34 pict-3...and replace that pict with this...it will be as good (or better due to finer metering). Its just an electronic carb with downstream inputs. All good.

My issue with looking at it is that TB mounted injectors are never better than port injectors on a long manifold runner. Accuracy of tuning aside....you cannot tune around an airflow issue with fuel tuning. You get fallout in long runners. There will be losses.

But....I like the list of self tuning benefits. If you lose say...15% by slaving this onto a previously port injected system, stock displacement system with plenum.......just up the displacement. If simple trouble free running is what you care about...it should work great.

I think most people get hung up in the apples to apples comparison with TB to port injection. I know I do.

But in reality...if its carbs you are replacing...its a better carb by far.

Ray
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jberger
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 10:18 pm    Post subject: Re: and the samba exspurts says it wouldent work... Reply with quote

GM had "port" injection through the 80's. Carb body with an injector placed overhead where the throttle pump nozzle sits. Super cool mod for stock-ish builds. Just make it affordable.

J
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oprn
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2021 5:26 am    Post subject: Re: and the samba exspurts says it wouldent work... Reply with quote

EVfun wrote:
Another thought is that this appears to be the only FI kit suitable for a single port engine.

You are correct! It is the only SP FI option. That would be sweet!
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Alstrup
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2021 5:32 am    Post subject: Re: and the samba exspurts says it wouldent work... Reply with quote

Running "port" jet on a sgl port is no problem. You just need 2 injectors running double cycle. You will need to fabricate your own end casting of course.
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DeathBySnuSnu
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2021 10:28 am    Post subject: Re: and the samba exspurts says it wouldent work... Reply with quote

Eric.....I do not know you.....or your business.

I have been asked about the holley kit many times.
And you know how to modify it to work on vw.

Of course you know it's selling feature is it's auto tune. No knowledge required. Now that you have it working for vw I want to point people towards you as a source for a functional kit.

Please pm me a name or contact or business name......something to send people too.
I have been directly contacted and asked about the holley kit just in the past couple days.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2021 10:41 am    Post subject: Re: and the samba exspurts says it wouldent work... Reply with quote

Congrats Eric on both the business and the ariticle!
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mikedjames
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2021 12:17 pm    Post subject: Re: and the samba exspurts says it wouldent work... Reply with quote

I have one of the CIS K-Jet systems sitting in a box in my garage.

I am pretty sure that a set of four electrical injectors which I also have fit into the CIS injector holes in the end pieces of the manifold.

My thoughts are that the wonderful Bosch mechanical/steampunk metering valve assembly might be better replaced with an ECU.

Keep the centremount throttle body.
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