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Onceler Samba Member
Joined: May 28, 2010 Posts: 1646 Location: Indiana
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Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2021 8:51 pm Post subject: Re: and the samba exspurts says it wouldent work... |
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I think there’s a decent sized market for these for ac VW’s and I like the plug and play aspect. However, I’d rather see Holley work with E red and develop a system specifically for air cooled vw’s that way there is one point of contact 5 years down the road, instead of 2 entities passing the buck, assuming there still are 2 entities still in existence. Also, dual itb’s with the plug and play would be the shite _________________ 1972 Karmann Ghia |
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oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12704 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 5:19 am Post subject: Re: and the samba exspurts says it wouldent work... |
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Or a single TB set up with the injectors at the intake valve... like VW did... as an option to replace to stock system that we can no longer get parts for... _________________ We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age) |
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Dan Ruddock Samba Member
Joined: October 25, 2012 Posts: 3594 Location: Sarasota, in my adopted state of Florida
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Posted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 6:10 am Post subject: Re: and the samba exspurts says it wouldent work... |
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Needs four injectors mounted in the end castings........... |
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Lingwendil Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2009 Posts: 3988 Location: Antioch, California, a block from the hood
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clonebug Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2005 Posts: 4027 Location: NW Washington
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Posted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 6:19 am Post subject: Re: and the samba exspurts says it wouldent work... |
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CB has their stock style injector end pieces back in stock. For the price they charge you can't mess with trying to build your own. _________________
vwracerdave wrote: |
Take a good long look in the mirror and report back on what you see. |
Paul.H wrote: |
That one line on that chart is probably better info than you can get from this place in a month |
My Megasquirt Fuel Injection Turbo Buggy Build
Water/Alcohol Injection
Audi TT intercooler
Upgraded to MS3Pro-Evo
EcuMaster PMU16
ECUMaster ADU5 Digital Dash
http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=127936 |
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TomSimon Samba Member
Joined: January 13, 2004 Posts: 751
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Posted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 6:33 am Post subject: Re: and the samba exspurts says it wouldent work... |
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Eaallred wrote: |
Cons:
If you enjoy tinkering with a carb and enjoy how mechanical it is, you'll loose all of that fun.
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enough said, I'm out!
What would I do with my jetting skills? Cast them aside like yesterdays newspaper? Take up typewriter repairing?
I love stuff like this Eric, good to see you getting some ink, from Holley no less.
Just so I get this straight: Your (now full time) shop can take my vintage vw bus, bug, ghia, using your experience and vw knowledge build a reliable engine for me with fuel injection if I want, install it, fix all the other stupid crap that's wrong with it along the way (since you know air-cooled vws inside and out) with your first hand experience tune it on your chassis dyno, and send me down the road, is that right?
This can't be! Why it flys in the face of everything I've read from the keyboard expert internet parrots on Samba, that think you can argue your way through the vw hobby, instead of building and enjoying.
BTW, great to hang out with you and Allison on the salt in August, and seeing your single cab in person.
Now that you've completely ruined that single cab with modern fuel injection, what kind of oil are you going to ruin the camshaft with? _________________ 2-time NASA Pro Racing Champion, Bonneville 130 Club and 150 Club Memeber, BRS Pro Gas racer |
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Eaallred Samba Member
Joined: May 18, 2003 Posts: 5756 Location: West Valley City, Utah
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Eaallred Samba Member
Joined: May 18, 2003 Posts: 5756 Location: West Valley City, Utah
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Posted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 6:43 am Post subject: Re: and the samba exspurts says it wouldent work... |
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TomSimon wrote: |
Now that you've completely ruined that single cab with modern fuel injection, what kind of oil are you going to ruin the camshaft with? |
Synthetic, of course! Lol
See you again in August, hopefully Memorial day though! _________________ Eric Allred
You have to remember something: Everybody pities the weak; Jealousy you have to earn. |
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mark tucker Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009 Posts: 23937 Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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Posted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 9:23 am Post subject: Re: and the samba exspurts says it wouldent work... |
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aint it amazing what you can do if you dont live in the dark ages. thanks Eric for the replies!! your first reply pretty much nails it. and is like I like it. "do it once, do it right ,be done and go have fun and forget about it." remember your vw does not know it is not a dodge viper, GT 40.
I installed a holly efi( first gen of them) long ago on a undrivable hodge podge of old race parts somebody had thrown togeather.massive heads small motor, made for 9000 rpm, The owner bought it like that, he had if for quite some time never getting to drive it due to the nature of the beast. so H brought it to us to tame it. with a few minor cnanges and the holly "bolt on" efi. it was a totally different beast. smooth idle, no fouled plugs no fuss joy to drive. and we his the tuner under the dash so nobody could eff with it. I was sold on them with just one install. Im sure 15-20 years have really improved them over that one we put on. I wish holly would make a afordable webber ida/idf bolt on kit or 2. and possiably the side drafts too. |
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fl59bug Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2005 Posts: 1976 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 10:26 am Post subject: Re: and the samba exspurts says it wouldent work... |
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Cusser wrote: |
mark tucker wrote: |
and the samba exspurts says it wouldent work... |
Now how did I "just know" from the topic's title who had posted this ??????? |
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EVfun Samba Member
Joined: April 01, 2012 Posts: 5473 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 7:22 pm Post subject: Re: and the samba exspurts says it wouldent work... |
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One thought about this is the price. As near as I can tell the next cheapest FI kit runs about $2900 vs. about $1900, other pros and cons aside.
Another thought is that this appears to be the only FI kit suitable for a single port engine. _________________
Wildthings wrote: |
As a general rule, cheap parts are the most expensive parts you can buy. |
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clonebug Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2005 Posts: 4027 Location: NW Washington
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Posted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 7:50 pm Post subject: Re: and the samba exspurts says it wouldent work... |
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What size was that single injector????? _________________
vwracerdave wrote: |
Take a good long look in the mirror and report back on what you see. |
Paul.H wrote: |
That one line on that chart is probably better info than you can get from this place in a month |
My Megasquirt Fuel Injection Turbo Buggy Build
Water/Alcohol Injection
Audi TT intercooler
Upgraded to MS3Pro-Evo
EcuMaster PMU16
ECUMaster ADU5 Digital Dash
http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=127936 |
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nsracing Samba Member
Joined: November 16, 2003 Posts: 9461 Location: NOVA
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Posted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 9:09 pm Post subject: Re: and the samba exspurts says it wouldent work... |
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Dan Ruddock wrote: |
Needs four injectors mounted in the end castings........... |
That is called port-injection. VW did port injection and double-fire systems. But the parts just dried up and people just went carb convertion.
If the TBI -throttle body injection works, why not. But it will still be double-fire. Unless somebody comes up w/ sequential-fire injection for the VW, we will be up to our devices.
I am fine w/ carburetors. |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21510 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 9:26 pm Post subject: Re: and the samba exspurts says it wouldent work... |
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nsracing wrote: |
Dan Ruddock wrote: |
Needs four injectors mounted in the end castings........... |
That is called port-injection. VW did port injection and double-fire systems. But the parts just dried up and people just went carb convertion.
If the TBI -throttle body injection works, why not. But it will still be double-fire. Unless somebody comes up w/ sequential-fire injection for the VW, we will be up to our devices.
I am fine w/ carburetors. |
Nah...they didn't dry up (well injectors from Bosch did but SMP makes just as good now).
It was/is just a difficult system to work on.
I am not sure where the issue of people saying TBI does not work comes from. Maybe I missed something. If you are working on a dual port 1600 with 34 pict-3...and replace that pict with this...it will be as good (or better due to finer metering). Its just an electronic carb with downstream inputs. All good.
My issue with looking at it is that TB mounted injectors are never better than port injectors on a long manifold runner. Accuracy of tuning aside....you cannot tune around an airflow issue with fuel tuning. You get fallout in long runners. There will be losses.
But....I like the list of self tuning benefits. If you lose say...15% by slaving this onto a previously port injected system, stock displacement system with plenum.......just up the displacement. If simple trouble free running is what you care about...it should work great.
I think most people get hung up in the apples to apples comparison with TB to port injection. I know I do.
But in reality...if its carbs you are replacing...its a better carb by far.
Ray |
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jberger Samba Member
Joined: November 17, 2003 Posts: 2476
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Posted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 10:18 pm Post subject: Re: and the samba exspurts says it wouldent work... |
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GM had "port" injection through the 80's. Carb body with an injector placed overhead where the throttle pump nozzle sits. Super cool mod for stock-ish builds. Just make it affordable.
J |
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oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12704 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Sat Mar 27, 2021 5:26 am Post subject: Re: and the samba exspurts says it wouldent work... |
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EVfun wrote: |
Another thought is that this appears to be the only FI kit suitable for a single port engine. |
You are correct! It is the only SP FI option. That would be sweet! _________________ We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age) |
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Alstrup Samba Member
Joined: July 12, 2007 Posts: 7210 Location: Videbaek Denmark
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Posted: Sat Mar 27, 2021 5:32 am Post subject: Re: and the samba exspurts says it wouldent work... |
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Running "port" jet on a sgl port is no problem. You just need 2 injectors running double cycle. You will need to fabricate your own end casting of course. _________________ https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=435993 |
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DeathBySnuSnu Samba Member
Joined: August 25, 2012 Posts: 1183 Location: MS
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Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2021 10:28 am Post subject: Re: and the samba exspurts says it wouldent work... |
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Eric.....I do not know you.....or your business.
I have been asked about the holley kit many times.
And you know how to modify it to work on vw.
Of course you know it's selling feature is it's auto tune. No knowledge required. Now that you have it working for vw I want to point people towards you as a source for a functional kit.
Please pm me a name or contact or business name......something to send people too.
I have been directly contacted and asked about the holley kit just in the past couple days. _________________
modok wrote: |
And look at the SHAPE of the curves, just smooth, like gods own slingshot. . |
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74 Thing Samba Member
Joined: September 02, 2004 Posts: 7389
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Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2021 10:41 am Post subject: Re: and the samba exspurts says it wouldent work... |
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Congrats Eric on both the business and the ariticle! |
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mikedjames Samba Member
Joined: July 02, 2012 Posts: 2736 Location: Hamble, Hampshire, UK
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Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2021 12:17 pm Post subject: Re: and the samba exspurts says it wouldent work... |
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I have one of the CIS K-Jet systems sitting in a box in my garage.
I am pretty sure that a set of four electrical injectors which I also have fit into the CIS injector holes in the end pieces of the manifold.
My thoughts are that the wonderful Bosch mechanical/steampunk metering valve assembly might be better replaced with an ECU.
Keep the centremount throttle body. _________________ Ancient vehicles and vessels
1974 VW T2 : Devon Eurovette camper with 1641 DP T1 engine, Progressive carb, full flow oil cooler, EDIS crank timed ignition.
Engine 1: 40k miles (rocker shaft clip fell off), Engine 2: 30k miles (rebuild, dropped valve). Engine 3: a JK Preservation Parts "new" engine, aluminium case: 26k miles: new top end.
Gearbox rebuild 2021 by Bears.
1979 Westerly GK24 24 foot racer/cruiser yacht Forethought of Gosport.
1973 wooden Pacer sailing dinghy |
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