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evanfrucht Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2016 Posts: 2180 Location: Laurel Canyon, CA
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Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:13 pm Post subject: Re: Is line boring this case even an option? |
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I always trust rulers named Wrenches, just from experience. _________________ 1967 Bug ( the daily rod )
1964 Fury Wagon ( the pavement shredder ) |
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FreeBug Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2012 Posts: 4278 Location: deepest, darkest Switzerland
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Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:47 pm Post subject: Re: Is line boring this case even an option? |
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oprn wrote: |
Years ago Dad and I pulled an engine apart for parts and it had a BRASS #1 main bearing. Obviously hand made. Looked exactly like the real McCoy but solid brass! There was no extra end or axial play either so even though it looked odd it obviously worked! I wonder if it was because of a situation like this?
I think I still have it somewhere... it would be fun to measure it. |
Funny, that was exactly the kind of magic I was thinking of. |
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oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12632 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:41 am Post subject: Re: Is line boring this case even an option? |
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croSSeduP wrote: |
I'd NEVER reuse a case like that. It's not just that it's pounded out, you have to think of the reasons it's pounded that badly. Magnesium is not a sturdy material. If you overheat it too many times it will lose it's original rigidity because it's breaking down molecularly. In my world that case is junk. |
I see absolutely no evidence of overheating or abuse in those photos. It's my unprofessional opinion that that bearing was installed without a locating pin, sized wrong or the end play set wrong. Or a combination of all three. The rest of the bearing saddles show no evidence of stress. Heat usually takes out #2 as well or maybe even first. _________________ We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age) |
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Brian_e Samba Member
Joined: July 28, 2009 Posts: 3228 Location: Rapid City, SD
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Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:22 am Post subject: Re: Is line boring this case even an option? |
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Agreed. The rest of it doesn't look bad at all. Line bore the rest to 0.020", and do what it takes to make the #1 fit.
Brian _________________ www.type-emotorsports.com |
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mark tucker Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009 Posts: 23937 Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:58 am Post subject: Re: Is line boring this case even an option? |
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wow thats awesome!!! if it clears at the largest bearing size and the rest of the case checks out I see no reason other than it's not a aluminum case to use it. |
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Gonzaga13 Samba Member
Joined: February 14, 2018 Posts: 21
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Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 3:41 pm Post subject: Re: Is line boring this case even an option? |
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evanfrucht wrote: |
I always trust rulers named Wrenches, just from experience. |
wait until I break out my wrenches made by Ruler™ |
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spencerfvee Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2004 Posts: 3071
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Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 4:40 pm Post subject: Re: Is line boring this case even an option? |
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you want to use this case. you are going to have to find some one that has a line boring bar. that can handle that size line bore on your case . then try to find bearing lots of luck that . to me i dont think you can save that case . i hope you can find some one to help you out . spencerfvee |
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Gonzaga13 Samba Member
Joined: February 14, 2018 Posts: 21
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Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 6:58 pm Post subject: Re: Is line boring this case even an option? |
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modok wrote: |
Yep, thrust is.....gone
Possibly the calibration of that gradeschooler ruler may be due for re-certification, but it kinda looks like it WAS standard size. |
I've Graduated
I have some new photos with a proper measuring unit and I think I'm ok with the bore. I am little worried about that stretched out dowel pin hole. Any thoughts? Anybody have a cool, JB Weld/Duct Tape trick that (beside throw the case in the trash)?
A few others had commented that there may have been no dowel pin and it was spinning, however, I can confirm that there was a dowel pin and it is pretty hammered.
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Rome Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2004 Posts: 9602 Location: Pearl River, NY
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Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 7:35 pm Post subject: Re: Is line boring this case even an option? |
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For that egged-out dowel pin hole: https://socalautoparts.com/product/main-bearing-step-dowel-pin/
Bring that to your line-bore machinist, unless he already has one to sell you. When the case is bored for the big oversized #1 thrust bearing, the depth of the dowel pin hole effectively becomes shallower because case material is being skimmed off the top. If you insert this oversized pin (requires boring a larger hole), the machinist must check that the shoulder of the pin does not rise beyond the newly bored case surface, or else the bearing will not sit flush against the case there. All that needs to be done if this is found, is to skim/grind the bottom of the pin so that it sits deeper in its new hole. |
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vwracerdave Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2004 Posts: 15280 Location: Deep in the 405
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Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:56 pm Post subject: Re: Is line boring this case even an option? |
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That case is junk. Just because you can do something DOES NOT mean you should do something.
I personally will never use a case past the 2nd line bore or past the 1st thrust cut. _________________ 2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK
Featured in Dec. 2001 HOT VW's Magazine page 63
Watch my racing video's http://www.youtube.com/user/okvwracer/videos |
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GARRICK.CLARK Samba Member
Joined: June 30, 2012 Posts: 1267 Location: Lancashire UK
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Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:28 am Post subject: Re: Is line boring this case even an option? |
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Correct |
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spencerfvee Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2004 Posts: 3071
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Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2021 5:23 am Post subject: Re: Is line boring this case even an option? |
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vwracerdave wrote: |
That case is junk. Just because you can do something DOES NOT mean you should do something.
I personally will never use a case past the 2nd line bore or past the 1st thrust cut. |
......................................................................................................................dave some people only here what they want to hear. no matter what other people know wont work . i agree the case is junk he needs to move on and find a good used case for his build but dave he wont move on lol spencerfvee |
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oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12632 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2021 6:19 am Post subject: Re: Is line boring this case even an option? |
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To me saving it and making it work would be a challenge. Any bozo can throw out and buy new, the garbage dumps are full from the throw away and buy new attitude.
Sure there is a practical limit but this is a hobby not a business. If it costs the same to fix as buy new then you can sleep well knowing your money went to a fellow countryman and not a Chinese corporation. _________________ We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age) |
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oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12632 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2021 6:21 am Post subject: Re: Is line boring this case even an option? |
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vwracerdave wrote: |
That case is junk. Just because you can do something DOES NOT mean you should do something.
I personally will never use a case past the 2nd line bore or past the 1st thrust cut. |
We all have our personal hang ups... mine is unnecessary waste. _________________ We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age)
Last edited by oprn on Fri Apr 09, 2021 6:42 am; edited 1 time in total |
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raul arrese Samba Member
Joined: July 23, 2006 Posts: 1329 Location: miami florida
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Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2021 6:22 am Post subject: Re: Is line boring this case even an option? |
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Gonzaga13 wrote: |
modok wrote: |
Yep, thrust is.....gone
Possibly the calibration of that gradeschooler ruler may be due for re-certification, but it kinda looks like it WAS standard size. |
I've Graduated
I have some new photos with a proper measuring unit and I think I'm ok with the bore. I am little worried about that stretched out dowel pin hole. Any thoughts? Anybody have a cool, JB Weld/Duct Tape trick that (beside throw the case in the trash)?
A few others had commented that there may have been no dowel pin and it was spinning, however, I can confirm that there was a dowel pin and it is pretty hammered.
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JB weld is super cool stuff , yeah i think you should fill in the whole area and Re machine , should make a good race motor _________________ " Hot vw feature , may 2014 issue "
" 2013 Bug Jam class winner "
" Bug Jam best motor and best paint "
" 2013 Lakeland Classic Best of Show "
" 2014 Show and Shine , First in class "
"
Like my facebook https://www.facebook.com/pages/Raul-Arrese-custom-fabrication-and-performance/1832968110262608 |
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spencerfvee Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2004 Posts: 3071
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Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2021 7:22 am Post subject: Re: Is line boring this case even an option? |
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raul arrese wrote: |
Gonzaga13 wrote: |
modok wrote: |
Yep, thrust is.....gone
Possibly the calibration of that gradeschooler ruler may be due for re-certification, but it kinda looks like it WAS standard size. |
I've Graduated
I have some new photos with a proper measuring unit and I think I'm ok with the bore. I am little worried about that stretched out dowel pin hole. Any thoughts? Anybody have a cool, JB Weld/Duct Tape trick that (beside throw the case in the trash)?
A few others had commented that there may have been no dowel pin and it was spinning, however, I can confirm that there was a dowel pin and it is pretty hammered.
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JB weld is super cool stuff , yeah i think you should fill in the whole area and Re machine , should make a good race motor |
........................................................................................................................by the time you cut the main bearing and cut for the2.00mm over size thrust bearing you will be into the doll pin hole . spencerfvee |
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Brian_e Samba Member
Joined: July 28, 2009 Posts: 3228 Location: Rapid City, SD
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Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2021 8:47 am Post subject: Re: Is line boring this case even an option? |
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You need to take your calipers and measure across the most hammered out section of the bore, and measure the thinnest part of the thrust. This will tell you if there is enough material left, and what size it might need to go to.
Measure the other case half so the studs don't get in your way, and stand the calipers up 90deg so the ID fingers are right at the case parting line, and they are measuring the most hogged out area. Do the same with the #3 main also. Then you will know what size the other journals are.
For the dowel pin, clean it super good with brake cleaner and compressed air. then before you get it line bored, fill the pin hole with the original slow cure JB weld. Fill the hole full. When the case gets cut, it will make a perfect flush cut through the JB. Once the line bore is done, you can go back and re-drill your pin hole.
The only thing wrong with line boring a case to the 3rd and 4th sizes, is usually the guy doing the machine work. If the case is done correctly, and the bearings fit correctly, it will be no different then a STD/STD case. In your case, the other bores might still be standard size, just the #1 is FUBAR'ed.
Because I am able to do the machine work myself, and I am able to make the bearings fit correctly, I wouldn't hesitate for a minute line-boring it, and making a little ripper out of it. I did pretty much the same repair on my sweep the floor 1835, and it has been working great, and has plenty of oil pressure.
Brian _________________ www.type-emotorsports.com |
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esde Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2007 Posts: 5927 Location: central rust belt
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Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2021 10:04 am Post subject: Re: Is line boring this case even an option? |
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Brian_e wrote: |
Because I am able to do the machine work myself, and I am able to make the bearings fit correctly, I wouldn't hesitate for a minute line-boring it, and making a little ripper out of it. I did pretty much the same repair on my sweep the floor 1835, and it has been working great, and has plenty of oil pressure.
Brian |
Thats the biggest thing.
I have the tools and (occasionally) enough spare time to try fixing something that most others would have tossed. I'd rather fix it and save the 4-5-600 bucks spent on a new case for some other project. But not everyone has a boring bar, lathe, and mill. If you're paying someone else to fix it, you will probably quickly rack up a bill that equals the cost of a new case. You have to make a call.
But hey, if it was an otherwise decent running engine, I'd personally try to fix
it. I've seen a shim used to tighten up the thrust on an otherwise too far gone case, and it's been running with the shim for years. The guys got many thousands of miles out of an engine that everyone told him was toast.
SD _________________ modok wrote:
Bent cranks are silent but gather no moss. I mean, ah, something like that. |
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madmike Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2005 Posts: 5291 Location: Atlanta,Michigan
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Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 4:59 am Post subject: Re: Is line boring this case even an option? |
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That case would make a good bonfire _________________ 'Black Ice'Drag Buggy 'Turbo'
Rail Buggy 1915 turbo
76 Drag/Street bug 2180cc 'Turbo' 11:85 @113 mph"If I go any faster I'll burn up the Hamster" ,gets 28 mpg. also 10/09/22 11.90 @115 mph
"If I'm ever on Life Support,UNPLUG Me, Then Plug me back In see if that Works" |
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Alstrup Samba Member
Joined: July 12, 2007 Posts: 7181 Location: Videbaek Denmark
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Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 1:22 pm Post subject: Re: Is line boring this case even an option? |
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Comeon!
The trust is totally shot and will not even accept a 20 mm cut. (2nd. undersize)
It needs AT LEAST 3rd oversize to clear on the mains. A case that has been pounded that bad is almost certain to have cracks in the center main bearing saddle and possibly oither places too. I would also be surprised if the lifter bores are anything nearby acceptable.
Not worth saving IMHO. _________________ https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=435993 |
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