Author |
Message |
djkeev Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007 Posts: 32635 Location: Reading Pennsylvania
|
Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:22 pm Post subject: Too Much Oil Pressure!! |
|
|
My "refreshed" 2.1 has run well.
I installed an oil pressure gauge from the get go.
I started with a Dino 10/40 oil as a break in oil.
Oil pressures have been good..... very good actually.
12 psi or so at a hot idle and a little more than +10 lbs per 1000 rpm.
The gauge is a cheap SunPro that I had for some reason. Brand new but nothing of quality.
It is also a 100 psi scale and when you're reading down in the 10-20 range it was a guessing game half the time.
I ordered a JEGS digital unit. Nice gauge, it fits snuggly in my Brickwerks gauge pod too. (My VDO in the 86 was a sloppy fit)
I installed the JEGS gauge the other day but used the Sunpro sender and the pressures were right there where the SunPro pressures were.
I was happy.
Today I changed the engine oil and filter.
It is approaching 1000 miles and time to drop the Dino oil, past time actually.
I used the Typical Mann oil filter but with Summer coming I put in Shell Rotella 15/40.
While I was under there I pulled the SunPro sender to install the JEGS sender.
The sender is mounted in the GlowShift adapter plate.
As I disconnected the sender wire from the SunPro sender the electrical connection literally fell apart! Bits of plastic fell out and a small carriage bolt.
I screwed in the JEGS unit and ran a ground wire for this sending unit has a dedicated ground rather than just relying on the threads making ground.
I started it up,
Cold oil pressure 66 psi, not unusual.
Took off and after a few miles the pressures were still high. Upper 50’s low 60’s at cruising speeds ...... 2000-3000 rpm.
I went for quite a ride and at a hot idle .... 28 psi
37/38 psi at 2000 rpm
49/50 psi at 3000 rpm
Mid 50’s at 4000 rpm.
So........
either my pressure sender is crap, reading high
Or
My oil pressure with the 15/40 is sky high!
Most people would love to complain about high oil pressure!
It worries me. Is it really getting lubricated?
I have a jug of 10/40 on hand. I may drain the 15/40 into a clean container and pour in the 10/40, see what happens.
Sadly my mechanical gauge is in Pennsylvania. The ideal test is to screw it in and see what it says.
So....... I plan a drive to Pennsylvania Sunday.
What harm (if any) will the unusually high oil pressure (if it is really high and not a false reading) do to the engine?
I'm thinking none for these pressures are seen while running normally but at much lower rpms.
Dave _________________ Stop Dead Photo Links how to post photos
Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473
Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537
Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert |
|
Back to top |
|
|
MarkWard Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005 Posts: 17155 Location: Retired South Florida
|
Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:28 pm Post subject: Re: TOO MUCH OIL PRESSURE!! |
|
|
No harm. Maybe higher oil temps and pressure would drop. The relief valve will bleed off excess pressure. My AC is too cold. _________________ ☮️ |
|
Back to top |
|
|
valvecovergasket Samba Member
Joined: October 10, 2018 Posts: 1492 Location: pnw
|
Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:31 pm Post subject: Re: TOO MUCH OIL PRESSURE!! |
|
|
djkeev wrote: |
What harm (if any) will the unusually high oil pressure (if it is really high and not a false reading) do to the engine? |
my only experience is with losing a couple of oil pumps on the inline motors. youll know its too high when all of the oil comes out of the engine at the filter seal in about half a second.
(relief valve stuck closed)
otherwise i think youre in good shape. _________________ MegaSquirt resource - SpitfireEFI.com
gone, but not forgotten: '83 tdi westy - swap thread |
|
Back to top |
|
|
DanHoug Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2016 Posts: 4800 Location: Bemidji, MN
|
Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:46 pm Post subject: Re: TOO MUCH OIL PRESSURE!! |
|
|
i run 15-40 Rotella T4 and my pressure is a tad higher <nyah, nyah> at speed but slightly lower at idle (around 20). what's your oil temp?
i also run an oil cooler which accounts for the higher at speed OP. you're totally fine, stop bragging <grin>. _________________ -dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.
'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd
Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com |
|
Back to top |
|
|
djkeev Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007 Posts: 32635 Location: Reading Pennsylvania
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
djkeev Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007 Posts: 32635 Location: Reading Pennsylvania
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
dhaavers Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010 Posts: 7757 Location: NE MN (tinyurl.com/dhaaverslocation)
|
Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 4:20 pm Post subject: Re: TOO MUCH OIL PRESSURE!! |
|
|
So...all these high readings are on the JEGS digital gauge...???
- Dave _________________ 86 White Wolfsburg Westy Weekender
"The WonderVan"
<EDITED TO PROTECT INNOCENT PIXELS> |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50353
|
Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 4:31 pm Post subject: Re: TOO MUCH OIL PRESSURE!! |
|
|
For years with a factory new engine I ran 10w30 in the winter and 30wt during the summer. Never put a gauge on it though, but the oil light worked at expected. I later moved to running a 5w40 "diesel" oil, but over the last year many of these oils have dropped their rating for use with a gasoline engine.
Today on an engine with tight bearings I would be likely be running a synthetic 5w30 year around. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
AtlasShrugged Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2008 Posts: 1605 Location: Decatur, Ga. USA
|
Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 4:31 pm Post subject: Re: TOO MUCH OIL PRESSURE!! |
|
|
Find and use some Rotella 0w40, that should shave about 2 to 5 psi hot oil pressure _________________ 'Let's Go Brandon' |
|
Back to top |
|
|
djkeev Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007 Posts: 32635 Location: Reading Pennsylvania
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50353
|
Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 5:10 pm Post subject: Re: TOO MUCH OIL PRESSURE!! |
|
|
djkeev wrote: |
I do KNOW that 10w or 15w made little difference in the oil pressure.
I've changed the oil so much already, I just may pick up a jug of 0w and see how it reads.
Dave |
Lowering the first number will lower the cold oil pressure and lowering the second number will lower the hot oil pressure, though there is some grey area here.
As far as the effect up running too high an oil pressure, when the oil is going back to the pan through the relief valve the flow of oil to the bearings is reduced as is the cooling effect of the higher oil volume flowing through the bearings and being splashed around the crankcase. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
djkeev Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007 Posts: 32635 Location: Reading Pennsylvania
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50353
|
Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:17 am Post subject: Re: Too Much Oil Pressure!! |
|
|
djkeev wrote: |
Went fir another ride, the pressures are still high, really no difference between the 19w and 15w oils.
Looking at oil weight vs temperature charts, at my mean temperatures in the 40’s and 50’s there really shouldn't be a difference.
The lower numbers really come into play when it gets COLD outside!
In theory, (as I understand it) any multi weight should have the same viscosity at a given temperature above their low range.
Be it 0w, 5w, 10w or 15w ..... at 50° they should all be the same viscosity.
Dave |
The low numbers followed by the "W" are the cold cranking and cold pumping specificataions of the oil, for a 0W oil they are in the -40°C range IIRC. They are not the same as rating a straight weight oil at 40°C or 100°C.
Your internal temps on a hot engine aren't even close to 50°C or to 50°F for that matter and thus the 0w, 5w, 10w or 15w have little to no bearing on your hot oil pressure, as I said above it is the second number that affects hot oil pressure. VW specs an oil pressure of 29 psi at 80°C and 2000 rpm so should it would be less at 90 or 100°C and the same rpm. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
djkeev Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007 Posts: 32635 Location: Reading Pennsylvania
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
djkeev Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007 Posts: 32635 Location: Reading Pennsylvania
|
Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:36 pm Post subject: Re: Too Much Oil Pressure!! |
|
|
It was a BEAUTIFUL day in the neighborhood!
I crawled under and pulled a plug on my GlowShift plate and screwed in my mechanical gauge.
Now I have a third set of numbers!
At idle the JEGS gauge is reading about 12psi higher than my mechanical gauge.
At higher RPM's, about 3,000 the JEGS gauge difference is much small, 6-7 psi higher than the mechanical gauge.
None the less, I have adequate oil pressure even if I subtract 15 off of every number!
But, is the mechanical gauge correct!?
Who knows...... three gauges, three different numbers all of which say I have good oil pressure.
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing!
I'll be contacting JEGS and see what they have to say.
When I removed the mechanical gauge I screwed a temperature sender into the outlet.
I'll be able to see what my oil temperatures are.
Dave _________________ Stop Dead Photo Links how to post photos
Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473
Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537
Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert |
|
Back to top |
|
|
DanHoug Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2016 Posts: 4800 Location: Bemidji, MN
|
Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:58 pm Post subject: Re: Too Much Oil Pressure!! |
|
|
nothing worse than 3 variate data points. bottom line is your OP is fine and now you just need to watch trends.
of course, i'll be cruising around with my accurate vintage VDO sender and matched gauge, both made in Germany, while you don't know which end is up. <evil grin> _________________ -dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.
'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd
Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com |
|
Back to top |
|
|
MarkWard Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005 Posts: 17155 Location: Retired South Florida
|
Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:00 pm Post subject: Re: Too Much Oil Pressure!! |
|
|
I’ve had good service from Autometer gauges in my race car. The actual value is not so important. It’s repeatability and the ability to show a sudden loss of pressure. _________________ ☮️ |
|
Back to top |
|
|
djkeev Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007 Posts: 32635 Location: Reading Pennsylvania
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
djkeev Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007 Posts: 32635 Location: Reading Pennsylvania
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
valvecovergasket Samba Member
Joined: October 10, 2018 Posts: 1492 Location: pnw
|
Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 9:03 am Post subject: Re: Too Much Oil Pressure!! |
|
|
djkeev wrote: |
I wonder if the SunPro sender was giving false readings without having a good ground?
For a test I'm going to wire the SunPro gauge to the JEGS sender. Just curious about the non mechanical senders.
|
yeah was just going to comment that you might want to ensure that all the gauges are powered off the same source - or at least getting roughly similar input voltage stuff at the dash can be pretty variable unless youve confirmed theyre close - and grounded properly, including the senders.
is the sender range the same on the sunpro? _________________ MegaSquirt resource - SpitfireEFI.com
gone, but not forgotten: '83 tdi westy - swap thread
Last edited by valvecovergasket on Wed Apr 14, 2021 9:15 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|